The Truth About Ruth - Part 2 - Merge

[ILoveJellybeans]

Hmm, if RR was using the [redacted] family as inspiration/alluding that they were her family, I wonder if [redacted] comments on Recovering Grace looked like they may have become a problem for her.

In this post: recoveringgrace.org/2013/06/a-call-to-repentance/#more in the comments, a "Mary Ruth" made this comment:

"Mary Ruth June 7, 2013 Reply

Hmm... I was taught that in good etiquette, a man never should initiate a handshake with a girl! This is very old, and usually forgotten, but you see it even in the Jane Austin movies. A man can offer his hand to assist a girl, but a girl initiates the handshake. In my mind, Bill is vowing to do something on the same basic level as saying please when he asks for something!"

[redacted] is VERY active in commenting on this post. And while he defends Gothard, he does still seem to question and continually indicates his desire to find "the truth" His attitude and writing style seems different than Darth Daddy. Also, his posts within this thread clearly indicate that he does have sons working for Gothard.

If RR meant to imply that she was from the [redacted] family by planting the link to the Duggar picture, she'd have a problem with [redacted] comments. RR's announcement of DDaddy's death was May 9th. Alfred was also active then.

Mary Ruth is a very fundie name though.

Its interesting that [redacted] posted there, so if Ruth is from this family, she cant be telling the truth as he was supposed to be dead then-and sure, someone wanting to be anonymous would change details, but killing off her living father is not going to happen if he was real, considering he has posted on the comments of the blog a few times and would out her as a fake. Im guessing its either a coincidence that his family has a Ruth, Mary and Rachel and is on the wall of photos that Ruth claimed to be. Maybe she knew of them and based it on them, or just picked up on that photo as a bit of legitimacy to her story as it was the one that most fitted the family she invented.

And wow, the victim blaming that some of the fundies are engaging in to explain that Gothard is not a dirty old creep.

[tuckerphez]

I'm just popping in to say that bit with the TLC picture is an evil genius move. Not only is it a low-quality picture, it looks there are at least 3 families in that collage that sort of fit the generic description of "older children and a baby," which sends any truth-seeker on a wild goose chase and any leghumper to pick one picture and say, "Oh that's Ruth."

[Queen Of Hearts]

De-lurking to post a theory... has anyone checked out [redacted]. (Not saying she is the real RR, but that RR might have used her as the inspiration and not the other sister, [redacted]). [redacted] Just a thought....

I have to say I didn't follow RR all that closely, simply because I didn't like her as a blogger and didn't like her negativity and woe-is-me mentality. But that was just my personal opinion and I just chalked it up to a personality conflict. But when she had the adoption story I had a lot of red flags raised. I usually trust my gut when it comes to people and in this case I think my gut was right. My personal theory is that RR may have started off with good intentions and that some of her story may be true, but then the relative ease of generating income caused RR to take a new turn with her life/stories. Perhaps that is just wishful thinking on my part, though, because I always like to think people don't set out to be bad people but, rather, just turn that way due to other circumstances.

Anyway, I just thought I would come out of lurking to post my curiosity about Ruth/Mary and see what anyone else has to say.

ETA... I just checked FB and [redacted] now works as a private nanny in Taiwan.

[Mustang Sally]

Results for [redacted] online are mostly the actual [redacted], a young girl. She has a YouTube account with videos of her singing, Christmas videos, etc. - [redacted]

[Morton Fan]

Another random thought that seems suspicious: why doesn't RR have comment moderation enabled on her blog? In another anonymous blog I've read (adustyframe.com in this example), the author goes to great lengths to ensure that no one could "out" her (intentional or not) in the comments section. I find it extremely unlikely that Ruth wouldn't make use of simple comment moderation as a privacy measure, especially given the fact that her dad used to supposedly comment, that she claimed someone once left a post up for 48 hours revealing her "true" identity, etc. So she'll stop the wayback machine from archiving posts that she herself composed, but will let anonymous commenters have free reign on her blog?

[Queen Of Hearts]

Check out this one...

