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The Truth About Ruth - Part 3


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The new entry on his blog indicates he noticed the uptick in hits on the PM articles on his blog.

That's one of the things I think must be so strange for people.....you have some little known blog and then all of a sudden have a zillion hits out of the blue, that would freak me out. Virtual reality is a very strange reality.

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He seems to think FJ is a ranting bunch of "Internet crazies" - not sure if knows what the general idea is. His blog post included the usual "get off your computer/get a life/go do some work" trope.

So, Calladus, if you're reading, I've been offline for most of today, writing lesson plans, cleaning my house, doing laundry, socializing, etc. :D I imagine that's true of most of the 7000+ FJ members, most days, and of you as well.

People here have given money, thinking they were helping a brave person coming out of abuse. Perhaps more important, a lot of us care pretty deeply about the damage done by abuse in the name of religion -- knowing that the supporters of Quiverful and ATI can point to a well-known story as fake is upsetting. I hope, with your outlook on life, you can understand that.

If RR is nonexistant, that is upsetting enough. If she is someone who has already pulled others into emotional fantasies online, or scammed others for money, that is even more upsetting.

You said this, on your blog:

In all these many pages, I don't think anyone here claimed that. The reason for concern is that the person who posted here as Razing Ruth may have created her as an imaginary character.

I don't understand people who sit in front of their computer and criticize other people for sitting in front of their computers criticizing people. Yes, I spend time on the internet. Yes, I criticize people who deserve it (including scammers). You know what I don't do? I don't tell people to get a life when I'm doing the exact same thing as them.

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The line about FJ being a pit of malicious bullies is sticking in my craw. I used to read NLQ, but started to not like Vickie when I read a bit about her and the drama leading up to leaving her husband and the problems she had with her daughter. Nothing is ever Vickie's fault. Ever. But to not be responsible and at least look into the allegations makes me now understand that she's not just a professional victim, but she's either lazy or doesn't give a fuck if it increases her site traffic. :disgust:

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So it doesn't matter if it is all fake to them because it helped some people when they thought it was real? That is the stupidest reasoning ever.

I have no proof of this so people can feel free to not believe me if they want, but I talked to my mom today and she brought up RR all on her own. I have talked to her about RR before to see if she could help me figure out who it is. Anyway according to her, some of the pro-ATI crowd has already learned RR is a fake and is using that to try and discredit all the other stories from former ATI students. So yes, keeping a fake story on your website and passing it off as real does hurt others.

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I'm curious how Calladus, who apparently actively participated in collecting donations for window film for PM because even walking through her living room would cause her obscene pain, explains PM's Facebook pictures in the sun, in the pool, in a swimsuit. Or on a hike in short sleeves. This isn't chronic fatigue we're talking about here - Oddeverything has already done an excellent job explaining why the lupus is bullshit.

Aside from that, the most evident connection between PM and RR is the IP matchup. Sure, there's a negligible chance that a known scammer, PM, happened to take a road trip that hit all the locations from which RR posted on FJ on the exact same dates, just like there's a negligible chance Colin Firth will ring my doorbell right now and profess his undying love and we'll ride away into the sunset together. When that happens, I'll let you know.

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So it doesn't matter if it is all fake to them because it helped some people when they thought it was real? That is the stupidest reasoning

I Agree, and I'm not even sure how her blog helped anyone. Did it inspire anyone who thought it was real to escape from ATI? Did Gothard escapees feel comforted or encouraged by her stories? I kind of doubt it but then again I was not a faithful reader of the blog so I don't know maybe someone was inspired by her at the time. However if someone was looking to "Ruth" for inspiration then found out she was fake that would do more harm then good anyway

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I don't understand people who sit in front of their computer and criticize other people for sitting in front of their computers criticizing people. Yes, I spend time on the internet. Yes, I criticize people who deserve it (including scammers). You know what I don't do? I don't tell people to get a life when I'm doing the exact same thing as them.

You read my mind, Minerva. I was just about to post a less eloquent reaction.

For example, the NLQ woman and Vyckie don't seem to get that emailing each other, chatting on the phone about RR/FJ, composing that childish response and POSTING that childish response really means they have way too much time on their hands to worry about FJ and should probably look into hobbies or correspondence courses or perhaps crocheting funny hats....

:nenner: :nenner: :nenner:

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So it doesn't matter if it is all fake to them because it helped some people when they thought it was real? That is the stupidest reasoning ever.

I have no proof of this so people can feel free to not believe me if they want, but I talked to my mom today and she brought up RR all on her own. I have talked to her about RR before to see if she could help me figure out who it is. Anyway according to her, some of the pro-ATI crowd has already learned RR is a fake and is using that to try and discredit all the other stories from former ATI students. So yes, keeping a fake story on your website and passing it off as real does hurt others.

Not to mention your credibility. At the very least, you should label it as fiction, so that people realize it's not a true story.

I suspect it comes down to more about not wanting to be wrong than anything else. Sometimes, you just have to admit you made a mistake, apologize and move forward. It sucks, but that is better than digging your heels in and looking like a fool, IMO.

