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Anxious Girl

Why Fundies Support Israel

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Anxious Girl

Why American Christian fundies support Israel: http://www.secularnewsdaily.com/2010/06 ... srael-why/.

 

Apparantly, this is what fundie families who're into politics such as the Duggars believe:

 

 

Quote
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled (Luke 21:20-24).

 

Until the rise of dispensationalism, this was viewed as a reference to the conquest of Jerusalem by Rome in 70 AD. Dispensationalism “moves†this destruction to a future holocaust, at which time 2/3 of Israel’s people will be slaughtered (Zechariah 13). Before the re-establishment of Israel in 1948, the “people of Israel†were viewed as Jews, worldwide. (Was Hitler trying to bring about the Rapture?) Now, Israel is again a specific place.

 

North continues his explanation:

 

 

In order for most of today’s Christians to escape physical death, two-thirds of the Jews in Israel must perish, soon. This is the grim prophetic trade-off that fundamentalists rarely discuss publicly, but which is the central motivation in the movement’s support for Israel. It should be clear why they believe that Israel must be defended at all costs by the West. If Israel were militarily removed from history prior to the Rapture, then the strongest case for Christians’ imminent escape from death would have to be abandoned. This would mean the indefinite delay of the Rapture. The fundamentalist movement thrives on the doctrine of the imminent Rapture, not the indefinitely postponed Rapture.

 

Every time you hear the phrase, “Jesus is coming back soon,†you should mentally add, “and two-thirds of the Jews of Israel will be dead in ‘soon plus 84 months.’†Fundamentalists really do believe that they probably will not die physically, but to secure this faith prophetically, they must defend the doctrine of an inevitable holocaust.

 

This specific motivation for the support of Israel is never preached from any fundamentalist pulpit. The faithful hear sermons – many, many sermons – on the pretribulation Rapture. On other occasions, they hear sermons on the Great Tribulation. But they do not hear the two themes put together: “We can avoid death, but only because two-thirds of the Jews of Israel will inevitably die in a future holocaust. America must therefore support the nation of Israel in order to keep the Israelis alive until after the Rapture.†Fundamentalist ministers expect their congregations to put two and two together on their own. It would be politically incorrect to add up these figures in public.

 

This is also probably why there aren't many Christian fundie missionaries in Israel. The people who believe this are being voted into the American government. This is some scary fucked up shit. :pink-shock:

Edited by OnceUponATime
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Sola

You dig deeper and you find this goes back decades in American politics. Reagan himself supported this view. He thought that Israel must be supported at all costs to ensure the rapture occurs. It goes right back to the creation of Israel. But it really took hold during the Raegan years. Is there any wonder the Palastinians feel pissed?

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Jeneric Duggar

So - and please excuse me if I'm being slow - Christian fundamentalists support Israel because they want to keep the Jews alive but only until the rapture when it will be okay if two thirds of them die? Have I understood?

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Sola

Yes. Because, well...... Jesus, basically.

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Jeneric Duggar

Jesus must be so proud of them.

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Sola

And it also goes some way to explain why these people hold liberals in such distain. Liberals, in general, want reform in the middle east. They want Palastinians to have a voice and want an end to the apartheid in the great Israeli area.They recognise that the system in place now, the system which is financially backed by the US primarily (and the rest of the West secondary) has given rise to the sense ofinjustice that has been a major cause of Islamic fundamentalism. Reform however would scupper the plans of the powerful Christian fundamentalists to bring the rapture. Therefore librools are godless heathens and are in league with the mooslims.

And that, my friend, is the situation in a nutshell.

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formergothardite

I never ever understood the rabid way that Israel must be supported. On that blog where the lady tells atheists why they don't believe in God, she says that Israel is the biggest proof that Jesus and the Bible is real. It is interesting that up until recently those verses were interpreted differently as having already happened.

I bet it would be very, very hard to get any of them to admit that they only want Israel to exist so that most Jews can die and they can live.

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debrand
I never ever understood the rabid way that Israel must be supported. On that blog where the lady tells atheists why they don't believe in God, she says that Israel is the biggest proof that Jesus and the Bible is real. It is interesting that up until recently those verses were interpreted differently as having already happened.

I bet it would be very, very hard to get any of them to admit that they only want Israel to exist so that most Jews can die and they can live.

Sarah Mally says something similar. They must pass around talking points.

My grandmother used to say, "Once Israel becomes a nation, not a generation will pass before Jesus returns. " Not to be disrespectful to my beloved Nan, but she and my mom are dead and I don't see a sign of Jesus.

Supposedly, the antiChrist will first bring peace between Israel and Palestine so any politician that manages that feat will be looked upon as evil incarnate. It is why I don't see a religious right politician ever finding a solution. He/she believes only the antiChrist will succeed and then only to set up the ancient Jewish temple so that the antiChrist can be worshipped there. (seriously, I was taught this)

I was told that 2/3rds of the entire world population would die, not just Israel.

