Toddlers Killed More Americans Than Terrorists Did

[Effie]

Apparently, preschoolers have taken more lives this year than the single U.S. terrorist attack, which claimed four lives in Boston. In five months, 11 deaths have occurred, where the shooter was 3-6 years old... (Source: opposingviews.com/i/society/guns/toddlers-killed-more-americans-terrorists-did-year)

Something is seriously wrong with the gun-laws over there. Just saying... :pink-shock:

[gustava]

Yup.

[dairyfreelife]

Growing up around an area where hunting is popular, I can say there are laws, but too many idiots don't follow basic rules. If there are children around, you unload and store your guns in a safe when not in use. Anyone with a half a brain knows this and anyone with even a quarter of a brain knows children and guns don't mix. Sort of locking up medication and cleaning supplies, but people don't do that enough either or putting up fences around backyard pools with high locks so toddlers and little children can't easily access it.

[DistantStar]

Guns - as in properly used hunting rifles or whatnot - are tools. (Not like Dougie. They are useful and valuable.) They are dangerous tools to be handled and treated with respect. My stepdad grew up back of the back of beyond in Minnesota and they always hunted and he learned proper gun safety from childhood.

Sadly too many people (as in even one) don't grow up respecting them in that way. Because I have no problem with responsible gun ownership. But there's too much irresponsible shit happening out there. Background checks aren't going to keep them out of the hands of the idiots. Required classes even prior to purchase might help a bit.

[meep]

Yeah, gun laws can only do so much. I agree with DistantStar, they should have at least one required classes before purchase. ANd generally have more gun education. It's amazing how many people treat guns like nothing.

[docmom]

Presumably that's why other countries have laws requiring that guns be stored unloaded, securely locked and with the ammunition in a separate place. You can't stop idiots from owning guns with background checks but you can legislate safer gun ownership.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Real conversation on Babycenter:

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a1 ... hild_a_gun

this page was chock-full of crazy:

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a1 ... 33454&pd=7

[Mama Mia]

Real conversation on Babycenter:

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a1 ... hild_a_gun

this page was chock-full of crazy:

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a1 ... 33454&pd=7

:pink-shock: :shock: These people are arguing about whether a 6 year old should have their own gun :shock:

with MANY people saying, sure, 6, that's a good age for access to a lethal weapon. One person on there gave their 4 year old a 22.

Aren't there laws about this kind of thing ?????

Good Lord, people will call CPS if you let your 4 year old walk next door to the neighbors in many places - but someone is giving them a gun ? Can you imagine a 4 year old having a temper tantrum, or getting mad at their sibling - and getting access to a loaded weapon ? WTF

I'm sure these people also all say that they only use the gun under supervision and it's kept locked the rest of the time etc etc.... but all it takes is the kid finding the key for disaster to strike.

[debrand]

Real conversation on Babycenter:

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a1 ... hild_a_gun

this page was chock-full of crazy:

http://community.babycenter.com/post/a1 ... 33454&pd=7

I looked at your link. :?

osted 06/11/2009

I am not reading all of the posts, because DS just woke up screaming.... but DD (turns 5 in July) has a 22 pistol. She has seen a watermelon shot with a large calibre gun and KNOWS what it can do. Everyone says it is too young, how mature is your kid? Ivy is smart, and can grasp things on a higher level than most 4 year olds (or DH's friends) I think that we coddle our children too much. If our great grand parents were able to raise sheep and elp around the farm (and farming implements can be dangerous) why can't they learn things now?

and

sun turnip

Posted 06/11/2009

For those of you that are sooooooooooo against guns...... If for some reason we are so unfortunate that our sons and daughters are DRAFTED into war and my son knows how to shoot a gun and yours is sitting there b/c he has been lead to believe we live in a world of rainbows and butterflies.......just then you can thank him for saving your kids life.

and

sun turnip

Posted 06/12/2009

Also there were guns laying in every corner of our house growing up, we knew not to touch them. Currently we have several in a safe,under beds, and propped in corners. The child has to be made aware of his surroundings.

