Josh Harris's 'Sex Isn't The Problem (Lust Is)'

[JaChelle Sugar]

Chapter 4 part 1

You have to have a plan for erasing lust. My friend Andrew's plan is refusing to enter video stores so he can't see 'the explicit covers of many videos'. Me, I went in and rented a movie that was *gasp* PG-13, blushing and hoping that nobody from church would see me.

You have to have a plan to defend yourself from lust but also to protect yourself from it. 'Sensual images on TV' is just as bad as internet porn. Having an everything-but relationship with your boyfriend is as bad as masturbating. All of these are lusts. Oh and it's lust to desire someone to desire you. 'Sin decieves us into feeling safe. Often those who feel the safest are the most at risk'.There's no one-size-fit's-all approach to eliminating lust, you need a custom made plan. That won't stop me from generalizing though.

Identify your 'lust triggers'. 'Certain seemingly insignificant sinful compromises can build up in my system'. So, you have to prevent even the smallest hint of temptation!

In times when I"m tempted, I'll say to myself, Don't pack a lunch for lust!

Lust triggers can include times of day (bathroom time is a big one),

locations: Video stores, parts of town 'where there's more chance of seeing immodestly dressed men or women',

the mall, friends houses,

the beach--in fact there was one time I stopped going to a beach because women wearing bikinis were there!),

television: sex scenes! immodesty! commercials containing sex or immodesty! CJ Mahaney says 'nothing he might miss is worth exposing himself to lustful images'. That's right, even a split second of cleavage is dangerous to your soul! My friend Joes refuses to watch TV by himself if his wife Esther isn't there.

newspapers and magazines: even without sexy photos, reading about celebrities can stir up lust! Articles that minimize sin!

and let's not forget music! Music is scary. 'So much of today's music celebrates and encourages lust. ...The lyrics alone can encourage wrong desires.

books: ladies! romance novels are lustful! it's porn for women! Scenes of illicit passion! Impure desires! Repent!

internet: porn, porn and more porn. And most everything else. Cat pictures probably encourage lust. Oh and stay away from things that while they might not be pornographic, might, 'excite sinful desire in your heart'.

the mailbox: here's a story about a scary lingerie catalog i found in the mail. I wanted to look at it so I threw it away, never thinking it might be my wife's.

in public: checking out hot guys and girls is lust! Or temptation to lust which is almost as bad!

[polecat]

Lust triggers can include times of day (bathroom time is a big one),

Bathroom time is lusty? Kinky.

[Trynn]

Gosh, he makes the whole world sound scary!

[quincygal]

Bathroom time is lusty? Kinky.

Dude how is that a lusty time? I'm either in the ladies' room at work, or have my 2 yr old following me into the bathroom/banging on the door. It's not sexy. What is he talking about???

Totally going to think about this when I'm in the ladies' room at work tomorrow, lol!!!

[ILoveJellybeans]

Im guessing because he is alone and holding his penis while he pees? Too much temptation for him to start playing with himself.

[salex]

Im guessing because he is alone and holding his penis while he pees? Too much temptation for him to start playing with himself.

If these guys can't shop, go to restaurants, watch a pg movie, go to the beach, watch tv or even pee with the door closed without being tempted to "lust" then what remarkable horndogs they are--everything is dirty to them. Secondly, I suspect that if they are that on the edge all the time that they would last about 90 seconds in the sack. Is it patriotic if they are minutemen?

[debrand]

If these guys can't shop, go to restaurants, watch a pg movie, go to the beach, watch tv or even pee with the door closed without being tempted to "lust" then what remarkable horndogs they are--everything is dirty to them. Secondly, I suspect that if they are that on the edge all the time that they would last about 90 seconds in the sack. Is it patriotic if they are minutemen?

Exactly. Some people masturbate if they are very horny and alone to release some sexual tension or maybe they allow themselves to engage in a casual fantasy. The result, ironically, is that most of us don't spend every waking moment thinking sexy thoughts.

Have you ever gotten an annoying song in your head? The more you try not to think about it, the longer it stays in your brain. For me, the only way to get rid of that mind song is to sing it a couple of times. Once I no longer try to not think about something, my brain lets go of the thought. By trying to not think sexy thoughts, Harris is actually making it more likely that he will think about sex.

Right wing and fundamentalist Christians all claim that they aren't legalistic and yet, they are. It is astonishing the amount of denial they employ to deny that they follow a bunch of harmful, illogical laws.

[debrand]

Bathroom time is lusty? Kinky.

Golden showers? Well, I guess if his wife is willing....