We have never formally endorsed RR, though at some point Alecto may have said she vetted her (I have no recollection of this, but if someone can find it, then I will believe it happened, obviously), but that being said we still had a duty to come out and saw we no longer think she is a real person, I think. She didn't post her story here, in the traditional sense, but she did use FJ to drive traffic to her site and for "emotional support" and for us to just bury our heads in the sand and say it's not our problem/business would be ridiculous.

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PS - I have to keel over laughing at the "serious asshole" part. Yes, all serious assholes legally adopt children that aren't their own, then give up their house and car and pay out thousands of dollars a month in child support and alimony. I'm sure he sacrificially skinned actual live baby possums while at it.

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I'm curious how Calladus, who apparently actively participated in collecting donations for window film for PM because even walking through her living room would cause her obscene pain, explains PM's Facebook pictures in the sun, in the pool, in a swimsuit. Or on a hike in short sleeves. This isn't chronic fatigue we're talking about here - Oddeverything has already done an excellent job explaining why the lupus is bullshit.

Aside from that, the most evident connection between PM and RR is the IP matchup. Sure, there's a negligible chance that a known scammer, PM, happened to take a road trip that hit all the locations from which RR posted on FJ on the exact same dates, just like there's a negligible chance Colin Firth will ring my doorbell right now and profess his undying love and we'll ride away into the sunset together. When that happens, I'll let you know.

That one is my big question, as well, Carla. Even if you can get by the other stuff with good days and bad days, the sun sensitivity (of which, I suffer myself) is not something that comes and goes regardless of the good/bad days you may be having. I don't care how great a day I'm having, you will never catch me out in full sun in a swimming suit.

Fortunately, mine (which my dr years ago actually called an allergy to the sun) is not severe enough that I need to go to the extreme lengths of having UV film, I do break out in hives and/or rashes when I go out even if it's cloudy if I stay out for too long. If I get hives, I pop a couple benedryl and it fixes me right up. No trips to the ER needed ;)

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PS - I have to keel over laughing at the "serious asshole" part. Yes, all serious assholes legally adopt children that aren't their own, then give up their house and car and pay out thousands of dollars a month in child support and alimony. I'm sure he sacrificially skinned actual live baby possums while at it.

I have a feeling that was because he believed the information that was sent to him vs PM. I would guess that he probably had an inkling that something wasn't kosher to begin with and getting a load of information mailed from random people on the internet was the last straw.

That is just a guess on my part, but living with her he probably realized that she wasn't as unhealthy as she was posting about so wouldn't you wonder why suddenly you are having UV film donated to you and things like that?

That is just my random speculation, of course.

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So it doesn't matter if it is all fake to them because it helped some people when they thought it was real? That is the stupidest reasoning ever.

I have no proof of this so people can feel free to not believe me if they want, but I talked to my mom today and she brought up RR all on her own. I have talked to her about RR before to see if she could help me figure out who it is. Anyway according to her, some of the pro-ATI crowd has already learned RR is a fake and is using that to try and discredit all the other stories from former ATI students. So yes, keeping a fake story on your website and passing it off as real does hurt others.

I believe you. (Remind me of your paypal again? :) )

All jokes aside. I can see how the ATI movement would use that as a warning to their children that no help real or internet based will await them should they choose to leave the 'protection' of their parents and church and way of life. SEE even those evil non-believers use lies to exaggerate and discredit our way of life and they are just liars.

It is quite scary formergee. I sincerely doubt Vyckie actually wants to help anybody else. I also do not believe that FJ is a vehicle to leave fundiedom, but I think if some are led here they at least are opened to many and varied opinions on many things, by a diverse set of humans. You know, like life.

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I have a feeling that was because he believed the information that was sent to him vs PM. I would guess that he probably had an inkling that something wasn't kosher to begin with and getting a load of information mailed from random people on the internet was the last straw.

That is just a guess on my part, but living with her he probably realized that she wasn't as unhealthy as she was posting about so wouldn't you wonder why suddenly you are having UV film donated to you and things like that?

That is just my random speculation, of course.

Oh, of course - he seems like a highly intelligent individual, I think he probably pieced everything together better than anyone else outside the family could have.

Also, never in my entire life have I heard of four kids, two of which aren't even biologically the dad's, being okayed to move cross-country with said dad without the court having a SERIOUS reason to approve this. Like the mother being on crack or in jail or a pathological liar. "I couldn't afford to fight it" is bullshit - when my parents were getting divorced, my mom was making peanuts and working night shifts as a medical resident. The (very conservative) court's response to my father's sole custody petition, which would only have me moving 2 hours away, was basically "nice try, buddy", and he was my biological father who had raised me from birth and had a house, a secure job, and a much higher salary.

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I don't understand people who sit in front of their computer and criticize other people for sitting in front of their computers criticizing people. Yes, I spend time on the internet. Yes, I criticize people who deserve it (including scammers). You know what I don't do? I don't tell people to get a life when I'm doing the exact same thing as them.

You said it more succinctly than I did.