[Mama Mia]

I am not reading all of the posts, because DS just woke up screaming.... but DD (turns 5 in July) has a 22 pistol. She has seen a watermelon shot with a large calibre gun and KNOWS what it can do. Everyone says it is too young, how mature is your kid? Ivy is smart, and can grasp things on a higher level than most 4 year olds (or DH's friends) I think that we coddle our children too much. If our great grand parents were able to raise sheep and elp around the farm (and farming implements can be dangerous) why can't they learn things now?

This is the one that blew my mind. I LOVE how it combines promoting giving a gun to a 4 year old, which seems like one of the most reckless acts EVER, with the snippy, braggin my child is smarter than yours statements.

Maybe it's just my kids.... but at 4 if they had seen a watermelon shot with a gun and knew what it could do, they would have made it their life mission to go shoot everything in sight. Like a cartoon, cause you know, they are little kids with no sense of permanent damage.

ETA: Sorry debrand, I messed up the quote and it looks like you are saying you gave your 4 year old a gun !

[debrand]

This is the one that blew my mind. I LOVE how it combines promoting giving a gun to a 4 year old, which seems like one of the most reckless acts EVER, with the snippy, braggin my child is smarter than yours statements.

Maybe it's just my kids.... but at 4 if they had seen a watermelon shot with a gun and knew what it could do, they would have made it their life mission to go shoot everything in sight. Like a cartoon, cause you know, they are little kids with no sense of permanent damage.

ETA: Sorry debrand, I messed up the quote and it looks like you are saying you gave your 4 year old a gun !

:lol: I didn't even let my kids play with nerf guns

[Val78]

Yeah, my 4 year old is pretty smart and also has the unstable *normal* temperament of being a toddler so that he too would probably take to anything when pissed off, if he had his own gun. Not because he's horrible violent or bad, but because he lives in his own little self-centered world where the Easter bunny still exists and he has to be bribed to not pee in his bed. Not a good gun owner;)

[ADoyle90815]

I looked at your link. :?

and

and

Another one from the craziest page on that thread:

Bagel8

Posted 06/11/2009

Gun safety is an oxymoron! You people are seriously delusional if you think that exposing children to guns young will build respect. It will build comfort. You've all been brainwashed by the NRA!

[Ruby Slippers]

::claps hands:: People. Pay attention. It only matters if the toddlers who did these killings were brown Muslims. Otherwise, it is just tragic happenstance. Amirite?

[Savoring Samsara]

sun turnip

Posted 06/11/2009

For those of you that are sooooooooooo against guns...... If for some reason we are so unfortunate that our sons and daughters are DRAFTED into war and my son knows how to shoot a gun and yours is sitting there b/c he has been lead to believe we live in a world of rainbows and butterflies.......just then you can thank him for saving your kids life.

Wow, I didn't realize that when people are drafted into the military, they receive no basic training whatsoever and are literally just given a gun and tossed into combat and told to figure it out. :confusion-shrug:

[lilith]

That is just insane, and so shocking. Apart from the fact that guns kill people and preschoolers don't have a firm concept of the finality of death, the first time I shot a gun, in my late teens, I nearly fell over backwards. Guns kick back, how on earth could a toddler even fire one, and why would you want them to? Does anyone really think that their four year old is going to be left in a situation where they need a gun to defend themselves?

If my kids saw a watermelon being shot they would think it looked awesome and want to shoot ALL the watermelons. They would in no way relate it to what that same bullet would do to someone's head.

It's just insane that anyone thinks that guns for preschoolers is ok in any way. Even in colonial times here (Australia) settlers wouldn't teach their kids to shoot until they were ten or so, and that's in an environment where hunting was a necessary skill. There is no need for any child to use a gun.

