4Moms QA-QF Daugther does NOT like caring for sibs

[copper]

This is a question the DHM from The Common Room addressed on her 4Moms Q&A today:

 

 

Quote

How does one (me) handle the attitude of an older teenage daughter that basically says, “I don’t want to have kids, especially a lot of them. It’s fine if YOU want to but I’m not the mother of these kids and if you can’t take care of them on your own, don’t have them?†My younger son is usually more than willing to help out and I tend to ask him more because his attitude is more receptive. Plus, I’d rather not have my little ones in the care of someone who resents them so much of the time. If it’s HER idea to do something with them she’s great, but if I’M the one asking…. it’s a different story.

 

thecommonroomblog.com/

 

There was another similar, yet different question the LIAS 4Moms Q&A a week or two ago. Only, I don't think the daughter was unhelpful, she was just saying that she did not want kids/a lot of kids. The mom was writing to KimC asking for help on how to help adjust her daughter's thinking.

 

So I guess alllllll the daughters don't just loooooooove it like they are always saying. I wish there were a meme like the that said LIARS!

[slickcat79]

I wish more of the older teenage daughters would take that attitude. QFers would probably have fewer kids.

Now, I think it's a good idea for teens to have some kind of chores/responsibilities around the house, especially if they're not working or in school. But we all know fundie parents expect way too much from their kids at way too young an age.

[copper]

how do you encourage your girls to value Biblical womanhood? My oldest says stuff all the time about how “Babies are hard work! I hope we don’t have TOO many! Ugh! When I grow up I’m NOT having ANY babies! I’ll be a Dentist instead!†I don’t want to respond with a punitive nature to these selfish statements, and cause her to carry more resentment, but I do want to emphasize the beauty and blessing that every child is. She is aware of our choice to allow God to choose our family size, and our anticipation of more babies. I know she isn’t hearing these statements from me, I’m very careful to model a love for children and babies, and a willingness to cheerfully parent each child I’m given, but this attitude persists. I don’t know if it is due to the fact, that as the oldest, she helps a lot. Just walk me through how you encourage a joyful love for Biblical Womanhood

This is the LIAS question from a few weeks ago.

inashoe.com/2013/06/4-moms-q-relationships-between-widely-spaced-children-kids-who-think-babies-are-too-much-work/

[teachergirl]

didn't you the love the guilt trip replies you are supposed to give your daughters? These will NEVER admit they cannot exist without their older children, especially girls. I loved how Kim C said kids only feel overworked because society tells them they or something to that effect. Or you know, they are just sick of no privacy, shared everything, constant noise, sharing of food and on and on. Scary how the groupthink is in play in these familes. It never occurs to them their children may want differently?

[Sobeknofret]

Not unusual in big families. My mom was the second oldest of 7, and she and her older sister took care of the other five, including one developmentally delayed sibling. She was burned out on childcare by the time it came time to have her own, and decided one was plenty for her.

[Jana814]

Not unusual in big families. My mom was the second oldest of 7, and she and her older sister took care of the other five, including one developmentally delayed sibling. She was burned out on childcare by the time it came time to have her own, and decided one was plenty for her.

I am currently dog sitting for someone w/ a similar background to your mother (except their were 5 & no one was delayed but she was the 2nd oldest) she too only has 1 kid.

[anjulibai]

I am currently dog sitting for someone w/ a similar background to your mother (except their were 5 & no one was delayed but she was the 2nd oldest) she too only has 1 kid.

My mom was the third of 9, and none of them had more than 3 kids. Most had just 2, and 2 of them had only 1 each.

Yeah, that's not a coincidence, fundies.

[loulou]

I've visited Deanna (Kim C's married daughter) on her facebook page, and notice that she's been married almost a year with no pregnancy announcement yet. In fact, she and her husband seem to be having a great time just being a young married couple.

I'm guessing either (1) she's not super fertile and is relieved about it or (2) they're using some form of BC.

