John Shrader in Burundi

[slickcat79]

^ :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

It really sounds like he's totally fine if his children die, because they are saved.

I hope someone asks him about immunizations and stuff. I'd like to hear his opinion, although I'm sure I could guess what he would say...

[Palimpsest]

^ :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

It really sounds like he's totally fine if his children die, because they are saved.

I hope someone asks him about immunizations and stuff. I'd like to hear his opinion, although I'm sure I could guess what he would say...

Yes, to the bolded. It doesn't seem to me that David Rea has updated the Team Zambia site recently. His facebook is private and John Shrader has taken over in updating the praying friends and other suckers.

It is tempting to ask Shrader about immunizations on Facebook, but I'm sure he is trusting in the Lord's protection.

I cynically think that if either of these selfish conceited oafs is the first one to get ill, they will squeal their little heads off and demand medical care and to be airlifted out of there. They both strike me as wimps. OTOH, if it is one of the children, or even the wives, then there will just be a prayer request and the victim will be told to offer the suffering up to the Lord. :angry-banghead:

But David is cherry picking his Bible again. According to Luke 14 [bolding mine, and KJV, of course.]

"26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

and

"33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple."

So, Biblically, you have to hate your wives and children and forsake/abandon them to be a true disciple.

I think David and John should forsake their families and run off to Africa by themselves. Esther and Cheri might have a much easier time trying to raise their children without these two twits, although I really hope they both have supportive extended families.

[Palimpsest]

I thought John was only half way through his fundraising. So how can he afford to go now instead of next May. Where did the money come from and why is he in such a hurry now - sounds suspicious to me!

John's fundraising is haphazard and there is no accountability we have found so far. It could simply be that he prayed about it and God convicted him that there will be enough money by Christmas so he has speeded up his plans. :shrug:

Or he saw the Guidice indictments and is trying to flee the country a couple of steps ahead of the IRS. 8-)

Or CPS is on his tail so he wants to keep his family moving and is in a hurry. Who knows?

[Whipple]

Maybe they are trying flee quickly. I've already been called out for speculating on CPS. Having said that, I do think that a case can be made for educational neglect when combined with other factors such as harsh discipline practices, children acting out, and inadequate medical care and housing (which might include heating and cooling), and/or if one of the children has a handicapping condition. Sometimes when I have called CPS as a mandated reporter, a combination of factors goes together to make a case where any one factor would not have been enough. I just talk like a motor mouth and make them listen until I am done, and since I'm mandated, they have to. In the end, they almost always follow through to some extent even if it is dropped later. This especially applies if CPS has been called in the past. Meanwhile, in other cases I've heard about, CPS doesn't even act. It's case by case it seems.

[gustava]

Embassy in Bujumbura, Burundi is closed due to terrorist threats. Guess God saved Shrader.

[already hungover]

Yes, you are right. He started with an infection in his leg that wouldn't heal. I looked up the account of it today. And yes, he would have died anyway but he could have been kept comfortable. The Wallers have a lot in common with Mother Teresa.

...I agree about the Wallers/Mother Teresa comparison. I have little more than contempt for MT, as I posted in the Royal Baby thread. I fail to see what Isaac Waller's suffering achieved for any of them. I also just reread the account of his illness and death and it was just as sickening as I remember. I vaguely recalled a post about his making some kind of stand to support his books because he wasn't able to hold them himself while reading, but couldn't find it on the Wallers' blog upon review. If my recollection is correct, the tone of the post was all impressed with how clever he was for coming up with the idea, not that it was fucking horrifying that a young, previously healthy person was rendered unable to even hold a book for himself.

[Palimpsest]

In the latest news from John Shrader's Facebook, he is whining again. [My bolding]

Thank you dear friends for praying, and thank you to those who took time to post that you were doing so. You'll never know how much those words you posted means to our hearts. It will be such an encouragement in Zambia to have this tangible awareness of people praying for us. Love you all. The Lord indeed gave Grace, but there were many tears. I was physically exhausted at the end of the day, but in spite of jet lag, lack of sleep due to time zone adjustment, and the emotions of the day, God provided the strength needed and gave much Grace. Again, thank you for praying...God answered your prayers.

