Oooh, a mystery!

[Lainey]

If you have a name try looking on Google and Wikipedia, perhaps it can shed light in the modern day equivalent. If you want to share what city/village your looking up I'll see if my Google super powers are working...

Oh, okay, thanks! I tried, but I don't know if I got the right ones or not.

Great-grandfather (aka International Man of Mystery or, you know, whatever)--my grandma told me he came from here: Stuchency, District of Letcheff, Province of Kaminitic, Podollski, Russia. I found a town called Shchuchyntsi, which sounds like it could be it to me, but I really don't know.

Great-grandmother--my grandma told me she came from here: Proskurow (Khmelnitski), Chsperchency, Russia. I think I found this one, spelled Khmelnytskyi or something like that. Pretty sure, but still not positive.

Both of their birthplaces are now located in Ukraine, I think.

[Smokey-pony]

I wonder if you ran this page thru Google translate if it would help. From what I've read in the last 5 minutes the most complete Russian census took place in 1897.

[Smokey-pony]

Whoops forgot the link :-) https://familysearch.org/eng/Library/fh ... ns=*,180,0

[Lainey]

I ran it through Google Translate and got this:

Pereselenii ︠ a ︡ v rossii vo vtoroĭ polovine XIX v. : Po materialam perepisi 1897 g. u pasportnoĭ statistiki Tikhonov, B. V. (Boris Vasil'evich)

Pervai ︠ a ︡ vseobshchai ︠ a ︡ perepis' naselenii ︠ a ︡ Rossiĭskoĭ imperii, 1897 g. Troĭnit ︠ s ︡ kiĭ, N. A.

Census questionnaires Ishim (county), 1897 Tobolsk (province). Tobolsk Regional Committee

Census questionnaires: Barrow (county), 1897 Tobolsk (province). Tobolsk Regional Committee

Census questionnaires: Tara (county), 1897 Tobolsk (province). Tobolsk Regional Committee

Census questionnaires Tobolsk (county), 1897 Tobolsk (province). Tobolsk Regional Committee

Census questionnaires: Turinsk (county), 1897 Tobolsk (province). Tobolsk Regional Committee

Census questionnaires: Tukalinsk (county), 1897 Tobolsk (province). Tobolsk Regional Committee

Census questionnaires: Tyumen (county), 1897 Tobolsk (province). Tobolsk Regional Committee

Census questionnaires: Yalutorovsk (county), 1897 Tobolsk (province). Tobolsk Regional Committee

Population Census: Vyatka (province), 1897 Vyatka (province). central office

I don't know what language that first bit is. It said Slovenian, but it won't translate it. I don't see anything on this list that looks familiar, though.

[Smokey-pony]

Oh well, I thought it was worth a try anyway

[Lainey]

Oh well, I thought it was worth a try anyway

Oh, it was, thank you. :) Maybe I'll go through that list later and see if any of those places have changed names since. Maybe one of them is one I'm looking for.

So, guess what? I googled my great-grandpa's name, and I got a hit on a blurb in a newspaper--from 1932--saying that his brother came to a "sudden demise" IN DETROIT, in 1932! I had to get a subscription to newspaperarchives.com to see it, but it was worth every penny. The only thing is I can't find any articles about the actual murder.

I also googled all my parents and grandparents' names. The papers back then were pretty funny--it was all like, "So-and-so visited her brother, so-and-so," "So-and-so went home today after visiting so-and-so," "So-and-so Mrs. So-and-so are vacationing in Vancouver for a week." :lol: At least in the area where I'm from.

[Smokey-pony]

Wow that's a cool find! I've found little newspaper quips like that in the "society pages" I guess that's how you gossiped before the internet. Whole different world they lived in. I have a scrapbook my grandma kept in her college years that had a bunch of newspaper clippings detailing the various activities of her friends.

[Lainey]

Wow that's a cool find! I've found little newspaper quips like that in the "society pages" I guess that's how you gossiped before the internet. Whole different world they lived in. I have a scrapbook my grandma kept in her college years that had a bunch of newspaper clippings detailing the various activities of her friends.

That would drive me crazy! Who would want everyone in town knowing everything that's going on with you?

Oh my goodness, between finding confirmation that my grandma's uncle died in Detroit in 1932, and so that is almost definitely him (in my mind, it's totally definitely him), and the Walking Dead Season 4 preview, I'm beside myself with excitement today! I can't even deal with all this excitement. I think I'll go to bed. :D

[Smokey-pony]

I think they considered it an honor to make it in the papers because it meant they where important high society girls. now we just post everything we do on Facebook I guess. But yeah it does seen like everyone was up in everyone's business.

Those are some exciting finds! Order that death certif!! It can take a month or more for it to come through.

[crazyforkate]

My paper does a thing every weekday where they publish an excerpt from 25, 50 and 100 years ago on this date. The 25 and 50 are generally rather dull, but the 100 is wonderful - it might as well be from another planet. One of my favourites - "Mr. C. C. Prowse has purchased a cow." Truly, history was made that day.

