Jana and Jill on Parentables

[roddma]

Boob and Michelle act like Jill is gonna be involved in hanky panky at a birth or driving to and from them. Do they really distrust their kids so much?

[TheLurkingFrumper]

Pretty sure I found the Tx program Jill is doing online. It is Midwifery Institute of America. It trains young Christian women to be midwives. They actual have a location in NW Arkansas that has dorms(it is located in Witter AR) but I'm sure Jill would not be allowed to do the resident training program. After completing the online courses(which includes lots of Bible study) the website states, " Upon completion of the course we will send the student a certificate of completion. This certificate does not give the student a legal right to practice midwifery, but is an acknowledgment of the considerable amount of study that she has accomplished"

The goal of the school is to train young women to serve in Christian missions. the application process is a character assessment. Odd that the school has a physical location in AR but gives the certification via TX? Is is somehow related to ATI?

Just hope Jill can get what she needs and wants out of this program.

I honestly don't think this is the program. She says specifically, "This program, after about 3 ½ years of schooling, would give me the education I need to become a licensed, Certified Professional Midwife (CPM). My parents and I prayed and talked about this opportunity, and in May of 2012, I started midwifery school. Currently, my life consists of studying like crazy to keep up with my schooling through this distance-learning program, and at the same time, working as the senior apprentice under a local, nationally certified licensed midwife to deliver babies in an out-of-hospital setting.

So, she definitely knows the program she is in will lead to her becoming a CPM. Also, the Midwifery Institute of America is only two years for the correspondence course, and doesn't specifically mention having to study under a nationally certified licensed midwife.

I think it is more likely she is doing this program: texasmidwiferyschool.com/

It seems to fit the given information better.

[freejugar]

to me it seems sad that she's pouring her heart and soul into midwifery just to obtain a non degree that will get her nowhere

[DistantStar]

There's no national certification. It's state-by-state. And midwife certification should be way stricter than it is. I really don't like the whole CPM idea. I don't think anybody should be delivering babies without an honest-to-God full nursing degree plus additional training in midwifery as a specialty, with strict standards for qualification and genuine oversight.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

Jill mentions "long distance learning" about 70 times in her blurb - I wonder if her family is still trying to push College Minus? Or if this is yet another FU Interwebz moment - "See, heathens? Your children NEVER NEED TO LEAVE THE HOME."

[Jinger Jar]

Pretty sure I found the Tx program Jill is doing online. It is Midwifery Institute of America. It trains young Christian women to be midwives. They actual have a location in NW Arkansas that has dorms(it is located in Witter AR) but I'm sure Jill would not be allowed to do the resident training program. After completing the online courses(which includes lots of Bible study) the website states, " Upon completion of the course we will send the student a certificate of completion. This certificate does not give the student a legal right to practice midwifery, but is an acknowledgment of the considerable amount of study that she has accomplished"

The goal of the school is to train young women to serve in Christian missions. the application process is a character assessment. Odd that the school has a physical location in AR but gives the certification via TX? Is is somehow related to ATI?

Just hope Jill can get what she needs and wants out of this program.

So these graduates aren't qualified to practice midwifery in the US, but they're good enough for women and babies in developing countries (because that's where I assume these missions are located)? If that isn't problematic, I don't know what is. :x

[Coconut Flan]

I honestly don't think this is the program. She says specifically, "This program, after about 3 ½ years of schooling, would give me the education I need to become a licensed, Certified Professional Midwife (CPM). My parents and I prayed and talked about this opportunity, and in May of 2012, I started midwifery school. Currently, my life consists of studying like crazy to keep up with my schooling through this distance-learning program, and at the same time, working as the senior apprentice under a local, nationally certified licensed midwife to deliver babies in an out-of-hospital setting.

So, she definitely knows the program she is in will lead to her becoming a CPM. Also, the Midwifery Institute of America is only two years for the correspondence course, and doesn't specifically mention having to study under a nationally certified licensed midwife.

I think it is more likely she is doing this program: texasmidwiferyschool.com/

It seems to fit the given information better.

I think this program matches what Jill wrote considerably better than the previous wholly Christian program. It's still a shame that she could complete a nursing program without taking too much longer. It seems the parents put their control above all other interests and holding on to the full group of children either for filming purposes or pure selfish control as long as possible. I guess Jana has to travel with Jill to San Antonio every six months or so. I doubt it but I hope they have a pact to escape for some fun while they're out.

[JenniferJuniper]

Boob and Michelle act like Jill is gonna be involved in hanky panky at a birth or driving to and from them. Do they really distrust their kids so much?

Jill's probably the one they trust the most, but they're still terrified of any outside influences.

One could argue "Well, by now they've heard it all. They've been to plenty of big cities and just walking around or on the subway in NYC for 5 minutes, they're going to get an earful." Which is true, but I think Michelle and Boob feel they have to around to put everything in context for them. A pretty daunting task when you have 19 kids, the majority of whom will be adults in just 4 years.

