Mormon woman dies after 6th child (complications)

[Mama Mia]

How mind blowing some of these comments are :shock:

There is one type of midwife in the UK. They study for four yours and have a BsC degree. There is no other type (unless trained before the year 2000 change in Nursing and midwifery education. Although even then the training was rigorous and 3-4 years and most if not all through continuing professional development attained degrees via CAT points transfer. As in most nursing disciplines you do not qualify one day and become 'the expert' you work your through each midwifery discipline before being say senior enough to you know do seniory things.

All care is shared care. ie. GP- Midwife- Consultant. I saw my GP after I did my own test. He then refers to the Maternity services. I saw my Midwife at 6 weeks for clerking in. Discuss testing, nuchal scans, blood tests, amnio etc. Start birth plan. If wanted a nuchal scan at 9 weeks. If not regular scan at 12 weeks. If I recall I saw my midwife 4 weekly then a further scan at 20-22 weeks. After 30 weeks saw midwife fortnightly then weekly after 36 weeks. I met my consultant twice. 24 weeks and 38 weeks.

IF my birth had required a planned caesar then it would have been my named consultant. If an emergency then the rotational Consultant or Registrar on duty.

My midwife was there from the start of my labour (induction) My birth plan went out of the window after 8 hours sod that pain at 4 cm dilated :lol: Anaesthetist did my epidural them my midwife took back my care. Little miss OK got stuck and I required forceps and episiotomy. Episiotomy was done by the midwife delivery by a registrar, midwife did the stitch up.

I think my care is fairly typical across NHS trusts. Homebirths are fine too I believe although two midwives will attend I believe.

I am fairly certain not everybody gets exactly maybe the birth they want, the system is not perfect. But I have never heard it being about golf or money. Litigation though is as contentious as everywhere else.

Length of stay is dependent on baby/maternal health but generally between hours if you choose and all is well. Or like my friend 5 days. She likes to settle her new baby and recharge before jumping back home. (5 kids :lol: )

After that you are handed off to community midwives who see you daily for 2 weeks followed by health visitor. Then back to GP. Health visitor until age 5 I think.

There is no other type of midwife. No half arsed training. Just either a midwife or not a midwife. I think tensions can exist between consultants and midwifes. What's new? I'm an RMN and sometimes I find the consultant Psychiatrists I work with twats and vice-versa. Nurses tend to be patient focussed consultants tend to look at the medical model. It is why multi-disciplinary team working is crucial for holistic person/patient centred care.

The level of care you receive through your system always astounds me. I am so incredibly jealous - and furious that in the U.S. there is nothing remotely similar.

No community midwives who come to see you, no health visitors, no staying for 5 days in the hospital ( my daughter, was kicked out after 3 days from her csection - despite requiring a transfusion just minutes before - just to get her strong enough to make it out the door - she couldn't even stand without fainting -and they still kicked her out ).

Every single health care choice in the U.S. is based on money.

[OkToBeTakei]

The level of care you receive through your system always astounds me. I am so incredibly jealous - and furious that in the U.S. there is nothing remotely similar.

No community midwives who come to see you, no health visitors, no staying for 5 days in the hospital ( my daughter, was kicked out after 3 days from her csection - despite requiring a transfusion just minutes before - just to get her strong enough to make it out the door - she couldn't even stand without fainting -and they still kicked her out ).

Every single health care choice in the U.S. is based on money.

Yet people in the UK complain every day about the NHS. I really wish some could and would read here. I had a friend who complained vehemently because her son's orthotic appointment took 4 weeks. He has a slightly in-turning left foot which will be fixed by good Start-rite shoes. I would love to show her a comment I read here about the costs a member here discussed after having to call an ambulance for a parent. I cannot remember who, but the story haunted me. The amount of debt she was left with. Or those with chronic health conditions. The system can be flawed but never will they need to face financial hardship to pay for medical costs. It makes me see red.