Let me tell you a true story of Raynald III. The important thing about this story is that he unable to escape his prison because he was too fat. Anti-sex rhetoric and fat-shaming go together like fava beans and chianti, amirite? Fat people could lose weight if they would just stop all that damn eating, and so could Raynald but he didn't! Lust makes you spiritually fat and imprisons you and you can't save yourselves anymore than Raynald could! Even though I just told you Raynald could if he'd just had some damn self-control.

Fat shaming? Does he really not understand how terrible that this sounds?

[ari_belle]

'So much of today's music celebrates and encourages lust. ...The lyrics alone can encourage wrong desires.

I'd love for him to hear some Lady Gaga right about now. "Let's have some fun, this beat is sick, I wanna take a ride on your disco stick."

And re: the bathroom, these fundies must NEVER WASH THEIR GENITALS if they think touching them at all is borderline masturbation. gross....

[JesusFightClub]

If these guys can't shop, go to restaurants, watch a pg movie, go to the beach, watch tv or even pee with the door closed without being tempted to "lust" then what remarkable horndogs they are--everything is dirty to them. Secondly, I suspect that if they are that on the edge all the time that they would last about 90 seconds in the sack. Is it patriotic if they are minutemen?

:lol:

And yeah, what? If one does get an uncomfortable thought at any time, mature adults just think about something else. They don't start beating themselves up mentally for the sin of lust.

[JaChelle Sugar]

Golden showers? Well, I guess if his wife is willing....

Fat shaming? Does he really not understand how terrible that this sounds?

Harris has the sense to not actually say 'fat shaming', that was me paraphrasing. It was totally fat shaming though.

Updates on further chapters is delayed because dammit I lost the book.

[LynnGrey]

I taught a course on Human Sexuality at my small Christian college last Spring. Harris is big there, though starting to face backlash among students who are older and/or have had more life experience. We, understandably, discussed lust and lust-related issues a great deal in the course, particularly masturbation. I--after clearly stating that my opinions were my own and not necessarily those of the college or denomination--spoke against lust being treated as a one-size-fits-all kind of sin. I argued that to do so is to reduce varied creations of God to automatons. I then said that what is lustful for one person may not be so for another, and that most of life exists in those grayer areas; we must use faith and God-given discernment to discover what lines we feel we ought not cross, and we must strive not to judge those who have different lines than we do, but instead to respect them as fellow creations. It was tough for some of my students, even those who freely admit that they feel they were created as sexual and relational beings, to hear this from an authority figure. They were used to blanket, easy prohibitions. One of them said, "Professor [My name], I had so many questions when we started this class, and now I have even more, but I think that's good." That was a great day for me.

TL;DR: Lust isn't the problem (Legalism is)

I wish I would have had a professor challenge us the way you did at the bible college I went to. I could tell that some professors held views like yours, but the student body and the administration was not ready to hear it. There were some things that were so unanimously accepted as clear right and wrongs, and masturbation/lust was definitely wrong. To challenge the idea would be admitting your own guilt.

It wasn't until years after leaving that environment and learning to embrace the gray areas in life that it dawned on me how ridiculous it is to expect all humans to be asexual creatures until marriage, when God created us to be quite the opposite.

Edited for clarity and transitions.

[Anise]

You beat me to it. I was going to say that sounded like something Hunter S. Thompson would have written.

It's a reference to The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis.

I saw coming towards us a Ghost who carried something on his shoulder. Like all the Ghosts, he was unsubstantial, but they differed from one another as smokes differ. Some had been whitish; this one was dark and oily. What sat on his shoulder was a little red lizard, and it was twitching its tail like a whip and whispering things in his ear. As we caught sight of him he turned his head to the reptile with a snarl of impatience. "Shut up, I tell you!" he said. It wagged its tail and continued to whisper to him. He ceased snarling, and presently began to smile. Then he turned and started to limp westward, away from the mountains.

"Off so soon?" said a voice.

The speaker was more or less human in shape but larger than a man, and so bright that I could hardly look at him. His presence smote on my eyes and on my body too (for there was heat coming from him as well as light) like the morning sun at the beginning of a tyrannous summer day.

"Yes. I'm off," said the Ghost. "Thanks for all your hospitality. But it's no good, you see.

I told this little chap," (here he indicated the lizard), "that he'd have to be quiet if he came -which he insisted on doing. Of course his stuff won't do here: I realise that. But he won't stop. I shall just have to go home."

