Anna-Sofia and Elizabeth Are Freaking Creepy

[debrand]

I finally forced myself to read chapter five of Its Not That Complicated

You can be friends with guys, just not close friends. Your male friends should be made through your family so no, personal friends. However, this passage in the chapter sounded emotionally incestous to me.

There is a fourteen-year age-span between our five brothers. That means that we've seen everything from tiny amateurs clumsily batting their eye-lashes at our youngest brothers, to desperate single -mothers trying to get rings out of our oldest brother.

and

...and those women made our blood boil.

Why would they get angry because their brothers were flirting or had some young lady flirt with them? I don't like the term, cockblocking but it sounds like what the Botkin sisters do. Not only do they overstep the boundaries of normal sister/brother interaction by making themselves responsible for protecting their brother's purity from evil harlots but they suggest that all young women who consider themselves a friend to any nonrelative male should do the same.

And we should be just as angry when we see any girl trying to steal their purity and focus-even if it's one of us

That is crazy. :cray-cray:

Oh and New Zealand is led by females. I don't remember in which chapter that they made this comment but it is there, I promise. Women control men in New Zealand because feminism has taken over the country. If you are planning a trip to that country then I've forewarned you. :lol:

[debrand]

If I ever finish this book, I will send it to whichever one of you all have a blog and will review it too. There can't be too many people warning the world about this book's craziness or, at least, mocking the hell out of it.

[tenth muse]

The bit about the 'desperate single mothers' that make their 'blood boil' ...that makes me angry. As if the very idea of a non-virginal woman being with one of the sainted brothers is too awful for them to contemplate :roll:

[lilith]

I finally forced myself to read chapter five of Its Not That Complicated

You can be friends with guys, just not close friends. Your male friends should be made through your family so no, personal friends. However, this passage in the chapter sounded emotionally incestous to me.

and

Why would they get angry because their brothers were flirting or had some young lady flirt with them? I don't like the term, cockblocking but it sounds like what the Botkin sisters do. Not only do they overstep the boundaries of normal sister/brother interaction by making themselves responsible for protecting their brother's purity from evil harlots but they suggest that all young women who consider themselves a friend to any nonrelative male should do the same.

That is crazy. :cray-cray:

Oh and New Zealand is led by females. I don't remember in which chapter that they made this comment but it is there, I promise. Women control men in New Zealand because feminism has taken over the country. If you are planning a trip to that country then I've forewarned you. :lol:

Well NZ was the first country to give women the vote, and had a female PM not long ago. Maybe they mean that. But many Maoris would be very surprised to find that they live in a matriarchy!

The "stealing purity and focus" is weird. Like they think they have a claim to the focus and attention of their brothers.

And I highly doubt that any single mothers were making moves on a BotkinBoy. No place for non Botkin genetic material in the 200 year plan, and no single mother would set herself up for the grief and judgement she would meet in that circle.

[Marian the Librarian]

Couldn't agree more. The Botkins present a seriously unwholesome family dynamic. How many women out there, pushing 30, are so father- and brother-obsessed? They are second only to the Maxwells on the Makes-My-Skin-Crawl meter.

BTW debrand, I've been enjoying every bit of your "It's Not That Complicated" deconstruction. Brava, and thanks for taking one for the team.

[VooDooChild]

Why are the lowly wimminz responsible for keeping the purity of the manly-men-in-charge? Can't these people even keep their own teachings straight? The cognitive dissonance must be exhausting.

[debrand]

Couldn't agree more. The Botkins present a seriously unwholesome family dynamic. How many women out there, pushing 30, are so father- and brother-obsessed? They are second only to the Maxwells on the Makes-My-Skin-Crawl meter.

BTW debrand, I've been enjoying every bit of your "It's Not That Complicated" deconstruction. Brava, and thanks for taking one for the team.

Thanks,that means a lot to me.

