Where Have All The Good Men Gone?

[fun2beme]

As a pregnant woman on the Boston subway I once had to sit down on the floor because I was sick and no one offered their seat to me. Then I got in the habit of just asking people to move. It had a 100% success rate.

People in Boston def have better manners than those in DC! I have unfortunately seen men refuse to give up their seats to pregnant ladies who asked. Few and far between, of course, but disturbing nonetheless. Fundies would be passing out right and left here!

[ari_belle]

I hear about feminists mocking or verbally attacking men who open doors for them a lot. Has anyone ever actually done this? Anywhere?

Never! Hell, I do it for men.

[bananacat]

I hear about feminists mocking or verbally attacking men who open doors for them a lot. Has anyone ever actually done this? Anywhere?

One time I got slightly annoyed and rolled my eyes when someone several yards away decided to hold the door until I got there and I was too tired to rush so it was super awkward for those moments until I reached the door. Does that count?

[bananacat]

For those of you that are lamenting that a seat was not offered to you, did you ever consider asking? Complete strangers can't read your mind, but probably at least one of them would have given you a seat if you had requested it.

[bananacat]

Here's what I don't get. Fundies expect a woman to be a SAHM. During the course of the day while her husband is out bread-winning, she will open countless doors in her own house, often while juggling a load of laundry, a baby, or groceries. But when she's in public where the man will get social credit for it, suddenly it's his job to open doors? Odd that it's only the man's responsibility when others will see him doing this.

[Dinaberries]

Here's what I don't get. Fundies expect a woman to be a SAHM. During the course of the day while her husband is out bread-winning, she will open countless doors in her own house, often while juggling a load of laundry, a baby, or groceries. But when she's in public where the man will get social credit for it, suddenly it's his job to open doors? Odd that it's only the man's responsibility when others will see him doing this.

My ex wasn't really fundie. He was sort of wannabe trad Catholic but only from a stand point of it being cultural and traditional since he was actually an atheist. Anyway, he always wanted me to pay for everything privately and never did any "chivalrous" things for me when we were alone, but publicly, he made a big show of getting flowers for me and holding doors open for me, etc., and would insist that when I paid for things in public, that I give him cash so he could look like he we as paying. What a winner.

Also, sometimes people on public transport are just assholes. I have been pushed and shoved while visibly pregnant on the Sydney trains and nobody ever stood up for me so I doubt those same people would give their seats up for me if I asked them. But to be fair, I can't be sure since I never asked. Not that anyone ever offered, but I was always too scared of pissing people off.

[Savoring Samsara]

Where have all the good men gone

Long time passing

Where have all the good men gone

Long time ago

Alternatively, this was my instant earworm upon seeing this thread title:

Where have all the good men gone

And where are all the gods?

Where's the street-wise Hercules

To fight the rising odds?

Isn't there a white knight upon a fiery steed?

Late at night I toss and I turn and I dream of what I need

dLNCX84-kfA

edit: fucking beaten

[OkToBeTakei]

Here's what I don't get. Fundies expect a woman to be a SAHM. During the course of the day while her husband is out bread-winning, she will open countless doors in her own house, often while juggling a load of laundry, a baby, or groceries. But when she's in public where the man will get social credit for it, suddenly it's his job to open doors? Odd that it's only the man's responsibility when others will see him doing this.

HUH? If he is out working how the fuck is he supposed to open the door?

ANYWAY.

Males in my family/friends do it in both private and public. Sure I suppose some folk do it for show. I never get the whole men having manners thing attacks your feminist thing. If your feminist thing is so fragile it needs a right good looking at. I'm quite bloody happy for anybody to open a door for me, if it saves me doing it. Their motive is of little interest. I hold the door open for the elderly (how Maxwell of me :lol: ) I give up my seat for anybody I think may need it more than me at that moment regardless of sex. I hold the door open for people with prams, for anybody regardless of age or sex if they have armfuls of bags. etc. etc.

As somebody said it is just manners and respect. My nephews, nieces and my child despite being wee toe-rags at times have really sweet manners especially with their grand-parents and I just think it is a part of life that does not need to become some fecking 'feminist' or hyper battle of the sexes issue.

I think not teaching respect and or manners is what causes the selfish twats on public transport acting like selfish twats.

If somebody rolled their eyes at me for holding open the door for them. I would make sure it hit them on the face, accidentally of course :D :lol:

[dairyfreelife]

My point was that chivalry can get awkward sometimes and also that when I think about, it's a bit disrespectful to not take someone's word that they are fine, thanks and make them do it anyway when it's unnecessary.

One thing I have noticed though is that in general, society still expects men to do those little things like pay, hold open doors and such. With most of the men I know, they feel if they don't do those things, others will see them as assholes, especially when they don't pay and I have heard women still complain if they see a woman pay for a meal. It's going to take more realization that it's okay for women to pay too because women have jobs nowadays unlike in the past. The notion is still stuck in many people's heads and many boys are still taught from a young age that that's what you do.

[Jinger Jar]

My point was that chivalry can get awkward sometimes and also that when I think about, it's a bit disrespectful to not take someone's word that they are fine, thanks and make them do it anyway when it's unnecessary.

