Scary nutrition plan for teenagers over at Erika's blog?

[already hungover]

I'm with LadyBlue, totally jealous of you all who grew in your late teens and into college. No fair. I quit by like 13 and haven't grown since. And I'm fucking short and hate it. I barely hit 4'11". Stupid short genes.

My younger sister is 4'11". I managed to reach 5'7", which is taller than both my parents. They're both adopted so I think there must be some slightly above average height genes somewhere in there and I lucked out. My mom is 5'2" and my dad is 5'5" or so but likes to tell people he's 5'11". Not fooling anyone, though.

I don't think I've grown much since my late teens, but I'm 25 and I swear my feet have gotten bigger recently. I'd been a size 8 since grade 5 but I needed new running shoes today and needed a bigger size. Back when I was 11, I thought my large feet meant I'd grow to be tall, but no such luck.

In elementary school, they used to weigh us all in front of each other for some reason that's beyond my understanding. There was some girl in my 5th grade class who was 5'11" and some of the mean girls made her cry because she weighed 120 pounds, which was more than any of the rest of us. Ridiculous and I will probably never forget the look on her face.

[TurtleBelly]

Never mind that there is more to 'growing' than an increase in height. There is no way this 15yo has finished growing, even if she has gotten as talk as she's going to. If all nothing else, doesn't her mother care about her health of all the foetuses her daughter will be expected to carry?

I was just going to say, don't eating disorders that drastically restrict calorie intake potentially lead to decreased fertility? Isn't it much more difficult to become pregnant unless you have above a certain body fat percentage? Can't extreme disorders like anorexia lead to permanent damage to the reproductive system? Perhaps Erika is messing with God's ultimate plan for her family size, or even worse, indirectly contributing to her daughter's smaller family size by giving her body image issues.

[Mama Mia]

Just wondering at all the other more petite ladies who wish they were taller --- why ???

Never saw an advantage for being tall, and since I'm old, I never had to "worry" about being taller than a guy I wanted to date - even in heels. ( I know that doesn't matter - but back in jr. high and high school it seemed important )

[Rachel333]

I was just going to say, don't eating disorders that drastically restrict calorie intake potentially lead to decreased fertility? Isn't it much more difficult to become pregnant unless you have above a certain body fat percentage? Can't extreme disorders like anorexia lead to permanent damage to the reproductive system? Perhaps Erika is messing with God's ultimate plan for her family size, or even worse, indirectly contributing to her daughter's smaller family size by giving her body image issues.

This is definitely true, but (and this really isn't related to this girl's situation--just, I thought, a mildly interesting fact), anorexics have some of the highest rates of unplanned pregnancies. A lot of people don't realize that you can get pregnant even if you don't menstruate.

[LadyBlue]

Just wondering at all the other more petite ladies who wish they were taller --- why ???

Never saw an advantage for being tall, and since I'm old, I never had to "worry" about being taller than a guy I wanted to date - even in heels. ( I know that doesn't matter - but back in jr. high and high school it seemed important )

Well, I can't reach most of my cupboards and never have been able to. I have trouble safely reaching the burner dials if a burner is on. My 11 year old is already taller than me. My pants are all too long. Even if I were taller, my husband would still need to shrink (he's 6'8"). I hate having my ribs in my pelvis when I sit. I'm terrified of driving because a)I have to sit so close to the wheel, the air bag would probably cause severe injury in an accident b) even at the lowest height on the adjustable seat belts, they cut across my neck in an unsafe way and c) I have a lot harder time shoulder checking and bigger blind spots because car are designed for much taller people. Need I go on? It's not like I want to be 6', I'd just like to be 4-6 inches taller (& the longer arms to go with it).

[noni alabaster]

AH right. I assumed that. Fry/saute to me is the same thing. Deep fry would be a large amount of oil/fat. I mean I don't say sauteed egg. I say fried egg.

I live in deep fried mars bar country. So there is a distinction :lol:

A fried egg, to me,is an egg, in a pan, with a teaspoon of butter. Provided you have the right-size pan. *grins* *chuckles*. I guess even I don't get the the joke. Crap, I'm out of herb and cannot function today. Big shop wore me the fuck out. I walk that shit. Blergh.

.

[OkToBeTakei]

She let through a sensible reply. Now granted this woman is writing from her own experience and projecting it on to *creepy* Erica I surmise she let it through as she probably thinks 'Oh look at this silly women airing her emotional issues.' 'I'll let it through because it quite obviously has nothing to do with my Karen and will make me look even- handed.'