[redacted]

This is from the family mentioned above as she is friends with [redacted], from Illinois, etc. Pretty sure this is the [redacted] 4th daughter, [redacted]. She seems to now be living in Taiwan and working as a nanny. Can't find her middle name to determine if it is "Ruth" or not, but I have to admit I am curious.

[Mustang Sally]

Yes, from the pictures I'm fairly sure this is the same girl from the YouTube account. Didn't know she was working as a nanny in Taiwan though. Interesting.

It may not be connected at all, but it might be interesting to read her online activity just to see if there are any similarities things "Ruth" has written.

[formergothardite]

Another random thought that seems suspicious: why doesn't RR have comment moderation enabled on her blog? In another anonymous blog I've read (adustyframe.com in this example), the author goes to great lengths to ensure that no one could "out" her (intentional or not) in the comments section. I find it extremely unlikely that Ruth wouldn't make use of simple comment moderation as a privacy measure, especially given the fact that her dad used to supposedly comment, that she claimed someone once left a post up for 48 hours revealing her "true" identity, etc. So she'll stop the wayback machine from archiving posts that she herself composed, but will let anonymous commenters have free reign on her blog?

That is very odd. So she left up a post that revealed who is for 48 and nobody saw it or got a screenshot? Highly doubt it happened then.

[Queen Of Hearts]

It may not be connected at all, but it might be interesting to read her online activity just to see if there are any similarities things "Ruth" has written.

That's what I was thinking, too. Perhaps someone more familiar with the RR story line can take a crack at this.

I also checked out [redacted] FB page (and he was posting in late May, so he appears to still be living), and it says he now lives in [redacted]. So I am more an more suspicious that this family has been used in some way in this RR sham. Rather it is a rouge relative or just someone using their life as inspiration is beyond me.

[redacted]

[Lainey]

What happened to the GOMI thread on Ruth? I can't find it all of a sudden.

ETA: Oops, I found it now. Weird.

[Mustang Sally]

What happened to the GOMI thread on Ruth? I can't find it all of a sudden.

It's here - http://getoffmyinternets.net/forums/lif ... zing-ruth/

[rward]

Seriously this whole thing reeks of a scam and if so it should be known and not just quietly dropped. Nobody is saying to stalk ruth down, but if its a scam people have the right to know. She's featured on NLQ which is a pretty big site that brings in tons of traffic and more money to her site so this isn't an issue to just look away from.

Can I reiterate how I feel about Vyckie of NLQ? Yeah, not surprised her protege is scamtastic.

[chemist1217]

The daughter [redacted] is living and working in [redacted] according to [redacted] comment on the family photo. She comments on there as well.

[Mustang Sally]

[redacted] also has a Facebook, and has posted (a year or two ago) pictures of her Swagbucks account - [redacted]

I don't know if it's relevant, but just an interesting detail - [redacted]

Here's a mention of "Ruth's" Swagbucks account back in 2010 - razingruth.blogspot.ca/2010/09/more-questions.html

Fran -Why did you post the financial question and not my question? My question was how are you planning to support yourself when your blog income dries up and no one cares about you story? Why aren't you spending your swagbucks? Why don't you give money to No Longer Quivering?

Fran, I didn't ignore your question. When I do posts like these, I do them in increments. I start a post, then click over to another page or start a conversation or do something else and then come back to finish it. The last question on my last post wasn't supposed to be the end of the post but I ran out of time and decided to go ahead and post what I had. Why did I post the answer to that question? I don't know. It's been asked a lot over the last several weeks and it was just the next question on my list. Yours was, logically, the next question and here's the answer.

This blog generates very little "income". In fact, I wouldn't even classify it as "income". With the exception of one or two larger "tips", this blog might make $40 on a good month. That includes tips and the $1 I may earn from Amazon associates. Some months, there's nothing at all. It ALL HELPS and I appreciate every single dollar that someone tips. It's still not the income generator some people imagine it is and that makes me chuckle a little. I wish it was enough to be my "income". If I could blog and make enough to live that would be fantastic but I understand that only happens for a few bloggers. The swagbucks are being saved until I can buy my own laptop because that's what I told people they would go for.

