Why Have Babies? Warning: Headache Inducing Logic

[Arete]

The pressure from others ("You'll never know what true love is until you have a baby", "It's different when they're your own", "There's something wrong with people who don't want children", "You should adopt if you don't want to go through a pregnancy")

I have had every single one of these lines used on me, and not exclusively from religious people. Men can get away with not wanting children of their own, but once a woman comes out of that particular closet, the "unnatural" label is often not very far behind.

[infooverload]

The questions do not stop after you start a family either I've noticed. If you have one child people start asking when is the next one coming as though children come in pairs like a salt n pepper shakers. I personally have one child and will not likely have anymore due to various reasons. I know if my husband and I were church members I'm sure there would be awkward questions, because the questions are "fine" because the person is holding you "accountable." :roll:

[rward]

What a sad situation for the parents. I don't want to be judgmental towards your friends, but don't people usually anticipate a significant loss of personal freedom, space, time, etc. when raising a young child? I don't know many parents of young kids, even really wealthy ones, who have more than maybe one night a month (very generously speaking) to go spend enjoying themselves away from the kids.

Nobody tells you that. They really don't. It's all "love, happy, fulfillment", not "you'll never pee alone again". You would not believe the shit people tell you to combine you to join them in parenthood.

I have a friend who had two kids for her husband and because "that's what you do, right?" He promised to be yhe primary caregiver. Now he spends all his time hiding in the office while she wrangles two small children she never really wanted. She's in hell. I feel terrible for her.

[2xx1xy1JD]

But statistically it really does make a difference. Of course there are plenty of women in their early twenties who are infertile, and plenty of women who will have babies up until menopause...but the chances of being infertile increase from your late twenties on. There is a dramatic difference in your likelihood of conceiving in your early 20s as opposed to your late 30s.

I don't understand why people wouldn't want to be aware of that. Even if your concerns are primarily financial, wouldn't you want to be able to intelligently weigh the costs and benefits of having children earlier vs the increased likelihood of having to pay for expensive reproductive technology.

I don't think that means that random strangers should be telling everyone to have a baby right away, or at all. But I don't think it is wise to promote the idea that most women can wait until their late 30s to have a first pregnancy when they have the perfect home, the perfect marriage, the perfect career and tons of money in the bank. To me that isn't much less realistic than the stay at home daughter who is waiting for mr. Right to fall in her lap.

It's an additional fact to consider in life planning - but NOT a reason to give up the idea of family planning altogether, and not a reason to have children that you are not prepare to raise.

Even with some of the struggles that I had with multiple miscarriages, I had no regrets about waiting a few years to start a family. The first few years of our marriage, we didn't have money and my husband was working between 80 and 100 hours/week. It wouldn't have been the best situation.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Questions along the lines of "do you plan to have children" or "do you plan to have another child" are only appropriate if the person asking is your spouse/future spouse or your doctor.

Otherwise, it's none of your business, and a simple question can trigger a whole minefield of hurt. You have no idea who may be having trouble conceiving, or who may have just had a pregnancy loss, or who may be struggling with a serious physical or mental illness, or who may be dealing with a serious financial hardship, or who may be experiencing some pretty serious marital issues, or who may be in therapy to overcome some serious childhood abuse, or who may be trying to overcome substance abuse....

I've experienced questions/comments about my plans for having kids that weren't meant to be hurtful - but they made me feel like either screaming or bursting into tears. Unfortunately, many friends have had the same experience.

[So Many Lies]

I have had every single one of these lines used on me, and not exclusively from religious people. Men can get away with not wanting children of their own, but once a woman comes out of that particular closet, the "unnatural" label is often not very far behind.

Hmmm. Yup. And I think every one of those "convincing" statements about having children are lies. I have children. I had them young. It was mainly to do with self esteem issues. I love my children and I've done my utmost not to unleash beasts on the world who'll just consume and cause problems. I can fully see why people choose not too. Don't think for one minute if I admitted this IRL that I would escape the "unnatral tag". I have to play along with the whole charade or else I'd be a monster to suggest perhaps there are other options for a fulfilling life.

[twinmama]

Oy... I was on birth control for years, and when my husband and I finally stopped and starting trying to get pregnant, we couldn't. We did the infertility thing, spent TONS of money on IUIs and a round of IVF, which thankfully worked. All that said, I would do it all again in a heartbeat versus having a kid when I wasn't ready, we hadn't planned for it and we didn't want it. Yes, it was hard, but for every story about someone waiting and having trouble, there are a zillion people who waited and didn't have any trouble getting pregnant at all. Or people who never used protection and still didn't end up pregnant. Infertility is indiscriminate. It doesn't pop up to punish you.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Nobody tells you that. They really don't. It's all "love, happy, fulfillment", not "you'll never pee alone again". You would not believe the shit people tell you to combine you to join them in parenthood.

I have a friend who had two kids for her husband and because "that's what you do, right?" He promised to be yhe primary caregiver. Now he spends all his time hiding in the office while she wrangles two small children she never really wanted. She's in hell. I feel terrible for her.