Whilst in reality it really sounds to me that the commenter could be Karen in a few years :(

Actually no, she's *not* fully grown, not even close. A young woman will continue to put on bone mass and her brain will continue to develop well into her 20's. Any decent doctor would know that. A chiropractor/naturopath is *not* an expert in teen nutrition and health, they don't even study pediatrics.

What's more concerning is that if she is hungry during the say or feeling at all deprived she's not going to tell you. She's completely dependent on you and has no ability to become independent so she's not going to say anything to risk your condemnation. My sister and I grew up with a mother who kept us on very strict diets and kept us completely enmeshed for years. I wasn't until our grandparents insisted we go off to boarding school that we were finally able to get the medical treatments we needed to start getting healthy, a process that lasted until our 30's. Even to this day she insists she did the right thing and harasses us over our diets, among other things, even though we're both reasonably healthy women in our forties now. This is why neither of us will allow our children to visit her, for one thing we don't want them exposed to her issues around food.

I'm not saying this diet is bad, I'm on something similar myself now as is my sister. But teenagers are not adults and shouldn't be on an adult diet. You really need to make certain your daughters are getting what they need or else it could ruin their health for years and your relationship with them and your grandchildren forever.

- Rebecca F.

Bravo Rebecca.

[pirouette]

All of this is awful. I completely agree. I have a couple of friends recovered/recovering from disordered eating, and knowing even the smallest bit of what they've gone through makes me so incredibly angry that anyone would push this on their child. This is not even a "healthy eating" diet. This is an explicitly-stated crash weight-loss diet. Forcing anyone to be on that is definitely a potential gateway for a horribly distorted relationship with food.

And Karen's not even following the diet. The diet says to have a "protein choice" four times per day. Karen "doesn't like chopped egg," so she doesn't get a "protein choice" at lunch. Granted, she's getting a fried egg at breakfast that her mom's not getting, but somehow just knowing that she doesn't get a substitute protein choice makes me all the more enraged.

Also, this might just be a personal problem, but I couldn't help but notice that all of them (dieters and non-dieters) eat the exact same thing every day for breakfast AND lunch. I have a fairly small rotation of things I eat for those two meals, but this lifestyle sounds like hellish monotony to me.

[lawlifelgbt]

That poor girl! Erika's really setting her up for a lot of problems. I mean, people can go on extreme diets even if they're never forced or explicitly told they're fat (which was my case- my mom would force me to exercise and glare at me if I took seconds, but never outright did anything), but putting someone that young on a diet is really damaging.

The whole damaging the ability to carry kids sounds about right. I started off overweight, but because of the pressures I was getting living at home before grad school and wanting to look professional, I went from a size 16 to a loose size four in about 6 1/2 months. Then I couldn't get out of the dieting mindset and was so scared of getting fat again that during fall semester, I lost even more weight.

Needless to say, my partner (I'm a lesbian) or a surrogate will have to carry any future children because of this. If your fertility or organs aren't damaged, there's still a real possibility of not being able to deal with pregnancy weight gain and suffering a lot psychologically because you're losing your figure and by extension, your self-worth, and/or not eating/gaining enough during pregnancy and harming the child. So even if you can conceive, the pregnancy would be riskier and harder for the mother.

And from my personal experience, eating issues are really hard to deal with. Their impact gets into every area of your life. Who in their right mind would put that on a kid, especially not an overweight one? Oh, wait...fundies are NEVER in their right mind!

[uber frau]

Well, I can't reach most of my cupboards and never have been able to. I have trouble safely reaching the burner dials if a burner is on. My 11 year old is already taller than me. My pants are all too long. Even if I were taller, my husband would still need to shrink (he's 6'8"). I hate having my ribs in my pelvis when I sit. I'm terrified of driving because a)I have to sit so close to the wheel, the air bag would probably cause severe injury in an accident b) even at the lowest height on the adjustable seat belts, they cut across my neck in an unsafe way and c) I have a lot harder time shoulder checking and bigger blind spots because car are designed for much taller people. Need I go on? It's not like I want to be 6', I'd just like to be 4-6 inches taller (& the longer arms to go with it).