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I agree, the courts in Cali are very, very much 50/50 custody and visitation unless there is a serious problem. Didn't their case begin that way and then her custody time kept getting reduced? There is a reason if that happens in Cali and it's never pretty especially if the losing parent is trying to keep the time. Alcoholism and drug use are at the top of the list along with abuse and mental health issues. I can't think of a case among the people I know where a parent was allowed to move the children out of state. A friend of mine had her hubby try to move the kids to Arizona and the judge said enjoy Phoenix. You may see the kids on these holidays if you come to Cali or buy plane tickets.

I'm sure the Possum made out that the ex was a horrible person and she was the put upon one, but two of her kids are old enough to decide what they want to a great extent and they seemed to want to go with her ex. She seems like it might be like living with Lori's cousin to live with the Possum.

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You said it more succinctly than I did.

I'm doing it on my phone sometimes. That means I'm a kind of a better sad person :lol: Degrees of hypocrisy.

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I'm curious how Calladus, who apparently actively participated in collecting donations for window film for PM because even walking through her living room would cause her obscene pain, explains PM's Facebook pictures in the sun, in the pool, in a swimsuit. Or on a hike in short sleeves. This isn't chronic fatigue we're talking about here - Oddeverything has already done an excellent job explaining why the lupus is bullshit.

He only talks about her having energy issues due to the lupus. I think he's missing the point -- he doesn't mention anything about sun sensitivity, which is what most people on here are questioning.

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I went through divorce/custody issues in the CA courts. If she was the SAHM and he was working then she should have had the kids most of the time. Even if he wanted more time, she is entitled to have the kids while he is working (instead of a childcare worker) and if he can't take them to school in the morning then he wouldn't usually get them the night before. I imagine they reached some sort of compromise in mediation but it's very unusual for him to have gotten full custody and be able to move away without some huge reason. I wonder if there were psych evaluations involved.

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Oh, of course - he seems like a highly intelligent individual, I think he probably pieced everything together better than anyone else outside the family could have.

Also, never in my entire life have I heard of four kids, two of which aren't even biologically the dad's, being okayed to move cross-country with said dad without the court having a SERIOUS reason to approve this. Like the mother being on crack or in jail or a pathological liar. "I couldn't afford to fight it" is bullshit - when my parents were getting divorced, my mom was making peanuts and working night shifts as a medical resident. The (very conservative) court's response to my father's sole custody petition, which would only have me moving 2 hours away, was basically "nice try, buddy", and he was my biological father who had raised me from birth and had a house, a secure job, and a much higher salary.

In the end, he did get the house back and became the residential parent. It was in the interim orders that she kept the house, although he paid the payments.

She's very lucky that he didn't get the case moved to IL. She'd be paying a straight percentage of her income to him. For three kids, I think it'd be upwards of 27%. She might even lose her alimony.

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She initially had the kids most of the time. Eventually he got 50/50, then he got majority, then he moved. The fact that 2 of the kids aren't his biologically is a non-issue as they were legally adopted. The oldest kids were given a lot of discretion in how much contact they had with p-momma while they still lived in CA, which is sort of unusual, but if they were older teens not unheard of.

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I went through divorce/custody issues in the CA courts. If she was the SAHM and he was working then she should have had the kids most of the time. Even if he wanted more time, she is entitled to have the kids while he is working (instead of a childcare worker) and if he can't take them to school in the morning then he wouldn't usually get them the night before. I imagine they reached some sort of compromise in mediation but it's very unusual for him to have gotten full custody and be able to move away without some huge reason. I wonder if there were psych evaluations involved.

A psych eval was mentioned; it was after that that the custody arrangement was amended. Unsurprisingly ;)

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A psych eval was mentioned; it was after that that the custody arrangement was amended. Unsurprisingly ;)

Didn't "Ruth" mention on here that she got a psych eval when she changed her name? Hmmm :think:

(BTW, in case anyone missed that in Part 2, California doesn't require psych evals for a name change.)

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I'm digressing again, but...was a website devoted to taking apart this scam started, and is it up and running? Thanks!

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I Agree, and I'm not even sure how her blog helped anyone. Did it inspire anyone who thought it was real to escape from ATI? Did Gothard escapees feel comforted or encouraged by her stories? I kind of doubt it but then again I was not a faithful reader of the blog so I don't know maybe someone was inspired by her at the time. However if someone was looking to "Ruth" for inspiration then found out she was fake that would do more harm then good anyway

The fact that RR was fake will have an impact on the credibility of the movement to expose ATI as a whole. A way to get back some of that credibility is to make a point of always outing fakes. When everyone else knows that you know that someone's a fake, yet you still use them to support your cause, that is a really strong argument against what you stand for. I believe that RR's story helped people in the past. I highly doubt it will continue to help people now that it's well known to be untrue.

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I'm digressing again, but...was a website devoted to taking apart this scam started, and is it up and running? Thanks!

yes and not yet. I believe she said it will be going live tomorrow sometime. The link is given in the chatter thread. I don't have it off the top of my head, sorry.

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