[Queen Of Hearts]

I was reading through the comments here (http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2013/06/ ... ance/#more) and found this one:

Fly on the wall June 6, 2013 Reply

Hey [redacted],

I know your family and kids. Have you talked with them lately?

One of your daughters has been completely ignored by him despite wanting to serve and being asked to work at IBLP headquarters by highly qualified individuals including your son who were involved in the photo/video department.

Bill Gothard repeatedly refused suggestions for her to work at headquarters despite need and qualifications. When she speaks to him he ignores her. It was really quite sad to observe her desire to contribute be so callously ignored.

On the other hand, you have a daughter who has the "look" that he has been shown to favor. Bill would repeatedly go out of his way to only talk with her, under very personal circumstances about personal topics although she did not seek his attentions and had other interests than working for him at headquarters.

Are you unaware of these events in your own family or have you found some way to justify this unhealthy attraction and painful rejection to yourself?

Maybe if RR is connected to this family she is the daughter Gothard ignored, and hence her turning on him? Just a theory, but it sure does make you go hmmmm.....

[TrueRebel1]

Weighing in here for the first time about "Ruth". I've read occasionally on FJ about her, and her blog, but haven't kept up with her entire story. From the first time I read about her, I was a bit leery to believe her story. Now, I honestly believe there are women out there with similar upbringings and stories....but something about the way she conveyed her stories were just off, to me. For example:

Many times a day, she would gather me from my blanket or playpen, sit down to nurse me and cry. She would sit in the rocking chair, in the midst of the noise and activity generated by the boys, and stroke my back while tears poured from her eyes. When I was done eating, she’d try to create the illusion of control and happy domesticity before company or my father returned home.

(From her blog)

How would she remember this? I'm assuming if she was nursing, she was under 2 years old. Perhaps an older sibling told her? But those specific descriptions are that of a novel-writer, not someone recounting childhood experiences.

I do find many of her stories to be believable. My husband was raised in a strict ATI family, and has similar stories of punishments, scripture trainings, prayer closet, etc. So obviously she's had close contact with the ATI world. But there are so many little aspects of how she writes that just don't ring true, when I compare her to the people I know who have also come out of the ATI upbringing and the way they remember/share their stories.

I think one of the main thing that raises my suspicion about her story, is that she is "anonymous" to protect the privacy of her family. All the former ATI/fundies I personally know could care less about maintaining privacy or "outing" their parents/family.

[nokidsmom]

Another random thought that seems suspicious: why doesn't RR have comment moderation enabled on her blog? In another anonymous blog I've read (adustyframe.com in this example), the author goes to great lengths to ensure that no one could "out" her (intentional or not) in the comments section. I find it extremely unlikely that Ruth wouldn't make use of simple comment moderation as a privacy measure, especially given the fact that her dad used to supposedly comment, that she claimed someone once left a post up for 48 hours revealing her "true" identity, etc. So she'll stop the wayback machine from archiving posts that she herself composed, but will let anonymous commenters have free reign on her blog?

It's possible that she decided to not to use comment moderation as a way to make her more convincing to any doubters. She seemed to very concerned about people not believing her so maybe that was the reason.

[CallmeChaCha]

Yes, the "Ruth Razing" FB looks like an anonymized, shell profile. I'm sure she has another one somewhere, under her actual name, whoever she is.

ETA: Putting the FB link here for posterity -facebook.com/ruth.razing

Here is the post where she says that's not her real FB

Hi,

I see that my facebook isn't as private as I imagined (which is the reason my real facebook isn't public knowledge). Not that I'm too upset. It's good news that got leaked, not bad. As you've read, Harris and I got engaged on April 1st (my birthday). The reason I said someone on here might misinterpret that is because I remember the theory that my birthday was the give-a-way for my authenticity. I couldn't possibly have an April 1 birthday and be real, right? Now, I couldn't possibly get engaged on April Fool's Day, right? I'm sorry if that hurt your feelings, FJers. It wasn't meant to.

Harris was very sweet and put a lot of thought into his proposal. I'm such a lucky woman and I can't wait to continue living this life with him.