Yes, it is a long way to Burundi and jet lag can do a number on you for a couple of days, but John is too young to be so physically exhausted just by "footing it" a few miles a day and talking at people over a 3 week period. He is so very wimpy.

The wondrous Sharon Bailgoat got in one of her brilliant digs at him.

And someone, possibly an FJer, pointed out in the comments that the children need immunizations as well as visas. Thanks whoever you are! :D He hasn't replied to that in the comments yet. He just posted a link to another "missionary" family in Uganda who have all survived so far.

[ILoveJellybeans]

He is such a whiny asshole. He needs to suck it up and go and do something with his life, instead of whine. No wonder he cant provide for his family, if he is whining like this about something he wants to do. Imagine if he had to do real work, he would probably whine endlessly about it and quit in a week. John is worse than Josh. Hes on the same level as Raquel, which is not good considering she is an 18 year old spoiled brat and he is an adult man with a wife and 8 kids to look after.

[Palimpsest]

Maybe they are trying flee quickly. I've already been called out for speculating on CPS. Having said that, I do think that a case can be made for educational neglect when combined with other factors such as harsh discipline practices, children acting out, and inadequate medical care and housing (which might include heating and cooling), and/or if one of the children has a handicapping condition. Sometimes when I have called CPS as a mandated reporter, a combination of factors goes together to make a case where any one factor would not have been enough. I just talk like a motor mouth and make them listen until I am done, and since I'm mandated, they have to. In the end, they almost always follow through to some extent even if it is dropped later. This especially applies if CPS has been called in the past. Meanwhile, in other cases I've heard about, CPS doesn't even act. It's case by case it seems.

If you mean me, I wasn't calling you out, and I'm sorry you felt you were. I was just asking whether you had seen any real evidence that CPS had been involved in the past with the Shraders.

Massive thread derail here: :)

I agree with MsSaylor, a report from someone just looking at internet pictures and Facebook would probably be screened out immediately. The reporter would have to have witnessed abuse/neglect in person to be taken seriously. Some states require that a caseworker goes out on every. single. report that comes in, but that is unbelievably onerous. Reports are screened and triaged for emergency, urgent, not so urgent, and "probably nowhere near the threshold for a reportable condition." It is not a first come, first serve situation. Imminent risk of death/irreversible harm takes priority.

I also agree with you that it is the combination of factors that make a case, and multiple reports are definitely helpful. So are repeat reports. Sometimes a case will be investigated and not substantiated as abuse/neglect. Sometimes it is reported again, and this time substantiated and opened because more evidence has come to light. Sometimes a case can be opened, everything possible done in making a good plan and closed -- then the whole thing falls apart and the abuse continues. There are many revolving door cases because protective services are there in an emergency capacity. They are supposed to set up a plan with other providers, close the case and move on. Success depends on the family accepting the plan, and the other providers being allowed by the family to follow through with them.

CPS is incredibly underfunded everywhere, and you would not believe the caseloads carried by CPS workers. It is a thankless job. You are blamed if you intervene, and you are blamed if you don't intervene and something dreadful happens. You just can't win. Disclaimer: I've never worked in child protective, but I have worked in vulnerable adult/elder protective services. I'm also a mandated reporter.

The other thing about the Shraders and families like them -- they fly under the radar because the kids are not in regular schools, rarely see a doctor regularly (they use ER when they absolutely have to), and live in and socialize with enclosed groups of like-mind people. They are also well versed in their rights if CPS comes calling. The late unlamented site 7xsunday pretty much coached people on how to outwit CPS reports. Also, religious freedom means that they do not have to comply with the norms of the dominant society when it comes to health care or how the children are educated. It ties the hands of CPS unless the neglect and abuse are egregious.

Google Lydia Schatz, Hana Williams (these is a thread about her now on FJ) or the Trebilcock family. These are all cases involving adopted children, but look what they got away with because of the isolation of the families! The Twitchell case in MA is also interesting because it involved Christian Scientists. The father's conviction was overturned because he was firm in his faith in refusing medical help for his son.

/End derail.

[Palimpsest]

Update: We may have an Arnaud sighting on Shrader's Facebook! I can't remember if it OK to put his actual name here or not, so I'm erring on the side of caution.

