34 years as a spanking-free country

[Marianne]

In theory I don't like spank or violence. I hate it. I was beatten as a child. In practice ... When the children of my roomate come to the supermark and rolled on the ground because "I WANT IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT !" "We have not monney, come on" "I WANT IIIIIIIIIIIT", to calm him I have nothing as give one or two small tap. And then ... In my country, when we succeed in eliminating all VERY abusive parent, incest, emotional abuse (which is 10 times worse than spanking once in the life of the child), we can deal with the real good parents who happens to give two or three spankings in the life of their child.

[Sumeri]

As an example (from above mentioned family):

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

[Arete]

My dad and his siblings (none of whom became spankers) could never and can never look at wooden spoons without thinking of their grandmothers and smiling. :shrug: They all adore their grannies.

[snarkykitty]

Honestly, I think legislation outlawing spanking would be both intrusive on personal rights as well as almost impossible to enforce in a country the size of the United States.

First, let's call it what it is - spanking = hitting.

I am relatively liberal, but I will not defend your (rhetorically speaking) right to hit babies and children. Somehow, hitting another adult or even an animal is considered a criminal offense and immoral, but hitting a defenseless child is okay.

If my cats do something I don't like, I don't hit or yell at them. I get their attention by snapping my fingers or pointing my finger (they get curious and want to sniff), say no, and redirect them to another activity. As an intelligent adult, I should be able to deal with things without resorting to hitting.

And for those who counter with "if you were a parent, you'd think differently," I would say, as a parent, it should be an innate behavior to not do anything that would purposely hurt my child. Let someone 5 or 10 times your size take a wooden spoon or pipe or a tree branch to your sorry a** and see what you think.

[martian]

Ha! That looks worse than roaming the car freely! Is that kid even secured? It looks like she's just sitting in a chair. Another missile in the air during a crash won't be helpful. Is that really from the 60's? It looks earlier - earlier car seats were just about boosting the kid up so they could see out and the parents could keep an eye on them. Things had changed a lot by the 70's.

Even the saner half of my family fall into that category of people for whom tales of childhood beatings are hysterically funny party reminiscences. All but one of the previous generation went on to be drastically different kinds of parents themselves, though, which I think does say something about how they really feel even if they can't admit it. To be honest, the incredible wrongness of even some of the milder (I thought) stuff that happened to me didn't strike me fully until I had my own kids. Holding my own babies made things I'd been quite blasé about suddenly incomprehensible to me. Maybe that's not an uncommon reaction, I don't know.

[Angharad Crewe]

I publically shame anyone I see doing it, and I educate people.

But, it's a country where not only are the majority totally fine with their neighbor dying of uncontrolled diabetes or becoming homeless because of an ovarian cyst, they also think it's fine to shout any sort of evil hate speech in public. It's not just legal to beat your child, it's legal in many schools to beat children. It will never ever be illegal in the US, it would require social change on the most basic level for a majority of the country. Most Americans just don't care that much for people outside their own intimates and they're too paranoid/obsessed with 'freedom' to impose decent standards of behaviour on the whole society.

When you see someone spanking their kid, what do you say to them? Just curious because in that situation I'm not sure that I would know how to react.

[hywelis]

Amen to this! I couldn't say it better.

Hywelis

[August]

When you see someone spanking their kid, what do you say to them? Just curious because in that situation I'm not sure that I would know how to react.

Depends, at the very least a stop, stare, give absolutely filthy look at the parent, making sure I catch their eye. If my child sees it I've given them a loud pointed explanation of "yes, if an adult hits someone the police arrest them. The police will arrest that mean person". If I saw more than a very quick couple of blows I'd intervene, possibly by loudly calling the police. I'd want to be sure I wasn't in danger (not a great idea to approach a violent person).

I spend a LOT of time handing out warmly reassuring smiles, comments etc when kids are misbehaving and parents are frazzled as a positive reinforcement, too. Because I know the parent might be thinking everyone around is judging and might feel the need to hit to show onlookers that they are trying. I figure just one smile or indication of understanding from a stranger will outweigh a lot of imagined judgement.

[August]

In theory I don't like spank or violence. I hate it. I was beatten as a child. In practice ... When the children of my roomate come to the supermark and rolled on the ground because "I WANT IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT !" "We have not monney, come on" "I WANT IIIIIIIIIIIT", to calm him I have nothing as give one or two small tap. And then ... In my country, when we succeed in eliminating all VERY abusive parent, incest, emotional abuse (which is 10 times worse than spanking once in the life of the child), we can deal with the real good parents who happens to give two or three spankings in the life of their child.

In this situation the child wants something, they are also refusing to move on. You're embarassed by the behaviour and frustrated because you're in a hurry.

The aim is to get out of the supermarket without the toy/candy/whatever. You have several options, what works will depend on the child's temperament, their size and the state of your fridge. The child is figuring out what works with you. Obviously this strategy works with someone in their life, but it's pretty simple to teach them what works for you.