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formergothardite

I don't really understand why Israel is the biggest proof that Jesus is real. Even reading the explanations it doesn't really make sense. I'm sure Jewish people don't agree that their existence is the biggest proof of Jesus being the Son of God.

I mostly tuned out the prophecy stuff when I was a Christian because even then it always seemed like they were just grasping at straws and trying to either adjust the prophecy to fit a situation or adjust the situation to fit the prophecy, but I do remember it being said that 2/3rds of the world would be killed. I remember as a child this preacher saying that God had made it clear that Jesus would return before he died and all the signs pointed to that. He has been dead for a couple years now and unless most Christians missed it, Jesus hasn't raptured anyone yet. People really take this stuff seriously and after awhile of thinking this way every little thing becomes a "sign."

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Anxious Girl

* bumping this up because of Syria * Fundies want this to happen: http://www.raptureready.com/featured/gi ... ah_17.html. Here is a disgusting quote:

“This message came to me concerning Damascus: ‘Look, Damascus will disappear! It will become a heap of ruins. The cities of Aroer will be deserted. Sheep will graze in the streets and lie down unafraid. There will be no one to chase them away. The fortified cities of Israel will also be destroyed, and the power of Damascus will end. The few left in Aram will share the fate of Israel’s departed glory,’ says the Lord Almighty.†Isaiah 17:1-3 (NLT)

“Then at last the people will think of their Creator and have respect for the Holy One of Israel. They will no longer ask their idols for help or worship what their own hands have made. They will never again bow down to their Asherah poles or burn incense on the altars they built.†Isaiah 17:7-8 (NLT)

Why would they honor a God who selfishly destroys the creations He supposedly loves?

Today’s Headlines

Looking at today’s geopolitical landscape, it’s not difficult to envision the scenario outlined in Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83. Syria has been adamant in its demand that Israel surrender the Golan Heights, threatening war if Israel fails to comply. Meanwhile, the summer 2006 war between Israel and Hezbollah has apparently convinced leaders in Damascus that Syria can be victorious in a conflict with Israel by simply overwhelming the tiny nation with rocket attacks. From a greater perspective, it has convinced the entire Islamic world that Israel isn’t the militarily invincible nation they once thought.

Ah, so it's a self-fullfilling (sp?) prophecy. :roll:

These Christian fundamentalist rapturists (is that even a word? Well, it is now to me, anyways) are disturbingly sick in the heads. Why would you need to kill people in order for others to worship your God? Is it because they want a totalitarian Christian theocratic government, or am I being paranoid? Wouldn't an all powerfull God not need a self-filling prophecy? What kind of a kind, loving God destroys its creations to make non-believers worship Him/Her?

Thoughts? :think: I personally think rapturists are batshit insane. Are Duggars rapturists? Do you think they are?

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polecat

Wow, this is not at all something I've ever heard -- and I was born and raised fundy.

Everything I ever heard was that they were God's chosen people and that God will bless those who bless His chosen people.

The two-thirds supposedly referred to the entire population of the earth.

If I had to venture a guess, I'd say this was an exceedingly sick offshoot of fundydom although it may well be getting bigger.

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anjulibai

My mother, who grew up a Catholic, was always taught that 1) Jesus would be born in human form the same as before, and would still have to be a Jew and 2) that while yes, Israel had to be established, it wasn't because it had to be destroyed eventually, but so that Jesus could reign as King of the Jews. Jews having to die for Armagheddon to occur wouldn't make since to her, because Jesus is their Messiah, first and foremost. Even if Jews don't recognize Jesus, the way she was raised this was actually a good thing, as Jesus had to be born a Jew.

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Ariel

Doesn't human manufacture of the rapture invalidate it?

If people are purposefully pushing for political events that mimic the rapture, just so they could be raptured, wouldn't that angry God they love so much get offended and maybe punish them in some other form?

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OkToBeTakei
Doesn't human manufacture of the rapture invalidate it?

If people are purposefully pushing for political events that mimic the rapture, just so they could be raptured, wouldn't that angry God they love so much get offended and maybe punish them in some other form?

That would be.........ironic.

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snarktastic

Gore Vidal wrote some great stuff on how this thinking affected the Reagan administration. I can't remember which book of course :D

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Ms Jess

I know lots of people who support Israel at all costs because of this. It's quite common to see bumper stickers where I come from that read, "Wherever I stand, I stand with Israel."

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ADoyle90815

That would be.........ironic.

Even more ironic would be for those fundies to be sent to hell for getting in the way of God's plan, as from what I remember from the Bible, even Christ doesn't know when he'll return.

It could be said that the end of the original version of Planet of the Apes is probably how Jesus would react.

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Nothing2CHere

This is what I, as a Catholic, was pretty much taught about the rapture in my 5th grade religion class: It's going to happen one day, but we won't be around to see it. It's not going to happen for a long, long, long, long, long time.

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