His page is private but his photos are interesting. He is a very spiffy dresser, went to university, and perhaps could well afford all those soft drinks. He also has a very defrauding picture of a girl, fashion pictures, and likes slightly unexpected TV shows, e.g. How I Met Your Mother. :P

[AmyPennyBernadette]

The wondrous Sharon Bailgoat got in one of her brilliant digs at him.

Could someone please put that on here? Sadly she hasn't added that to her blog and I'm itching to find out :pink-shock:

:lol: :D

Knowing her it's something fantastic :twisted: :nenner:

:cracking-up:

[AmyPennyBernadette]

Also *slightly off topic* did their [oh how blessed we are to be the "right" kind of Christians and bring our psychotic version of God to the heathens] videos "mysteriously" disappear from their teamzambia page? I couldn't find them when I last looked at their crazy stuff

[Palimpsest]

Could someone please put that on here? Sadly she hasn't added that to her blog and I'm itching to find out :pink-shock:

:lol: :D

Knowing her it's something fantastic :twisted: :nenner:

:cracking-up:

Your wish is my command!

Sharon Bailgoat: Praise God for you Mr. Shrader! I have been so moved by God through your work. I felt He was laying it upon my heart to donate to your cause but I know you've said he true way to help bring Christ to the people of Africa is to pray for them and people like yourself doing the lords work. Amen™

:cracking-up:

She knows just how to stick it to him!

[AmyPennyBernadette]

Thank you so much Palimpsest!

And YES! She absolutely does!!!

[AmyPennyBernadette]

And pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease let me know how he responds :nenner:

:cracking-up:

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

And pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeease let me know how he responds :nenner:

:cracking-up:

Nothing yet :(

[AmyPennyBernadette]

lol the way he behaves I doubt it'll be much time before he responds :lol:

Our dear Sharon is very persistent :nenner: :twisted:

:dance:

:popcorn2:

[Palimpsest]

I think John has responded to her once or twice. I do remember him earnestly responding over the magical accordion! :lol:

Other than that, I think most of her brilliant digs sail right over his egotistical little head! :penguin-no:

[already hungover]

Sharon Bailgoat for President!!!!

Does she post here yet? She's hilarious and subversive.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Anyone else want the follow on thread to be titled 'John Shrader, Burden to Burundi'...that seriously makes me smile everything I open this thread :)

[Rescinded and Mended]

The part that bothered me about the story of Isaac Waller was how they let him suffer for weeks and just seemed to write it off as God's will. If I recall correctly, toward the end, he was unable to even get out of bed or hold a book to read. Yes, if his leukemia was extremely aggressive, he probably would have died even in a developed country, but at least he could have been given pain medications, blood transfusions, and intravenous hydration to keep him comfortable. I just can't imagine everyone in the family being fine with just leaving this poor kid in his bed, critically ill, while they went about their missionary shit. Who does that?

Do you have a link for this? I'd be interested in reading the account.

Two of the greatest determinants in how leukemia plays out are 1) where it is located within the body, in other words, if it is confined to the bone marrow or if it has spread to other parts of the body, and 2) how symptoms present themselves. The most critical cases of leukemia are often the ones that are not caught early, where the cancer is in the organs and where the only symptom of presentation is fatigue. It's rare, but some cancer patients have no other symptoms except for the exhaustion, and a blood test may not even detect it.

My point is that a patient with an aggressive form of leukemia, if caught early enough, can often live for a number of years after diagnosis, instead of for just a few days or weeks.

I wonder, did Isaac have obvious symptoms, and did his family simply choose to ignore his condition?

[Palimpsest]

^^^

A tribute to Isaac Waller, written by his twin brother:

ati.iblp.org/ati/family/articles/students/eternalinvestment/

Note: Isaac was not without all medical care. He died as he was being airlifted out. He might have had faster diagnosis back in the US, but probably would not have survived anyway.

[Rescinded and Mended]

Thanks for the link, Palimpsest, and for the clarification.

That is so sad. But at least he wasn't alone, and his family did try to get the necessary medical help for him. It can be extremely difficult to even secure a diagnosis for leukemia, let alone in enough time to treat it.