The book gives more insight into their family dynamic than I think that the Botkins realize. Elizabeth, for example, had a very contentious relationship with one brother-she doesn't say which one or why. Their relationship was strained enough that she felt guilt over the strife it caused in their family. However, she prayed to god and began to change how she treated that brother and they are now close. It makes me wonder what happened. Did she do what so many fundamentalist women do and pretend away her problems?

Anna-Sofia was jealous of Ben's superior musical talents because she always dreamed of composing music for film. However, does Ben really have more talent or were more resources and attention paid toward helping him develop his passions because he is male?

Audri-Ben's future wife-once told the sisters that she would be ready for marriage when she was prepared to 'sacrifice herself to the Lord through the relationship." And not be concerned with what she'd get out of the marriage. Anna-Sofia and Elizabeth agreed with this sentiment but it sounds very disturbing and depressing to me

Although I find them infuriating, I also deeply pity them. I wonder how many times that they have had to swallow down their own needs, wants and dreams.

[debrand]

Why are the lowly wimminz responsible for keeping the purity of the manly-men-in-charge? Can't these people even keep their own teachings straight? The cognitive dissonance must be exhausting.

It must be emotionally exhausting to hold so many conflicting beliefs at the exact same time.

[SoybeanQueen]

What a shining example of God's love there - the idea that a single mother is an unwanted intrusion on their lives. You should definitely have the baby, because otherwise you're a murderer and we won't have anything to do with you, but once you have the baby, we'll shun you anyway. Pro-life - just not *your* life.

[snarkyjan]

I finally forced myself to read chapter five of Its Not That Complicated

You can be friends with guys, just not close friends. Your male friends should be made through your family so no, personal friends. However, this passage in the chapter sounded emotionally incestous to me.

and

Why would they get angry because their brothers were flirting or had some young lady flirt with them? I don't like the term, cockblocking but it sounds like what the Botkin sisters do. Not only do they overstep the boundaries of normal sister/brother interaction by making themselves responsible for protecting their brother's purity from evil harlots but they suggest that all young women who consider themselves a friend to any nonrelative male should do the same.

That is crazy. :cray-cray:

Oh and New Zealand is led by females. I don't remember in which chapter that they made this comment but it is there, I promise. Women control men in New Zealand because feminism has taken over the country. If you are planning a trip to that country then I've forewarned you. :lol:

When can I leave?

[thoughtful]

I wonder how many times that they have had to swallow down their own needs, wants and dreams.

Probably every few minutes.

[terranova]

At one point, about 10 years ago our PM, Leader of the Opposition, Chief Justice, Governor General and the head of our largest company were all females. Maybe that's what they're on about? Otherwise, no, sadly we're not a matriarchy.

[Marian the Librarian]

Thanks,that means a lot to me.

The book gives more insight into their family dynamic than I think that the Botkins realize. Elizabeth, for example, had a very contentious relationship with one brother-she doesn't say which one or why. Their relationship was strained enough that she felt guilt over the strife it caused in their family. However, she prayed to god and began to change how she treated that brother and they are now close. It makes me wonder what happened. Did she do what so many fundamentalist women do and pretend away her problems?

Anna-Sofia was jealous of Ben's superior musical talents because she always dreamed of composing music for film. However, does Ben really have more talent or were more resources and attention paid toward helping him develop his passions because he is male?

Audri-Ben's future wife-once told the sisters that she would be ready for marriage when she was prepared to 'sacrifice herself to the Lord through the relationship." And not be concerned with what she'd get out of the marriage. Anna-Sofia and Elizabeth agreed with this sentiment but it sounds very disturbing and depressing to me

Although I find them infuriating, I also deeply pity them. I wonder how many times that they have had to swallow down their own needs, wants and dreams.

Riiight - because, don't'cha know, every man wants to be married to a martyred, long-suffering, self-abnegating cipher - it's just SO awesomely sexy and satisfying!!

:angry-banghead:

[Anny Nym]

hy debrand - just wanna to say I too love your deconstructing of the Robotkin´s tripe!