[Bethella]

One of my most memorable newspaper blurbs came from the early 1890s. It started off with a man claiming that his wife had abandoned the marital home and that he would no longer be responsible for any of the bills she was running up (in his name) at local businesses. The next article was the wife claiming that she had been driven from the marital home, but that half of the contents were hers, so nobody should buy anything from him without giving her her half of the money. Now, I admit I don't know the back story behind the situation, but these went on for about two months before the newspaper printed a notice of the divorce; nice to know people don't change.

[Lainey]

Hahahahahaha! Oh my, Bethella, that's quite the story! I thought it was hilarious enough to see one that went something like this:

"John Smith received visitors Thursday evening to help him celebrate his birthday. Mrs. Smith served a midnight luncheon. Cards and Chinese Checkers were enjoyed."

[Smokey-pony]

Those are all great. I should start writing my Facebook statuses in that sort of language, "today Kristi enjoyed a stroll on the beach with her dog and suitor""

[Lainey]

Those are all great. I should start writing my Facebook statuses in that sort of language, "today Kristi enjoyed a stroll on the beach with her dog and suitor""

Haha! I said the same thing when I went to Denny's this morning with my husband and dad. It would read something like this:

"Mr. J. H. joined his daughter and son-in-law, Mr. and Mrs. G. M. today for a late breakfast at Denny's. Eggs Benedict and [whatever the heck they had; I don't remember] were enjoyed."

[Lainey]

I heard back from the lady from the cemetery website. She went to the library and couldn't find any articles whatsoever about my great-granduncle being shot. She said it took a few days for my g-grandfather to be notified, though, which she thought could mean nobody knew who he was at first. Also, the city of Detroit paid for his burial, which I guess means he was a pauper or something.

He lived in a boarding house with people who came from the same area of Russia as him, so I think he knew them from Russia. You'd think they'd know who he was. I can't understand why there doesn't seem to be anything written about it.

[Smokey-pony]

Sometimes records are just missing or haven't been saved. It stinks I know. Did you try census records?

[Lainey]

Yeah, that's how I figured out who he lived with. I understand records being missing, but what I don't understand is NO mention in the newspapers. The newspapers aren't missing; they exist. They just don't mention anyone being shot around that time. There HAS to be an article somewhere! Except there isn't. :( Or at least, I can't find it.

One thing I learned from the census was that he worked in an auto factory. The year he was shot, 1932, is the year there was a major protest of laid-off auto workers, and some were shot. But that happened in March. He died in June. Still, I wonder if there's any connection there.

[Lainey]

I ordered the death certificate. I hope they can find it.

[Smokey-pony]

I hope so too!

[Lainey]

My grandma told me again today to stop looking into it. My fault--I was fishing for information. *sigh*

I still feel guilty a little bit. But I also don't really feel like she has any right to tell me what I can and can't look into in regards to my own family. What do you think?

[Smokey-pony]

I think that it's totally within your right to look guilt free :-). The information is public information for the taking. It's not like your reading her diary. I would either not breath another word of it to her or tell her flat out that you are going to keep up the search and she'll just have to deal.

[Lainey]

Thank you; that made me feel better. :)

Yes, you're right--no more mention of it to her. If I tell her flat out, she'll just amp up the manipulation--"Oh, I'm just sick about this!" :drama:

Mah lips, they are sealed. :wink-kitty:

[MorbidAwe]

He lived in a boarding house with people who came from the same area of Russia as him, so I think he knew them from Russia. You'd think they'd know who he was. I can't understand why there doesn't seem to be anything written about it.

My great-grandfather came from a rural area near L'vov (L'Viv) (Ukraine, now, but who knows what country it was back in those days) to Detroit with his brother some time after the turn of the century. They stayed in a boarding house with other people from the home country, and (as my mother found out only recently) Great G-Pa had a child with the woman who ran the boarding house! He worked hard and had an auto-repair business.

After that, GGPa went back to the old country to find himself a good Ukrainian wife. He went to the home of my Great Grandmother and asked her parents for their older daughter's hand, saying he would bring her to America for a new life. The older daughter wasn't interested, didn't want to leave the home country, but my Great G-Ma stepped into the room and announced that she would marry him, if he would bring her to America! She was 12 or 13, lied and said she was 16, and against her parents wishes, married the guy and left.

GGPa wasn't involved with his child by the boarding house woman, apparently (but I don't really know). GGMa was an incredible woman and lived a fascinating life. My Grandmother (their oldest daughter, an 'old maid' who didn't marry until her 30's) worked at the auto factory from the mid 1930's. Last names involved were Bartok and Boyko. GGPa's brother who came over with him was a bigtime bootlegger during prohibition.

I wonder if we are somehow connected, Lainey?

[Lainey]

I was wondering that as I was reading your story, MorbidAwe! There are definitely some similarities. I don't recognize the last names Bartok and Boyko, though. Did any of your ancestors go to Canada? As I said earlier in the thread, my great-granduncle's name was Zurowski or Zurowsky. He boarded with a family with the last name Antonow.

[MorbidAwe]

GGPa's wild bootlegging brother, and indeed half of the family on that side, lives or lived in Canada since before I was born. I forgot to put that part in. Oh, Lainey, I hope my great great uncle didn't off your great great uncle in a bootlegging operation turned bed!