[long conversation about whether to kill the lizard]

For a moment I could make out nothing distinctly. Then I saw, between me and the nearest bush, unmistakably solid but growing every moment solider, the upper arm and the shoulder of a man. Then, brighter still and stronger, the legs and hands. The neck and golden head materialised while I watched, and if my attention had not wavered I should have seen the actual completing of a man-an immense man, naked, not much smaller than the Angel. What distracted me was the fact that at the same moment something seemed to be happening to the Lizard. At first I thought the operation had failed. So far from dying, the creature was still struggling and even growing bigger as it struggled. And as it grew it changed. Its hinder parts grew rounder. The tail, still flickering, became a tail of hair that flickered between huge and glossy buttocks. Suddenly I started back, rubbing my eyes. What stood before me was the greatest stallion I have ever seen, silvery white but with mane and tail of gold. It was smooth and shining, rippled with swells of flesh and muscle, whinneying and stamping with its hoofs. At each stamp the land shook and the trees dindled .

The new-made man turned and clapped the new horse's neck. It nosed his bright body. Horse and master breathed each into the other's nostrils. The man turned from it, flung himself at the feet of the Burning One, and embraced them. When he rose I thought his face shone with tears, but it may have been only the liquid love and brightness (one cannot distinguish them in that country) which flowed from him. I had not long to think about it. In joyous haste the young man leaped upon the horse's back. Turning in his seat he waved a farewell, then nudged the stallion with his heels. They were off before I well knew what was happening. There was riding if you like! I came out as quickly as I could from among the bushes to follow them with my eyes; but already they were only like a shooting star far off on the green plain, and soon among the foothills of the mountains. Then, still like a star, I saw them winding up, scaling what seemed impossible steeps, and quicker every moment, till near the dim brow of the landscape, so high that I must strain my neck to see them, they vanished, bright themselves, into the rose-brightness of that everlasting morning.

Apparently, many Christians interpret the lizard as being lust.

new-life.net/growth/our-flesh/the-red-lizard-of-lust

summitrdu.onthecity.org/plaza/topics/030cc453aa057ead83c23d5914a60790fdcdca10

[JaChelle Sugar]

Still haven't found my copy of the book yet but thanks to 'book preview' feature on certain online retailers I can read some of the book anyway. It only took me almost a month to think of it. :lol:

Chapter 4 part 2

One last lust trigger to watch out for: being in public. Especially in summer! The sidewalk is probably your safest bet. My friend Bob (I have lots and lots of friends) will only look at the sidewalk in summer. Except 'immodestly dressed men and women are always going to be around us.' Make sure not to look or feel tempted to lust. 'A girl named Tatiana told me how God showed her that her 'harmless' pastime of checking out guys was really a dangerous hobby, fueled by lust. Despite everything I just said, don't feel overwhelmed, just take one step at a time! Pray and repent, repent and pray, prepent and ray! But don't ever relax your standards--compromise adds up! Pray, 'fight the little battles, flee temptation.'

Up next, Gender Essentialism 101 in chapter 5!

[salex]

Still haven't found my copy of the book yet but thanks to 'book preview' feature on certain online retailers I can read some of the book anyway. It only took me almost a month to think of it. :lol:

Chapter 4 part 2

One last lust trigger to watch out for: being in public. Especially in summer! The sidewalk is probably your safest bet. My friend Bob (I have lots and lots of friends) will only look at the sidewalk in summer. Except 'immodestly dressed men and women are always going to be around us.' Make sure not to look or feel tempted to lust. 'A girl named Tatiana told me how God showed her that her 'harmless' pastime of checking out guys was really a dangerous hobby, fueled by lust. Despite everything I just said, don't feel overwhelmed, just take one step at a time! Pray and repent, repent and pray, prepent and ray! But don't ever relax your standards--compromise adds up! Pray, 'fight the little battles, flee temptation.'

Up next, Gender Essentialism 101 in chapter 5!

I guess he'd disapprove of this then....

[lemonhead]

It's ok to have a sex drive just so long as you dutifully squelch it until marriage (unless you're gay, then you're fucked either way, pun intended).

Hey, I wouldn't mind getting fucked either way :whistle:

I am so glad that Josh Harris wasn't yet a big thing in our fundy circle when I was a teenager. It was 1990 and I was about 15 when I first heard of a "purity promise" at a teen conference. I disagree with about 99.9% of James Dobson says, but I do remember reading his "Preparing for Adolescence" secretly at night and how he wrote that the Bible was silent on the topic of masturbation, and feeling relieved. What with the creepy pedophile neighbor next door, masturbation was only one of my smaller sexual problems, but thanks to Dobson it was one less thing for me to worry about. My teenage years would have been so much more difficult under Harris's teachings.