Having grown up with this system I don't think about it often, I can see why for those not so familiar, how socialised healthcare can seem some monster. I don't though, understand that. :(

[Rescinded and Mended]

Yet people in the UK complain every day about the NHS. I really wish some could and would read here. I had a friend who complained vehemently because her son's orthotic appointment took 4 weeks. He has a slightly in-turning left foot which will be fixed by good Start-rite shoes. I would love to show her a comment I read here about the costs a member here discussed after having to call an ambulance for a parent. I cannot remember who, but the story haunted me. The amount of debt she was left with. Or those with chronic health conditions. The system can be flawed but never will they need to face financial hardship to pay for medical costs. It makes me see red.

Having grown up with this system I don't think about it often, I can see why for those not so familiar, how socialised healthcare can seem some monster. I don't though, understand that. :(

I have a UK friend on my Facebook page that posted an article about a young English girl who grew up poor and in bad circumstances. She got pregnant at 12 and again a couple of years later, both kids by the same guy. The girl is now 17 with two kids under the age of 5.

My friend and I had a long debate about this. She kept saying how the girl "was from a bad area" and how she's never be able to improve her lot in life or that of her kids. After reading through the article, I was astonished that the girl had not only finished high school, but had two semesters of college credits under her belt, all because her county provided child daycare for her little ones 5 days a week.

I made it very clear that here in the U.S., there are plenty of people that are unable to break the cycle of poverty because they don't have access to similar resources that this young English girl has. The fact that the girl is simply able to go to school and get her degree greatly improves her odds of being able to provide for her children in the future. We do have social programs including health care and food stamps, but our government sometimes makes it difficult to access them, especially when their availability is so dependent on specific amounts in income per year. And even if you can access medical care and food assistance here, not having a weekday babysitter can make the difference between getting ahead financially in life and staying behind. Daycare costs in the states can easily devour an entire income.

*I'd like to provide a link to the article, but when I checked my friend's page, she'd taken it down - maybe she wasn't too crazy about learning the hard facts?* :whistle:

[2xx1xy1JD]

To be fair, my Canadian OB offered me options with my first breech baby: ECV (turning the baby), vaginal breech delivery, or planned c-section. He was quite surprised when I chose the c-section, and asked me for the reasons for my choice. He agreed to do it, but did NOT push it all all. He was also willing to do a VBAC with baby #2, until it was clear that she was also breech.

My only issue with the Canadian system is that there isn't more coordination between the midwife care model and the traditional OB model. Unlike the UK, midwives practice independently in their own practice groups, and it can be a bumpy transition for someone who risks out or has something go wrong - my friend who had a stillbirth couldn't get a referral for a D&E and things weren't resolved until she contacted her old OB. OTOH, the way that my sister described her midwife appointments sounded so much better than my OB appointments.

[littlemommy]

I really need to stop reading this thread; it is baaad for my pregnant, overly hormonal brain. Between the "I know 10 women whose babies died in the hospital" to "800% of home deliveries result in death, yo!" (I'm misquoting both, I'm giving exaggerated examples ;) ) I'm nearly convinced that this baby is fated for death. I've had medically necessary c-sections and must have a third. I won't be posting afterward because I'll be dead, most likely. ;)

[Rosa]

I had the best of both worlds - an excellent nurse-midwife in a midwife-and-OB practice 100% covered by my HMO. So when I turned out to be high-risk, I started seeing an OB in the same practice. Unfortunately, that clinic doesn't support home births, so if I'd started out wanting that getting more specialized medical care would have been more difficult - it's hard to transfer in to any practice in a hurry, around here, as I've learned every time our insurance changes and I have to find a new primary doctor.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I really need to stop reading this thread; it is baaad for my pregnant, overly hormonal brain. Between the "I know 10 women whose babies died in the hospital" to "800% of home deliveries result in death, yo!" (I'm misquoting both, I'm giving exaggerated examples ;) ) I'm nearly convinced that this baby is fated for death. I've had medically necessary c-sections and must have a third. I won't be posting afterward because I'll be dead, most likely. ;)