I'm at the other end.of the spectrum-I'm over 6' and wear Euro 41/42 shoes. I'll donate some of my femoral & humeral tissue if you like. The human world seems to be designed around average and when you fall outside of that range there are all sorts of things that don't work properly. I was a nurse in a previous existence. Nursing is hard on your back, nursing when you're too tall for the equipment is murder. It doesn't matter how good your manual handling technique is, back injuries become practicality unavoidable. And don't to to me about trying to find clothes that fit. Even 'tall' pants are too short, it's impossible to find shirts or jackets with long enough sleeves and shoe shopping is my idea of hell. I'm ready to give up and start dressing like a fundy. At least flour sack dresses and keds look equally bad on everybody.

[miffy]

I don't understand why people eat such small amounts of food when they want to lose weight? If you count calories you can actually eat quite a bit & still eat junk on occasion whilst maintaining a negative caloric intake. MyFitnessPal is amazing because you can make sure you are not missing out on vital nutrients whilst restricting your diet.

Some other thoughts:

Protein is bad for you if you have too much.

Fat, salt & carbs are NOT bad for you unless you overdo it, your body actually needs all of these things.

Losing weight too quickly can cause stretch marks & loose skin.

Fruit is really good for you.

Building muscle will not only burn energy whilst you are working out, but your body will use more energy just to sit in front of the TV with a glass of wine and weight bearing exercise is something all women should do for bone strength.

[miffy]

I'm at the other end.of the spectrum-I'm over 6' and wear Euro 41/42 shoes. I'll donate some of my femoral & humeral tissue if you like. The human world seems to be designed around average and when you fall outside of that range there are all sorts of things that don't work properly. I was a nurse in a previous existence. Nursing is hard on your back, nursing when you're too tall for the equipment is murder. It doesn't matter how good your manual handling technique is, back injuries become practicality unavoidable. And don't to to me about trying to find clothes that fit. Even 'tall' pants are too short, it's impossible to find shirts or jackets with long enough sleeves and shoe shopping is my idea of hell. I'm ready to give up and start dressing like a fundy. At least flour sack dresses and keds look equally bad on everybody.

I think a lot of 'Tall' pants are really designed for people who are a bit above average. I'm wearing extra long Target leggings right now & they fit me perfectly. But i'm not 'Tall' i'm 5'8.

[uber frau]

I need at least an 85cm inside length. Most 'tall' pants are about 80. Tights are worse, I don't think they've changes their sizing since the 40s.I don't know what I'm going to do when footless tights go out of fashion. Shop at adult shop and get a sexy garter belt or something probably. :D

[miffy]

I need at least an 85cm inside length. Most 'tall' pants are about 80. Tights are worse, I don't think they've changes their sizing since the 40s.I don't know what I'm going to do when footless tights go out of fashion. Shop at adult shop and get a sexy garter belt or something probably. :D

Oh tights annoy me too. I can get the black ones to fit. But anything cute or patterned I have to pay stupid Myer prices. I learned my lesson buying a 'one size' pair from Forever New. The crotch was about 2/3 of the way up my thighs.

[uber frau]

I was just going to say, don't eating disorders that drastically restrict calorie intake potentially lead to decreased fertility? Isn't it much more difficult to become pregnant unless you have above a certain body fat percentage? Can't extreme disorders like anorexia lead to permanent damage to the reproductive system? Perhaps Erika is messing with God's ultimate plan for her family size, or even worse, indirectly contributing to her daughter's smaller family size by giving her body image issues.

It's not just the getting pregnant that's a problem for malnourished women. It's also the staying pregnant and birthing healthy children. One of the biggest risk factors for maternal and infant mortality in the ante and neonatal period is malnutrition. It's pretty much next after inadequate hygeine

[moonbeam59]

Add me to the list of women who stopped growing in middle school. Bah.

This thread haunts me. I'm just so disturbed that she's teaching her healthy 15-year-old that it's more important to be skinny than to eat healthy, nutrient-packed foods like fruit. I have a history of disordered eating and when I'm struggling, one of the first food groups cut from my diet is fruit. When I'm in a healthy place, I care more about giving my body good nutrition than cutting out every possible source of sugar calories. This poor girl.

[OkToBeTakei]

Well Part 2 is up. Flip flop flippity flop.

Well she yo-yoed as predicted by commenters here. Now she is extolling some 'Above Rubies' plan.

Bob and Karen have been so much happier on this THM way of eating, and they have continued losing weight since I switched them over from the old diet. They were not on the old diet as long as I was and apparently they did not then need time to adjust their bodies.

WAIT a minute. Did she not say her daughter felt SO much healthier on the other diet :?