One thing I have noticed though is that in general, society still expects men to do those little things like pay, hold open doors and such. With most of the men I know, they feel if they don't do those things, others will see them as assholes, especially when they don't pay and I have heard women still complain if they see a woman pay for a meal. It's going to take more realization that it's okay for women to pay too because women have jobs nowadays unlike in the past. The notion is still stuck in many people's heads and many boys are still taught from a young age that that's what you do.

Those women who complain when they see me pay for my husband's meal, movie ticket, or Apple store purchase can go pound sand in the hot sun. It's my money that I earned from my job, the credit card is in my name, I pay the bill each and every month, and I can do as I wish. If I want to treat my wonderful husband to dinner at his favorite sushi restaurant, or replace his ear buds so he can better listen to his favorite podcasts, I can and I will.

When those women start contributing financially to my household, they can start telling me how and on whom I can spend my money. Until then, they can keep their damned mouthes shut.

[acheronbeach]

Poor Bria Crawford. That girl is dumber than a box of rocks, but I get the feeling she thinks she's cultivated and intellectual.

[salex]

My point was that chivalry can get awkward sometimes and also that when I think about, it's a bit disrespectful to not take someone's word that they are fine, thanks and make them do it anyway when it's unnecessary.

One thing I have noticed though is that in general, society still expects men to do those little things like pay, hold open doors and such. With most of the men I know, they feel if they don't do those things, others will see them as assholes, especially when they don't pay and I have heard women still complain if they see a woman pay for a meal. It's going to take more realization that it's okay for women to pay too because women have jobs nowadays unlike in the past. The notion is still stuck in many people's heads and many boys are still taught from a young age that that's what you do.

I must be screaming nonself aware, as at least half or more of the time when we go out, I pay... for meals, for purchases, etc. Not always, but much of the time. I am a bit bemused that people pay any attention at all to who pays in most instances in the world.. who has time to watch that kind of stuff?

I am a member of a women's organization that was started 33 years ago, specificall as a club where women could take male clients and business associates and always know the woman would get the bill. It also was set up to be much like the men's clubs of the day, where, when one of our founding members (a bank president who was known nationally) was invited to an event there, she had to enter via the kitchen. I foolishly had thought the days of waiters handing the man the check were long gone. Apparently I was wrong.

[OkToBeTakei]

Yes. Have to say I pay no attention to who pays for a meal. Must live under a rock. I suppose those that do notice are the ones who are looking and therefore have some kind of invested reason. I just eat.

[kaetrin]

Poor Bria Crawford. That girl is dumber than a box of rocks, but I get the feeling she thinks she's cultivated and intellectual.

Oh, I didn't realize this was from Bria so I just went and refreshed my memory on her movie/book reviews. (At least she's taken the tortured Latin out of her blog title.) They all basically seem to consist of confused summary, disjointed fundie cliches, a fuzzy conclusion, and a checklist assessment of the book/movie's suitability for, I guess, a 7-year-old or so. She is a step up from Miss Raquel -- a notable absence of squeeing -- but she still needs to read some actual critical book reviews if she wants to engage in this sort of project thoughtfully.

She categorizes as "mild indecency" the fact that a history book on the Renaissance and Reformation mentioned some adultery among royal families at the time. A "kiss or two" in a movie also gets it an "indecency" mention. I think she should change the name of the category to "any acknowledgement that sex/romance exists."

[acheronbeach]

From her review of The Bourne Legacy:

Everything has a worldview ingrained in it. Every form of art has a message. And lately I haven't watched a movie without questioning the message it sends.

I busted a gut at this one. Marshall McLuhan better watch out...

[dairyfreelife]

Those women who complain when they see me pay for my husband's meal, movie ticket, or Apple store purchase can go pound sand in the hot sun. It's my money that I earned from my job, the credit card is in my name, I pay the bill each and every month, and I can do as I wish. If I want to treat my wonderful husband to dinner at his favorite sushi restaurant, or replace his ear buds so he can better listen to his favorite podcasts, I can and I will.

When those women start contributing financially to my household, they can start telling me how and on whom I can spend my money. Until then, they can keep their damned mouthes shut.

And that's the point. There's nothing wrong with it. People are still being taught that it's wrong and still shaming men who don't pay because we still, as a whole, have it stuck in our heads as a society that men must pay. In the past, I can see how this made sense. Women didn't have jobs and if they did, they were often low-paying, low-skill jobs. Men, more often than not, made a lot more money, so if they went out on a date, it made sense that he would pay since he would have the money to pay. Now that women have jobs and have jobs with similar pay or even higher pay than the man, it doesn't make sense. But like all things, people don't like change and fight it. They are behind the times and are slow and/or unwilling to make those changes.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I would much, MUCH rather that we, as a society, focused on young people giving up their seats for the elderly and disabled (and, yes, pregnant women too) than on opening doors and giving up seats for all vagina-having humans because of our perceived frailty. There's not many things I like about Russian social mores (which I am bringing up because I'm from there and am also a Slavist), but I like the fact that children are taught from a young age to politely offer their seats when appropriate and that you will definitely get told off if you don't offer your seat to a Babushka. :) (Babushkas - grandmas - are VERY IMPORTANT. :lol:)

I was once on the Boston subway when a Russian babushka with a cane got on a crowded car. She just pointed at the first two seats she saw with her cane and grunted, and the two terrified college girls bolted. She sat down with her friend and remarked loudly, in Russian, "Don't act like you don't see me!" IT WAS AWESOME.