[Arete]

There is no fixing this level of stupid except for letting the deep end of the gene pool take care of business.

[dairyfreelife]

The only gun I knew about at age 5 was a water gun and you were only allowed to squirt water with them. I didn't shoot a BB Gun until I was like 12 or older and only shot a rifle once. Why would anyone want their child to have that? That's like giving a car to a 5yo. But my child's mature enough to operate adult machinery!!!!! is still bullshit if they are 5. They can't even see over the wheel and have zero knowledge of what a car does. Driving a car is for adults and it's not a toy and it's not a game. It's a 2-ton or more piece of metal machinery and requires serious training. It can easily kill if not careful. A gun is no different. It's for adults to use and it's not a game and it's absolutely not a toy. It's a machine that is used to kill things, mostly animals, and it can and has killed people. It is NOT a toy! If it's not a toy, children should be nowhere near it. The end.

[fundyfunland]

Wow! Can we please merge this discussion into it's proper place (ie. with the Peanut Butter/Immunization Wars threads).

And now I have questions:

1) Why is it ok for ANYONE aside from law enforcement/army to have guns?

2) For those saying there's no need for a background check, it won't stop the idiots from owning guns - please

back up your argument!

And back to scheduled programming - that someone gave their toddler a .22 is absolutely insane!!! I'm not surprised that then, that more toddlers killed Americans than terrorists, if you have idiot people like this raising kids. That being said, a background check, depending on the type of check that is done, might actually weed out idiots like these parents from getting guns/giving guns to their kids. In fact, given the deadly consequences of a gun in the wrong hands (a house full oftoddlers, an angry parent w/ no coping skills, etc.), perhaps background checks should even involve visits by CPS. ARe the parents mentally fit to have lethal weapons in their home? Do they have a plan about teaching gun safety to their kids? Have their kids shown adequate respect towards others, and demonstrated a respect for human life enough that the gun won't be used improperly (to me this means anything other than hunting, but even hunting is crossing the line - personal belief, I know)?

[Arete]

1) Why is it ok for ANYONE aside from law enforcement/army to have guns?

In the US, there are many communities that still hunt for food. In addition, if you live on a farm or a ranch, animals need to be defended or put down at times, it's just part of the cycle. Not everyone lives in an urban or suburban environment.

I absolutely believe in background checks, and even stronger ones than what are currently in place. However, they are still not going to keep guns out of the hands of idiots. It's like going for your driving test. Are you really going to drive over the speeding limit or show up drunk on the day of your road test? So you have to concentrate on keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and the medically unstable. Those tools willing to give their 4 year old guns? They will LIE to get a gun, and then let their 4 year old touch it because they are so mature (God, that one just about caused me to slap myself). Put a law in place that says if your underaged child kills someone because you did not secure your gun, you go down for MURDER.

[Mama Mia]

Wow! Can we please merge this discussion into it's proper place (ie. with the Peanut Butter/Immunization Wars threads).

And now I have questions:

1) Why is it ok for ANYONE aside from law enforcement/army to have guns?

2) For those saying there's no need for a background check, it won't stop the idiots from owning guns - please

back up your argument!

And back to scheduled programming - that someone gave their toddler a .22 is absolutely insane!!! I'm not surprised that then, that more toddlers killed Americans than terrorists, if you have idiot people like this raising kids. That being said, a background check, depending on the type of check that is done, might actually weed out idiots like these parents from getting guns/giving guns to their kids. In fact, given the deadly consequences of a gun in the wrong hands (a house full oftoddlers, an angry parent w/ no coping skills, etc.), perhaps background checks should even involve visits by CPS. ARe the parents mentally fit to have lethal weapons in their home? Do they have a plan about teaching gun safety to their kids? Have their kids shown adequate respect towards others, and demonstrated a respect for human life enough that the gun won't be used improperly (to me this means anything other than hunting, but even hunting is crossing the line - personal belief, I know)?