On being asked by a concerned commenter on the sporting activity of said daughter and the fact she 'put' her on a diet.

Our daughter's weight is right in check and she's very healthy. She only had about 15 to lose, and carried it all-over and especially in her legs so it was not as obvious to other people. No clothing is no hindrance. We would help her participate in any activity she desired to (within budget and time); there's always a way, even being modest.

No words.

[KBepote]

And it's all a lie anyway. They are completely against all organized sports, even if they could afford them and had the time to take Karen to them. Erika idolizes the Maxwells and wrote extensively about the horrors of sports and other group activities.

I wanted to scream when she admitted that Karen was happier on the new diet (of course, happier does not mean happy). Poor little girl at the mercy of her control-freak mother being forced to lose that 15 pounds that she probably needed to be healthy. Not everyone is meant to be a size 2.

[19 cats and counting]

I"m chiming in really late, but I was a teenager in the 90s when everything that had fat in it was evil. My parents bought into that hook line and sinker. I was a late bloomer (no puberty until high school and didn't grow until after that) and clearly not done growing when this low fat 'food' was forced on me (the only thing in the house).

Everything I ate had to be the diet version. I couldn't have a sandwich without low fat cold cuts, light mayo, fat free cheese on diet bread. (The diet bread had a taste that resembled cardboard). There were pictures of skinny models in bikinis on the fridge (so we would see the pic and not open the fridge). I constantly hid food in my locker at school (lucky my parents aren't fundie and I wasn't homeschooled) and of course the food I hid was things like pop tarts, chips, etc. Even my (healthy) veggie options were limited (always a salad and I've never really liked salad) and cucumbers (which make me gag) were served at every meal. And instead of being horrified at stories in teen magazines about things like anorexia, I read those articles as a how-to guide.

From the (few as I stopped posing for them after always being told I was fat and ugly in every picture of me) pictures I have from that era, I was an average kid. I wasn't a size 2 (as my mom was at that age which is why I was told I was fat) but I wasn't overweight.

To this day (I'm in my mid 30s) I have food issues. I even have a few Kit Kat bars in my bedstand and hide them (as if my mom is still the food police) and I still very rarely pose for pictures because I still hear my mom's voice telling me how fat I am in them (I've never taken a selfie, ever.)

Erika Shupe is my least favorite fundie ever. I can usually find redeeming qualities in even the worst person (and I see them in many fundies) , but in her I can't find any. She has all the worst qualities of my mom but on steroids. To say that she has ice running through her veins is an insult to ice. She has no business having kids and with her personality type would have been better suited to the military as a boot camp instructor or drill sergeant where it's a culture that thrives on control of minor things.

And if Karen grows up with half the food issues that I did, I fear for that poor girl (and also in many other ways). I'd offer a place to stay should she flee. I hope she bolts on her 18th birthday.

[Mama Mia]

19 Cats, I'm so sorry your mother put you through that! How absolutely ridiculous, mean and pointless.

Our older daughters were teens in the nineties and at least in their circle the weight pressure wasn't evident yet. But their sisters, younger by just a few years, were all naturally thin, VERY thin girls -- and they still complained and worried about being " fat" . Except for complaints about not having enough of a butt, they would pinch the littlest bit of fat anywhere and worry. It was awful the pressure they felt that didn't even exist in the same general group five years prior.

I was always fairly thin until my mid thirties, then put on a fairly substantial amount of weight when I no longer had to chase small children around. I would find myself avoiding photos and complaining about my looks. One of my girls pointed out how unhealthy an example that was. I tried, not always successfully, to not talk negatively about my appearance so I wouldn't give that bad impression. But it's so hard.

[lawlifelgbt]

Ugh, add me to the commiserating club! When I was 12-14 or so, my mom started forcing me to go to the gym. She played tennis there, so we would be there for at least an hour and a half each time. She would come up between sets to make sure I wasn't sitting around, and would take away all use of electronics (not that I was allowed to use them much anyway, but in the age of IM and email, with no cell phone, this meant not talking to friends at all), for weeks if I even refused once.

It took a long time to get into the habit of working out regularly, and let's face it- that will never be fun for me. I do it because it's beneficial and reduces my anxieties about food, but it still remains a chore.

[19 cats and counting]

Thanks Mama Mia. The reason I pointed it out because I am worried for Erika's kids and my family is far from fundie (not even churchgoers).

I shudder to think what will become of Karen at my age.