As I've said (multiple times) before - if you do not believe me or my story, that's your choice. I can't force you to believe any more than your disbelief can change my childhood. It is what it is. I do ask that you remember that I am human and it does hurt to be doubted so continuously.

I seem to be technology-challenged, but here's my attempt at providing the link

http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/6492/R ... th?page=4#

So, yeah, she was right - her bday on April 1, and that's when she got engaged - definitely iffy, although possible, but iffy.

[anjulibai]

Years ago, while I was watching the news, a story came on about a family eerily similar to my own. Parents with the same names as my parents, their daughter same name as me, living and working in similar are and jobs my parents did when I was born. It was creepy seeing another family out there that was almost exactly like mine, just with subtle differences.

I realize it's possible RR based her account on all these people mentioned here, but it's also possible she made it up off the top of her head or it's based on people without an internet presence. Similarity just isn't enough evidence.

I don't think we'll ever know anything conclusive about RR.

[Savoring Samsara]

It's also interesting to note that [redacted] appears to be a fan of Doctor Who, Lord of the Rings, Les Mis, and various other non-Gothard-approved media - yet she still has family members friended and so forth. That would certainly suggest a more liberal, open-minded family than the one described on Razing Ruth's blog.

[kaetrin]

snip

I do find many of her stories to be believable. My husband was raised in a strict ATI family, and has similar stories of punishments, scripture trainings, prayer closet, etc. So obviously she's had close contact with the ATI world. But there are so many little aspects of how she writes that just don't ring true, when I compare her to the people I know who have also come out of the ATI upbringing and the way they remember/share their stories.

I think one of the main thing that raises my suspicion about her story, is that she is "anonymous" to protect the privacy of her family. All the former ATI/fundies I personally know could care less about maintaining privacy or "outing" their parents/family.

I wrote and deleted a post saying basically this, but much less cogently. She knows the jargon too well, in my opinion, to be a total outsider, because most of the real crazy is only available to paying members. But I doubt that there are many families who actually make their living from ATI (they run the various "ministries" with an awful lot of unpaid volunteer labor, or did in the 90s anyway), so it doesn't seem like they would be so hard to identify, at least by someone who knows the current higher echelons.

[Mustang Sally]

It's also interesting to note that [redacted] appears to be a fan of Doctor Who, Lord of the Rings, Les Mis, and various other non-Gothard-approved media - yet she still has family members friended and so forth. That would certainly suggest a more liberal, open-minded family than the one described on Razing Ruth's blog.

Yeah, I noticed that too.

I also just want to reiterate that I don't really think the [redacted] family is connected - it is very likely this whole thing is made up and any similarities are coincidences. It just might be worth checking out, though, if for no other reason than to say, "No, they probably aren't connected." No one here is claiming any of the coincidences found are evidence of any kind. But to say that it's impossible to find out who is behind this is not true - there have been plenty of similar cases where the person was identified.

[nokidsmom]

Another thing is the Dad is shown as having a regular job with a defense contractor in the Chicago area. So he's not one of these insular, die-hard, "only do self-employment so you don't have to take orders from heathens or work with women" type guys, like Steve Maxwell.

[VooDooChild]

I feel sad and happy at the same time. Sad because FJists were scammed, but happy because it shows their kind nature and friendliness.

If you're willing and ready to help others you will get caught by scams now and again, but you should still be proud of yourself for being ready to aid people in trouble.

Pretty much my sentiments, also, JFC.

[Mustang Sally]

Here is the post where she says that's not her real FB

I seem to be technology-challenged, but here's my attempt at providing the link

http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/6492/R ... th?page=4#

So, yeah, she was right - her bday on April 1, and that's when she got engaged - definitely iffy, although possible, but iffy.

Tell me if I'm crazy, or if that sounds kind of like she put up a fake FB profile under her blog name, knowing that people would track it down sooner or later. It's not exactly a "leak" if you post your engagement announcement to your sooper-sekrit-yet-public-Facebook-page-that-is-trivially-easy-to-find-using-your-blogger-name.

Also, her acknowledgment of weird stuff like the April 1st date don't doesn't do anything to change their weirdness - it just makes it less likely that people who WANT to believe her story will continue to question those particular details.