[PurpleSheepleEater]

Who is this pregnant teenager that Jill knows?

"Back a few years ago, I had the opportunity to attend 12 weeks of childbirth classes with my 14-year-old friend, who was a single mom. Through these classes, I learned how to coach her during the birth of her child. Although I had attended two of my siblings’ births, being able to work as an active part of my friend’s birth made me interested in learning more"

"There are many joys of being a student midwife; for example, seeing previous clients return for subsequent pregnancies, laboring with a young, single mom who was giving her baby up for adoption,"

I can pretty much guarantee that this young lady was a friends relative, a niece maybe, or cousin. Friend came to church terribly concerned for this young relative who was pregnant and wanted to help her get away from her evil family. So they took in pregnant girl. Then Duggars became interested because they could "minister" to this girl. So Jill and Jana were assigned to pray for her, befriend her, and read the bible to her in order to lead her to a path of righteousness. In the mean time this girls relatives decided that she needed to give up the baby to a "good" christian family because if she's gotten herself into this much trouble at 14 she will probably never be a fit christian mother. Besides she's wayyyyyy too young to get married (which is the go to for older knocked up girls in fundie circles) The baby needs to be rescued for God and given a chance, so they start talking to 14 year old girl about how she needs to give up the baby. Young impressionable hormonal 14 year old wants approval from someone so she agrees. Jill offers support at the birth. Baby goes to "good" christian family. 14 year old leaves the home of the concerned fundie relative. Jill never speaks to her again. Baby is constantly watched for it's genetic predisposition to evil. Everyone congratulates them selves for ministering and being in the world but not of the world. //endscene

[TheLurkingFrumper]

There's no national certification. It's state-by-state. And midwife certification should be way stricter than it is. I really don't like the whole CPM idea. I don't think anybody should be delivering babies without an honest-to-God full nursing degree plus additional training in midwifery as a specialty, with strict standards for qualification and genuine oversight.

There actually are national certification programs, however, states are allowed to add additional requirements, or make midwifery illegal. For example, my insurance requires any midwife I work with to be certified through the American College of Nurse Midwives, which if you go to their website you will see it is a national program. They also certify non-nurse midwives. Many states accept this certification, though you still have to meet the specific requirements of a state license. There is a similar national board for CPM's. I don't remember what it is though since my insurance doesn't cover CPM's.

[longskirts]

My guess is the "friend" was someone she met outside an abortion clinic. The fourteen-year-old probably expressed fears about continuing the pregnancy without support and Jill offered to be there during the birth. Something like that.

[DistantStar]

Oh, I didn't realize, and probably shouldn't have sounded so certain. I thought all medical licensing was state-by-state, even if a lot of them have reciprocity and that. I don't think midwifery should be illegal or anything like that - I do think it should be a hell of a lot more regulated than it is in a lot of states, though.

[nelliebelle1197]

I wondered how it was that Jill knew what a semi-colon was, but was totally unable to use one correctly. Read like a legal statement that took a left turn someplace. Hmmmm, who do we know that might have a "Dim" understanding of legalese?

.

I don't know. If the parents wrote or rewrote the stories, wouldn't both stories praise the "career" choices rather than one? It cannot be that Boob wrote the stories AND that one story reflects such dissatisfaction while the other glows....

[JMarie]

I'm pretty sure that there are male Certified Nurse Midwives in the military. There are also a few male lactation consultants in the military.

I didn't mean an actual midwife program, leading to a CNM degree. I meant THIS midwifery program, full of Jesus and stuff about herbs.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

edited by Boob and Mullet to show the "girls" are happy to tow the party line.

I don't mean to pick on you-- we all make homophone mistakes-- but this mistake made me smile; I picture Jana and Jill forced to tow a big banner with the family manifesto printed on it. Somewhat like a biplane towing an advertisement in the sky.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I don't mean to pick on you-- we all make homophone mistakes-- but this mistake made me smile; I picture Jana and Jill forced to tow a big banner with the family manifesto printed on it. Somewhat like a biplane towing an advertisement in the sky.

:lol: Perhaps I should have changed my wording.

But hey, I love the image of Jill and Jana flying the biplane. Then they could get away from their parents! :)

[ILoveJellybeans]

Lol, too much opportunity to get away. Michelle would instead prefer them to be holding signs saying "Michelle is not a shit parent" and "Gothard is not a creepy weirdo", while handcuffed to a railing somewhere outside the house for passing cars to see, with her watching by webcam to make sure they are still smiling and havent crossed out "not" on the sign.

Although thats what they pretty much do, they were born to advertise their parents beliefs.