Thanks again for "taking one for the team" - I set back a 12er tray of finest austrian Schnaps for you, you earned every drop ;-)

[Deloris]

Very interesting. I've wanted to read that book just to see what is in it. Does not surprise me though.

[bananacat]

I have two brothers and I have literally never felt jealous of women flirting or having relationships with them. I trust my brothers' judgment in deciding if a woman is right for them, without my input unless they were to specifically ask for it. One of my brothers did actually marry a single mother although she certainly wasn't clinging to him desperate for a ring. I never felt violated and I'm glad for my nephew to be part of my family, even though I don't get to see him very often because he also spends a lot of time with his dad's side of the family.

[VooDooChild]

Riiight - because, don't'cha know, every man wants to be married to a martyred, long-suffering, self-abnegating cipher - it's just SO awesomely sexy and satisfying!!

:angry-banghead:

To the bolded: Way to feel about such a wonderful blessing from the Lord!

[nokidsmom]

To the bolded: Way to feel about such a wonderful blessing from the Lord!

+1. While in college, I had some fundie-lite classmates hell bent on obtaining their MRS degrees that talked this "sacrifice" talk. Even to my more idealistic younger self (as opposed to my more cynical older self) I found this damn depressing.

To note: my comment about the MRS degree was not snark, these girls were very obvious that they were at college to find a husband.

Back to the Bodkinettes, they are a couple of strange ones. Understatement, I know but I really have no words. This "daddy worship" and "brother purity protection" stuff is damn creepy and the way they talk about it probably is creeping any potential suitors out. I know that in fundie-land the father is considered the headship until marriage when it goes to the husband but wonder if any guys know that in reality, if they marry a Bodkinette, they will be forever competing with Daddy.

[Sobeknofret]

Now I want to read this book! What a confusing mass of word-vomit they're spewing! It must take real cognitive dissonance to be a Botkin.

Does anyone have the Return of the Daughters film I could borrow? I'll offer my copy of Desperate Housewives Passionate for God in return...

[Minerva]

Seeing other women flirt with their brothers makes their blood boil, even if those women are really awkward little girls. That is some creepy incest shit. What is with fundies and creepy incest shit?

[Anise]

Shades of Raquel?

I wonder where they get it from.

[pirate]

My brother's had quite a few girlfriends and I never considered being jealous. I just figured it was a testament to his friendly personality, I think he finds it easy to meet people and make friends, and he is easygoing and a very nice person. It seems very weird to me that they would be angered by women taking an interest in their brothers. Also the implication that single women MUST be desperate for a husband makes me ragey. What if they are glad to be free? I suppose that is not likely in fundie-world, but still.

[turquoise]

Silly me, when my brother introduced his future wife to our family I was happy for him. What was I thinking?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Weren't the Botkins planning on emigrating to NZ to basically take it over, at some point? They lived there for a little while?

I wonder if the bit about NZ being led by women is at least in part sour grapes over that obviously failing. They went there to sell a message of super patriarchy and ran into people responding with "meh, don't think so, LOL" and surely that was due to the evil wimmins?

[Marian the Librarian]

The Botkinettes were spreading their message of brotherly love at a homeschooling conference in May. One blogger's takeaway:

We need good relationships with our brothers, girls~We forget we are learning from them, as most of the time our attitude seems to say " they need to grow up." Yes, maybe they do need to but what are we doing to help them?

It is up to us to do better so that we will be a good example to them of the kind of wife they should look for some day.

They demand respect and we should give it to them. That is the only way they will ever become men. If we treat them with no trust or respect, how will they ever achieve it?

The one lesson which struck me, was that I am not a good sister unless I listen to my brother but more then that allow them to teach me things. God has given them much wisdom even if they are younger. I must humble my self and learn so as to help them grow!

I leave you with this challenge What are you going to change in your life, so as to honor and respect your brother.

savoriesoflife.blogspot.com/2013/05/new-notes-on-loving-your-brothers-tips.html