Oh, people tell me all sorts of bullshit about all the rainbows and unicorns of having babies. I don't listen to that - I observe instead! :lol: Also, with Internet anonymity, mothers are far more willing to share the sucky parts of parenting. Googling "I hate being a mom" is quite enlightening.

I've also had a stepson in my life since I was 24, so that helped, though I think my experiences with him have actually made me a little LESS scared to have a baby. I was much more "NO WAY" before, now I'm more "Maybe, probably, I'll have one."

[2xx1xy1JD]

Maybe it depends what sort of people you hang around? Most new parents that I know are pretty clear about the "you'll never pee alone" part, along with the sleepless nights. In fact, I recall one friend who greeted the news of our first baby with "welcome to hell" (since his kid was extremely colicky).

The overly rosy picture seems to come from older folks, or people that you don't know very well. I suppose a casual acquaintance could see the beautiful family, but full descriptions of projectile green poop and bleeding nipples may be TMI.

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One basic problem that I have with this line of reasoning is this: it ignores the fact that children aren't a "gift", but are more of a "trust" - we don't own them, they don't exist solely for our benefit, and they are in our care because we have the responsibility of raising them to be healthy, happy and moral adults.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I just thought about this thread as a result of 2 real-life families that I know.

Both have more kids than average. Both have mothers who love kids and were religiously motivated to have big families. Unfortunately, both are experiencing some significant struggles - not in terms of missing luxury items, but in terms of mental/physical health and basic coping ability. (I'm not going to get too specific, because I don't want to accidentally identify anyone).

[JesusFightClub]

I am not having any babies. Ever. If I (bizarrely) got married tomorrow I still wouldn't have any babies. I don't care how much anyone wants me to have them, it is NOT happening. And this is a valid (and Biblical) choice.

Harrassing women into having kids they neither want nor need, yay you, fundies. I suppose you'll be picking up the tab for the next eighteen years? No? Well, shut the fuck up then.

[Talitha Cumi]

The 'start a family' thing annoys me. Your family is already here-husband, sisters, brothers, mother, father etc. If Fundies really read the Bible Genesis says Adam and Eve were one flesh. IMO too many couples are pressured into having children for tradition./relgious sake. The decision to have children is an option not an obligation to society or anyone. America still can't seepast marriage and babies for everyone.

We are CFBC, but we are still a family. Just a family of two. :)

[lawlifelgbt]

I think my partner and I are having kids fairly young (I'll be 28, she'll be 30 when we have our first, if all goes according to plan). This is for two reasons:

1. Easier to conceive (as a lesbian couple, we'll have to use artificial insemination, which will end up being cheaper the younger we do it because it's likely to take fewer tries and fertility drugs).

2. Child, overall, is likely to be healthier and less at risk for disabilities. We disagree strongly about what to do with a mentally disabled child (Down's syndrome or similar)- I wouldn't even be willing to have or raise a child like that. So we want to reduce the risk.

But on the other hand, we'll be very likely to be able to at least meet the kids' needs, because we're RESPONSIBLE and know it costs money to raise children properly. Not to mention the "start-up" costs with conceiving as a same-sex couple necessitate that you have a good amount of disposable income before kids in the first place.

WTF, fundies? Only have kids if you can meet all of their needs (including privacy, support, comfortable living space with ENOUGH space, medical care, hospital birth), and *some* wants. Because while you don't want spoiled kids, kids also deserve fun, toys, and enrichment.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I think my partner and I are having kids fairly young (I'll be 28, she'll be 30 when we have our first, if all goes according to plan). This is for two reasons:

1. Easier to conceive (as a lesbian couple, we'll have to use artificial insemination, which will end up being cheaper the younger we do it because it's likely to take fewer tries and fertility drugs).

2. Child, overall, is likely to be healthier and less at risk for disabilities. We disagree strongly about what to do with a mentally disabled child (Down's syndrome or similar)- I wouldn't even be willing to have or raise a child like that. So we want to reduce the risk.

But on the other hand, we'll be very likely to be able to at least meet the kids' needs, because we're RESPONSIBLE and know it costs money to raise children properly. Not to mention the "start-up" costs with conceiving as a same-sex couple necessitate that you have a good amount of disposable income before kids in the first place.

WTF, fundies? Only have kids if you can meet all of their needs (including privacy, support, comfortable living space with ENOUGH space, medical care, hospital birth), and *some* wants. Because while you don't want spoiled kids, kids also deserve fun, toys, and enrichment.

Risks for disabilities like Down Syndrome are lower, but not non-existent, at age 28. Keep in mind that if your partner is carrying the child, you don't get a say in whether to test or terminate, and you are still on the hook as a parent if she carries to term a child with disabilities. OTOH, if you are carrying a pregnancy and decide to terminate, you would want the support of your partner. Finally, remember that screening and testing is not always 100% accurate, and that there are some serious conditions (such as autism) for which no prenatal tests exist. It's a risk that you take when you have kids.