[djibouti]

I found it really sad and telling that Jill says the "timing didn't work out" for her to go to nursing school. She's 22, single and her parents have the money to fly 25 people to Asia -- I think they can pay for her to go to a state nursing school! I was one of 11 kids and after graduating highschool went to a normal 4 year college and got a nursing degree. Yes, my parents were exhausted and overworked and probably could've used my help at home, but I had my life to live. They made their choices and I made mine. It's not fair that Jill has to suffer because her parents chose to have 19 kids, and then chose to pawn them off on her and her sisters.

[JenniferJuniper]

I found it really sad and telling that Jill says the "timing didn't work out" for her to go to nursing school. She's 22, single and her parents have the money to fly 25 people to Asia -- I think they can pay for her to go to a state nursing school! I was one of 11 kids and after graduating highschool went to a normal 4 year college and got a nursing degree. Yes, my parents were exhausted and overworked and probably could've used my help at home, but I had my life to live. They made their choices and I made mine. It's not fair that Jill has to suffer because her parents chose to have 19 kids, and then chose to pawn them off on her and her sisters.

Well, TLC pays for those trips, but it's not about the money. The Duggars simply don't want their kids mixing with the sort of people who attend state nursing schools. Or as Michelle recently put it, they don't want them to get "sucked into the world".

Personally, I don't think parents are responsible for providing college educations for their kids. Not everyone can afford to educate their kids past high school, and if parents have other kids to feed and clothe things have to be prioritized. They are, however, responsible for ensuring their kids get an adequate education up until that point, and the Duggars haven't even done that.

The question has been raised about Josh, but I think it can be expanded to all of the adult Duggar offspring. At what point do adults become responsible for their own life situations? Being born into a fundie nuthouse, they started their adult lives with some serious disadvantages. But they haven't been sheltered to the point that they don't understand that most people in our society don't agree that women should be under their father's total control until they marry and then pass to their husband's control. Jill knows there are young women who attend accredited co-ed schools and graduate to become doctors and nurses. At some level all of the adult Duggars must understand that they are legally free to leave once they turn 18.

I know just thinking about breaking away would probably be very scary for them. But with each year spent as an adult unquestioningly accepting their parents’ bullshit, they lose a little bit more of my sympathy.

[snarkyjan]

Lol, too much opportunity to get away. Michelle would instead prefer them to be holding signs saying "Michelle is not a shit parent" and "Gothard is not a creepy weirdo", while handcuffed to a railing somewhere outside the house for passing cars to see, with her watching by webcam to make sure they are still smiling and havent crossed out "not" on the sign.

Although thats what they pretty much do, they were born to advertise their parents beliefs.

As an alternative, how about "Michelle does NOT suck!"?

[TheLurkingFrumper]

Well, TLC pays for those trips, but it's not about the money. The Duggars simply don't want their kids mixing with the sort of people who attend state nursing schools. Or as Michelle recently put it, they don't want them to get "sucked into the world".

Plus, if she went to real nursing school, she would have to examine a man at some point and she might see a penis before she is married!! :o

[JenniferJuniper]

Plus, if she went to real nursing school, she would have to examine a man at some point and she might see a penis before she is married!! :o

Good point.

I'm ashamed to admit I've half-wondered whether the "girls" think penises always stay looking like a 3 or 4 year old's. I mean, aside from some possible errant crotch glances (and I'm ashamed to admit Nathan Bates' crotch is suddenly coming to mind) it’s their only frame of reference after all.

[freealljs]

I'm late in the comments on this topic.

But when I read about Jill's 14 year old friend, all I could think of was how quickly Smuggar was married off five years ago. Could this have been the sin in the camp, that Smugs got a 14 year old pregnant before he got married? Oh well. I'm a big conspiracy theorist.

About Jill saying the timing was off for her to attend a nursing program. I have a friend who is in the military. Guess what? He travels a lot and somehow manages to study at an accredited university (online mostly, but he finds a way. When he's "home", he attends classes). Boob and Mullet should be honest and say that they don't want ANY of their children doing something like further their education.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I wonder if Jill realises that her parents are lying to her. There is no reason at all why she should not be allowed to go to college, if her parents really cared about her in a way that isnt selfish, they would help her find a way to live her dreams. As far as theyre concerned, their childrens wants and personalities are irrelevant.

[HereticHick]

freealljs, you are spot on about Jill's "I couldn't attend a nursing program because the timing was off" comment being total bullshit.

Exactly what scheduling restraints does this young woman have? She's "graduated" from high school, she has no regular employment, she isn't nursing sick or elderly relatives, she isn't needed to help with a family business--including farm work. She doesn't "need" to go on the screeching violin ensemble roadtrips with the rest of the herd. Other than she's needed to raise & half-assedly educate her younger siblings, she had no time restraints in the last few years. Not having $$ for tuition, I can understand. Saying that she couldn't fit higher education into her busy schedule is a lie.