I remember Deanna making a comment on the LIAS page a few years ago that she's hoping to not have as many kids as her parents did. I'd guess she's burned out on child care .

[Lianachu]

Not unusual in big families. My mom was the second oldest of 7, and she and her older sister took care of the other five, including one developmentally delayed sibling. She was burned out on childcare by the time it came time to have her own, and decided one was plenty for her.

This is why I'm perpetually surprised that, despite my great grandmother being the oldest of 13, she went on to have 10 kids of her own!

[copper]

didn't you the love the guilt trip replies you are supposed to give your daughters? These will NEVER admit they cannot exist without their older children, especially girls. I loved how Kim C said kids only feel overworked because society tells them they or something to that effect. Or you know, they are just sick of no privacy, shared everything, constant noise, sharing of food and on and on. Scary how the groupthink is in play in these familes. It never occurs to them their children may want differently?

THIS. She can't function without the girl, so has to ask a son instead. She never does without help...is just upset that the daughter said "don't have them if you can't take care of them on your own" Screaming proof that having a billion kids is dependent on other kids helping. It's not because of "sibling love", "sweet relationships", or learning responsibility. It's because Mom can't do it on her own.

[Khan]

This subject burns my bacon. I agree with that teenage girl 100%. My parents tried that crap. "We are a family. You should help take care of them.". Ah, no. I didn't pop 'em out. I'm not raising them. Parental responsibility really shouldn't be dumped on the kids' shoulders. It kills something inside so many.

[August]

This is why I'm perpetually surprised that, despite my great grandmother being the oldest of 13, she went on to have 10 kids of her own!

Around the turn of last century there was no reliable contraception and a woman was not legally permitted to say no to sex. So unless her husband was amenable to abstaining she had no choice but to have that many.

[Mela99]

Wow, maybe she could take care of them herself?

[gezykah]

Around the turn of last century there was no reliable contraception and a woman was not legally permitted to say no to sex. So unless her husband was amenable to abstaining she had no choice but to have that many.

My grandmother was the oldest daughter out of 13. One of her siblings passed away when he was a teenager but everyone that survived until adulthood also had 13 kids except for her. She had 9. She wanted to stop after her fourth but couldn't find a doctor willing to tie her tubes. They told her she was too young. She never did mention if she tried birth control. About ten years ago some of us got together at a family event and realized that she had 268 direct descendents. It's easily over 300 by now. I guess she must've made it look easy because despite having advantages she never did many of my relatives have 10+ kids. Most people I know who grew up in large families don't go on to have as many children as some of my relatives have.

A great grandmother on my other side of the family once told me she and her Catholic sisters were very exited when the pill was released.

[bananacat]

I almost wonder if this mother is trolling. Or else the family must have converted to QF after the oldest daughter was already old enough to remember the outside world. I don't believe than any Duggar or Bates daughter would even dare to say such a thought out loud, even if they were secretly thinking it. And if they did think it, they would probably just feel like they had sinned and would berate themselves for it.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I almost wonder if this mother is trolling. Or else the family must have converted to QF after the oldest daughter was already old enough to remember the outside world. I don't believe than any Duggar or Bates daughter would even dare to say such a thought out loud, even if they were secretly thinking it. And if they did think it, they would probably just feel like they had sinned and would berate themselves for it.

I agree. I know we're all on high alert for trolling right now, but I read this and thought, "Yeah, I doubt that unless this family has only just gotten on the fundie bandwagon really recently." Otherwise I don't even see how a girl in this sort of family could voice that without fear of significant retribution.

[copper]

In the DHM's response to the question at the common room, she mentions that she knows of their situation. The girl in question on the LIAS sounds young, IMO.

[Hisey]

I've visited Deanna (Kim C's married daughter) on her facebook page, and notice that she's been married almost a year with no pregnancy announcement yet. In fact, she and her husband seem to be having a great time just being a young married couple.