[bananacat]

HUH? If he is out working how the fuck is he supposed to open the door?

ANYWAY.

Males in my family/friends do it in both private and public. Sure I suppose some folk do it for show. I never get the whole men having manners thing attacks your feminist thing. If your feminist thing is so fragile it needs a right good looking at. I'm quite bloody happy for anybody to open a door for me, if it saves me doing it. Their motive is of little interest. I hold the door open for the elderly (how Maxwell of me :lol: ) I give up my seat for anybody I think may need it more than me at that moment regardless of sex. I hold the door open for people with prams, for anybody regardless of age or sex if they have armfuls of bags. etc. etc.

As somebody said it is just manners and respect. My nephews, nieces and my child despite being wee toe-rags at times have really sweet manners especially with their grand-parents and I just think it is a part of life that does not need to become some fecking 'feminist' or hyper battle of the sexes issue.

I think not teaching respect and or manners is what causes the selfish twats on public transport acting like selfish twats.

If somebody rolled their eyes at me for holding open the door for them. I would make sure it hit them on the face, accidentally of course :D :lol:

I think you missed my point a little bit. Clearly women are perfectly capable of opening doors, and do so frequently every day. It seems they are just as capable as men in the door-opening department. So why do they need men to do it at all? And why is that time when it's needed coincidentally when they are in public?

But why do only the males in your family hold open doors? That doesn't make any sense and it has nothing to do with feminist pride or anything. Why is it good manners for men to do it but not for women to do it?

Personally, I think it's good manners to not expect a man to hold a door for me when my arms are empty. What is the point then?

Holding doors for people who need/want it is good manners. Holding it because of being male is just quite silly.

And for that matter, it's not good manners at all to hold a door when someone doesn't want it. This is especially true of people with disabilities who have sometimes found ways to do things and you standing there can actually interfere. The best thing to do is offer it to someone, and then if they refuse, to respect their answer and just move on with your life. There are plenty of times when you think you're being helpful but are in fact being the opposite.

[OkToBeTakei]

I think you missed my point a little bit. Clearly women are perfectly capable of opening doors, and do so frequently every day. It seems they are just as capable as men in the door-opening department. So why do they need men to do it at all? And why is that time when it's needed coincidentally when they are in public?

But why do only the males in your family hold open doors? That doesn't make any sense and it has nothing to do with feminist pride or anything. Why is it good manners for men to do it but not for women to do it?

Personally, I think it's good manners to not expect a man to hold a door for me when my arms are empty. What is the point then?

Holding doors for people who need/want it is good manners. Holding it because of being male is just quite silly.

And for that matter, it's not good manners at all to hold a door when someone doesn't want it. This is especially true of people with disabilities who have sometimes found ways to do things and you standing there can actually interfere. The best thing to do is offer it to someone, and then if they refuse, to respect their answer and just move on with your life. There are plenty of times when you think you're being helpful but are in fact being the opposite.

Why is it not ok if is just seen as manners? Sure it is an old male chivalry, type thing. But why does EVERY time a male hold open a door have to be a fricking feminist issue? Most blokes holding open the door are doing it because their FEMALE mothers probably told them so. I highly doubt that every bloke who holds open a door is thinking male powerful over female thoughts. Not to be sympathetic, but most guys are human like females and do not wish to offend. Tell them they are offending a female by holding open a door they will stop and then be called fucking rude for not holding open a door. Buggers cannae win.

As to the some not wanting a door held open? Maybe they should wear a sign. If not as you pointed out, ask.

All the members of my family have default manners. The example was to highlight that you said it was males only. You obviously did not read the rest of my post.

Manners. Always a sticky issue. But not one I'm going to hang men for.

[2AnimalCrackers]

I know lots of good men.

None of them are fundie.

Can you send some of them my way? I think it is time I started my own religion/cult and I need some Brother Husbands and Spiritual Cuckholds!

[freedomjesusfootball]

I thought all the good men were gay? I always hear that.

I know at least one who isn't. He's in my bed.

[Mary C Doates]

All the good men are on Hazardous Journeys, taking dominion over nature and having sweet (but manly) fellowship with Doug Phillips (who is a tool). To protect the wimminz, of course.

[slickcat79]

Apparently Latisha also agrees that we are lacking in good men, and she is on a role [sic]. Good thing she has Lord!Chad as her headship :roll:

theargonfamilylife.blogspot.com/2013/06/happy-daddy-day-and-small-rant-from.html

[FJismyheadship]

I thought Latisha's blog had been shut down?

[slickcat79]

She has a new one. Sadly, not nearly as interesting since she's not talking about the dangers of microwaves and asskissing Zsuzsu with every other post.