To the bolded, nobody here has said background checks aren't needed. They have said that even background checks won't screen out idiots. Those aren't the same things at all.

And since no one is warring here about this - why should it be viewed as similar to the peanut butter or immunization wars ? There seems to be a range of beliefs about gun ownership - but no one here has said they think giving little kids guns is a good idea.

[OkToBeTakei]

In the US, there are many communities that still hunt for food. In addition, if you live on a farm or a ranch, animals need to be defended or put down at times, it's just part of the cycle. Not everyone lives in an urban or suburban environment.

I absolutely believe in background checks, and even stronger ones than what are currently in place. However, they are still not going to keep guns out of the hands of idiots. It's like going for your driving test. Are you really going to drive over the speeding limit or show up drunk on the day of your road test? So you have to concentrate on keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and the medically unstable. Those tools willing to give their 4 year old guns? They will LIE to get a gun, and then let their 4 year old touch it because they are so mature (God, that one just about caused me to slap myself). Put a law in place that says if your underaged child kills someone because you did not secure your gun, you go down for MURDER.

Better still. Ban guns.

Homicide by gun in Scotland 2012 zero.

Homicide by gun in US 2012 9146.

The US has the same rate of homicide by gun per 100,000 population as the West Bank and Gaza.

Hunting and sport are not banned in Scotland there are 280,000 civilian gun owners for this purpose, so not like those who survive by hunting or require for legitimate (farming) means, suffer. Bearing in mind there is a total ban on handguns. The civilian gun ownership in the US is 270,000,000.

This and other useful facts brought to you from the person that cannot believe Kinder eggs are banned in the US as a hazard, but guns are just fine for kids.

[OkToBeTakei]

To the bolded, nobody here has said background checks aren't needed. They have said that even background checks won't screen out idiots. Those aren't the same things at all.

And since no one is warring here about this - why should it be viewed as similar to the peanut butter or immunization wars ? There seems to be a range of beliefs about gun ownership - but no one here has said they think giving little kids guns is a good idea.

I think what annoys me most is the fact that by saying this makes it inflammatory. No shit sherlock, guns are always going to be controversial and opinions will differ. To liken exchange of views to the 'peanut butter wars' (which actually if you ever read it, is quite interesting) is almost like saying ZOMG don't talk about that or get the popcorn ready. So what. If people do not want to get involved in discussions stay out of them. Really annoys me people bring up those topics as if they should not be discussed because people have already discussed them and ZOMG it's drama. The forum is fluid and people move on. They should be able to discuss whatever they want and those who want to swerve it, can.

[Mama Mia]

Better still. Ban guns.

Homicide by gun in Scotland 2012 zero.

Homicide by gun in US 2012 9146.

The US has the same rate of homicide by gun per 100,000 population as the West Bank and Gaza.

Hunting and sport are not banned in Scotland there are 280,000 civilian gun owners for this purpose, so not like those who survive by hunting or require for legitimate (farming) means, suffer. Bearing in mind there is a total ban on handguns. The civilian gun ownership in the US is 270,000,000.

This and other useful facts brought to you from the person that cannot believe Kinder eggs are banned in the US as a hazard, but guns are just fine for kids.

270,000,000 gun owners ???? Do you mean actual owners, or the total number of guns in the U.S. - because there are about 315,000,000 people in the U.S. - including children - and I find it hard to believe that only 45 million don't have guns. That's making me paranoid - am I the only one for miles around who isn't armed ?? :shock:

[OkToBeTakei]

270,000,000 gun owners ???? Do you mean actual owners, or the total number of guns in the U.S. - because there are about 315,000,000 people in the U.S. - including children - and I find it hard to believe that only 45 million don't have guns. That's making me paranoid - am I the only one for miles around who isn't armed ?? :shock:

Quick. Go buy one! :lol:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... world-list

I'm assuming that some own multiple guns.