I'm guessing either (1) she's not super fertile and is relieved about it or (2) they're using some form of BC.

I remember Deanna making a comment on the LIAS page a few years ago that she's hoping to not have as many kids as her parents did. I'd guess she's burned out on child care .

If you read deanna's blog,she says she is trying and she wants to be preggers asap. [sigh]

[Miggy]

I almost wonder if this mother is trolling. Or else the family must have converted to QF after the oldest daughter was already old enough to remember the outside world. I don't believe than any Duggar or Bates daughter would even dare to say such a thought out loud, even if they were secretly thinking it. And if they did think it, they would probably just feel like they had sinned and would berate themselves for it.

I think plenty of them do say this sort of thing but in the privacy of their own homes and at a young age, where we don't see it. No fundy blogger would ever admit to disharmony in the home on their blog.

[AtroposHeart]

Finally, one of the girls tells these parents off. Seriously, raise your own damn kids. You had them, not her.

[Jana814]

Finally, one of the girls tells these parents off. Seriously, raise your own damn kids. You had them, not her.

Agree! Poor girl probably tired of having to deal w/ kids who aren't hers & have parents who think "she will deal w/ such & such so we don't have to.

[copper]

After further thinking, this post also seems to show the different levels of adaptation/growth in QF. The Moms "hosting" the Q&A, and others like them who are "teachers leading the way" would never admit to not being able to care for all their children and that their daughters weren't perfectly towing the line. Most of the time, they would be harming their cashflow if they did so.

However, the "learners" following the teachers and living out their advice DO have struggles with implementation and don't feel the need to be quiet about it. There's also likely the beginning of hard feelings towards the "teachers" because this lifestyle was sold to them as "so perfect".

The questions also highlight the cases where it is the wife/mother of the family leading everyone else in--the kids aren't on board, and she's the one expected to handle this, not dad?

There are many cases where dad isn't on board. I've seen several 4Moms questions asking, "what do I do, he still wants to use birth control or doesn't want more children?"

[ems]

My mom was the third of 9, and none of them had more than 3 kids. Most had just 2, and 2 of them had only 1 each.

Yeah, that's not a coincidence, fundies.

My dad was one of 7. He and his siblings all have between 0 and 3 kids (I'm one of two).

His Catholic family was also one to encourage the priesthood, however. My dad was in the seminary before he met my mother, and I have an uncle (now divorced and with one kid, haha), who was a priest for a short time. Now all the siblings range from non-practicing to proudly "cafeteria-style" Catholicism.

[wtylcf]

Not unusual in big families. My mom was the second oldest of 7, and she and her older sister took care of the other five, including one developmentally delayed sibling. She was burned out on childcare by the time it came time to have her own, and decided one was plenty for her.

I know of someone who fits this pattern of burnout-before-birthing. She's an ex-fundie whose father is a cousin of my mom's and a former roommate of my dad's. Her dad dragged the entire family through various fundie sects over the years, which she calls "cults," including ATI and messianic judaism. The family had 10 kids and she was responsible for practically raising many of her sisters. She got married at 18, had three kids before the age of 25, and then decided she was done. She's now in her early 30s and seems pretty content to raise her three lovely, well-adjusted, pants-wearing, reality-tv obsessed, totally normal adolescent and pre-teen daughters.

At one point, a couple of the older daughters left home in their late teens/early 20s to rent an apartment by themselves, and supported themselves by working in retail. They were totally sick of being the main people doing the cooking, laundry, childcare and farm duties for 8 other people. They are now married and just starting to have kids in their late 20s, and seem unlikely to go the quiverfull route.

[rward]

If you read deanna's blog,she says she is trying and she wants to be preggers asap. [sigh]

Considering how much crap regular women get about not having kids, I wouldn't be surprised if LiaS's daughter says that to keep her mom and her mom's friends off her back. Infertility is the worst possible fate to these women, they wouldn't say diddly-squat to Deanna if they think she's desperately trying and not getting pregnant.