Aww, don't say that, littlemommy. We're all wishing you a healthy pregnancy and a well-born child. :) :wink-kitty:

[meda]

I really need to stop reading this thread; it is baaad for my pregnant, overly hormonal brain. Between the "I know 10 women whose babies died in the hospital" to "800% of home deliveries result in death, yo!" (I'm misquoting both, I'm giving exaggerated examples ;) ) I'm nearly convinced that this baby is fated for death. I've had medically necessary c-sections and must have a third. I won't be posting afterward because I'll be dead, most likely. ;)

Right there with you. Must remember to avoid the childbirth threads now that I'm getting close. Although, if my OB suddenly turns into a scalpel wielding criminal who straps me down to perform a c section without informed consent, I'll be sure to come back and post it so all the rabid home birthers can say "I told you so" :roll:

[Irishy]

I'm laughing at the midwife vs OB vein running through this thread. Boy, midwife is a dirty word in the US.

Like OKTBT said, there is only one type of midwife in Ireland (similar to UK). They have all completed a 4 year degree or transferred to a post grad from general nursing. There are a tiny few "independant midwives" practicing home birth but they all have at least this degree. You have no choice here, there are no nurses in maternity hospitals. Only midwives and doctors. Doctors do not deliver straightforward cases. Midwives do. Obstetricians turn up when a pregnancy is high risk, when a baby is not happy during delivery etc. Most women delivering in Ireland do not want to see a doctor entering the room as it means something is not quite right.

[Savoring Samsara]

I had the best of both worlds - an excellent nurse-midwife in a midwife-and-OB practice 100% covered by my HMO. So when I turned out to be high-risk, I started seeing an OB in the same practice. Unfortunately, that clinic doesn't support home births, so if I'd started out wanting that getting more specialized medical care would have been more difficult - it's hard to transfer in to any practice in a hurry, around here, as I've learned every time our insurance changes and I have to find a new primary doctor.

I had a similar experience with the birth of my son (started with midwives in a shared practice, transferred to the OBs when I wound up needing a last-minute c-section, was treated with humanity and respect by both groups), and have continued to get the same high quality of care now that he's on the outside. As it turns out, my husband and I made a lot of the crunchy parenting decisions but also wound up having the bad luck to spend more time in hospitals and clinics with our little guy so far than we would have liked thanks to a never ending revolving door of routine childhood viruses and infections that just decided to make themselves known all at once. Many of our friends whose decisions also tend toward the "natural" end of the spectrum seem convinced that the instant that you darken a maternity ward or emergency room door, BIG MEDICINE will pump everyone full of drugs, slice you open against your will, forcibly wean your kids and shove them in a crib to cry for hours, and chop off your son's foreskin without your consent - and you know, that just has never happened for us. Times have changed. Virtually all of the medical personnel we've encountered have been completely respectful of our parenting decisions and have never pressured us to change anything we're doing. In many cases they've even encouraged us to continue doing these supposedly countercultural things (e.g., extended breastfeeding) that the medical profession supposedly NEVER supports.

I don't doubt that those here who have shared horror stories are telling the truth about what they experienced. (And yeah, I also recognize that my status as a white, educated, middle-class, native English speaking, heterosexually married, professional appearing 31-year-old woman probably has something to do with doctors being willing to respect and listen to me.) But I do think it's important to add that there is a very large population of medical personnel (dare I say a majority?) who are caring, respectful of multiple viewpoints, and extremely skilled at what they do. I sincerely hope that those of you who need them will meet them soon.

[DrWhat]

I really need to stop reading this thread; it is baaad for my pregnant, overly hormonal brain. Between the "I know 10 women whose babies died in the hospital" to "800% of home deliveries result in death, yo!" (I'm misquoting both, I'm giving exaggerated examples ;) ) I'm nearly convinced that this baby is fated for death. I've had medically necessary c-sections and must have a third. I won't be posting afterward because I'll be dead, most likely. ;)

Aww littlemommy, don't fret! A good attitude is the best medicine :dance:

You're going to do great!