- walk off. My kids would follow, not all would.

- pick the child up and leave the store. If leaving the store was their aim you've just lost, maybe a quick trip through the checkout with a bottle of milk would make your point. As you scoop them up a distraction, like talking about some other pleasurable thing would help. The aim is to not buy the toy, not to make them suffer.

[Diana]

Maybe this countries just need more time, when i was a child a law like that was unimaginable in my country since was normal to see parents giving a slap to punish their children and everybody see that normal.But in 2007 a law banning all spanking was passed in Spain.

Even today a lot o people think that the law is stupid, and that a little of spanking is the best for kids, people say things like "i was spanked by my parents and im perfectly normal and well behaved unlike the kids of today", but day by day you see a change, today seeing a mother giving a slap in public is not usual like a few years ago, and if she did is probably that someone will tell her that she cant do that and embarrass her.

So maybe just changing the law is a way to change the mentality of the people(well, some people will never change, but like there are still people who say that a husband should punish her wife, or that a teacher should physical punish their students to educate them)

[apple1]

In this situation the child wants something, they are also refusing to move on. You're embarassed by the behaviour and frustrated because you're in a hurry.

The aim is to get out of the supermarket without the toy/candy/whatever. You have several options, what works will depend on the child's temperament, their size and the state of your fridge. The child is figuring out what works with you. Obviously this strategy works with someone in their life, but it's pretty simple to teach them what works for you.

- walk off. My kids would follow, not all would.

- pick the child up and leave the store. If leaving the store was their aim you've just lost, maybe a quick trip through the checkout with a bottle of milk would make your point. As you scoop them up a distraction, like talking about some other pleasurable thing would help. The aim is to not buy the toy, not to make them suffer.

Sort of (slightly) related. (My daughters are adults now). Back in the day, there were no candy-free checkout aisles in the grocery store. Getting through checkout with 2 preschool kids without buying unwanted candy bars was definitely a challenge.

We talked about it ahead of time, that no candy bars were going to be purchased. On one occasion, while I was putting my groceries on the checkout belt, I turned around to see my daughter (who was in the kid seat of the cart) eating one of the candy bars. I calmly removed the partially eaten candy bar from her grasp, handed it to the checkout person while explaining that my daughter was not permitted to have it, and since the whole point of candy lining all the checkout aisles was to manipulate purchase and that it was extremely unrealistic to expected preschool kids to resist this, I would not be paying for the candy bar. Candy bar went in the trash, I did not pay for it, and the whole scenario convinced child that this behavior would not be rewarded. The end.

[bananacat]

Anyone who advocates spanking is a bad parent. Full stop, no qualifications, you suck at parenting. Every single day, baby-sitters, teachers, day care teachers, and non-parent family members manage to keep children safe from harm without ever hitting them. If you can't manage the same thing with your own children, then you simply aren't qualified to be a parent.

Also, the rights of children to not be physically hurt outweigh the alleged rights of any parent to do as they please with their property. That's actually a big part of the problem in many societies, especially the U.S. Keen is a perfect example of this. We still view children as the property of their parents, and not as actual people. Only some ridiculous idiot would think about the rights of a parent to control their property before even considering the rights of an actual person to not be hit. It's the same reason we have a fucked up adoption culture, because babies are seen as property and adults feel that they should be entitled to one or several if they can't have their own.

[Marianne]

Anyone who advocates spanking is a bad parent. .

But in this case, rather than anti-spanking campaign why not does campaigns to explain how to be "good and perfect" parent ?

As a child who was beaten and then in the home state completly neglected, I am opposed to all forms of violence, physical or psychological (and even more emotional.) But now I live with the two children of my roommates, I seriously wonder how. When I talk with people anti-spanking (and I am of this people !) they told me "positive reinforcement, it is possible to do without spanking" "but how?" "It is possible to do without spanking" "but how?" "It is possible to do without spanking." (I just said that I do not have the same version of "spanking" I thing : for me spanking is raise your hand and give a pat It is wrong because it implying violence. . But when it is pain or with swat or anything that is not spanking it's abuse !)

Apple1 and August : Thank you very much for your advice. It's me who is struggling to act because ". I'm very scared of cries b) I feel guilty for not being able to buy them because of our "poverty." They are not my children, but my roommate and I would give them a really happy life without frustration. I know this is impossible, and the guilt is there ...

[formergothardite]

Balloons. They have fucking balloons at every single cash register at the grocery stores around here. We dealt with a two year old shrieking "I WANT BAWOON!!!" every time we needed to buy groceries. It is hard to take a deep breath, tell her no and ignore the shrieks, but eventually it paid off and she stopped fussing for them. The worst part is is that half the time there would be somebody in line who would want to buy her a balloon and I would have to say no(because if she ever got one the tantrums would never end) and they would give me the evil eye and mutter about me being a horrible parent.