We Just Don't Understand Submissive Wives

[LucySnowe]

Easy! Leave the dishes in the sink for him. They are now his exclusive domain. I stopped putting away the clothes my husband throws on the floor. I do pick them up, however. I pick them up daily and dump them on his bed pillow. When the mountain gets too big, he does something about it.

Submission, bah!

Dishes are Mr. Snowe's domain as well, mainly because it becomes fairly obvious when dishes need to be done (i.e. no more clean dishes, and you can't see the counter for the stacks of dirty dishes). I have given up on the clothes-on-the-floor thing, except that I will insist he remove the pile in the bathroom before we have company over. Occasionally I insist that I won't wash anything unless it's in the laundry basket, but I really need to just let that go because I am never going to win.

Yeah, we don't do submission at Chez Snowe. :lol:

[salex]

] People who think it is controversial for a wife to be submissive to her husband

A: does not understand the biblical principle of marriage ](

as my father, a sunday school teacher for decades and a wise man told me when a relative of my husband's told someone that while men could remarry after divorce if the woman had committed adultery, women couldn't remarry, even if they divorced for adultery "you have to remember some of these social laws were developed by nomadic desert tribes thousands of years ago... and that has little to do with today." I'll take my family's and my understanding of biblical marriage over this woman's any day. I'll stick with Galations 3:28, where Paul wrote "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." If we are one, we are equal. If this contradicts other verses, then I guess she will have to explain to me how the Bible can be inerrant and also have contradictions.

B: is not going to do well in marriage,

I've been married 34 years (in 2 weeks) and my father, who is in an egalitarian marriage with my mother has been married for 57 years. My grandparents (both sides were in egalitarian marriages) and they had lifelong marriages that were known to be happy. In fact, I suspect part of their happiness is no one expected submission at home, which is why both grandfathers married women who had either college or business school before they married and one side, had worked for several years.

C: needs to think and do research before arguing this with me and

As if only she has thought about this or researched it. It is only the last few years that I've heard so much literalism about the Bible. They are making an idol of it (to use their phrase) just as they are modesty, etc.

When I went to church as a kid, we were constantly told that the new testament was filled with messages for particular people of that particular time, and 'IF" you were having the same kind of strife as the church in question back then, you might consider the advice they were given.

D: (a repeat because it is just so very true for men and women both) they ARE NOT GOING TO DO WELL IN MARRIAGE!

[2xx1xy1JD]

Not because husband is boss and wife is a wimp (or doormat) ... but because they sacrifice for one another, the love unconditionally and they commit FULLY to one another and to their marriage.

She's part of the category of fundies who say that they are submissive, but when they describe how marriages are supposed to be, describe something that looks like an egalitarian marriage with mutual respect.

Obviously, I think this is a more benign view than Lori's. OTOH, it sort of glosses over the fact that there are those who define submissiveness as meaning that you submit, period, even if your husband is a cheater or abusive asshole. Worse, it ignores the fact that plenty of egalitarian marriages are ALSO filled with mutual love, commitment and respect.

It's pretty easy to disprove the whole "do this or your marriage will suck thing". I've been with my husband since 1988, and we are going strong. Same thing with the "spank your kids or they will be godless criminals" line - my kids haven't been spanked but their teachers love them.

[formergothardite]

So has anyone attempted to debate her on this subject? She acts like no one will be able to do it, but I wonder if she just doesn't allow comments that don't agree with her.

[moodygirl86]

needs to think and do research before arguing this with me

This is just arrogant.

[moodygirl86]

Oh damn! Sorry Debrand, I just realised I quoted you by mistake and it looked like I was calling you arrogant. Of course, I meant the woman you were discussing.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I can't even tell you how many fights I've had with my "headship" over the dishwasher. Some have seriously ended in tears and slammed doors. I'm like you, he's like your husband. It's extra fun when his mother is visiting. Ever had two Germans lecturing you on loading a dishwasher? Oy.

I've given up on the dishwasher. My husband is a wonderful, helpful man with many talents....but he is incapable of figuring out how to load a dishwasher. His method seems to involve throwing in dishes at random, in the dark with eyes closed, with all the uneaten food still on them. And putting in sharp knives with the blades sticking up.

Egalitarian doesn't mean that EACH task must be split equally. He can be the hockey and soccer dad, and I'll do the dishes my way.

[August]

The latter is not submission of a wife to her husband, it's called mutual respect and love. It has zero to do with the wife submitting to her husband. I think Maxine does not quite understand what submission is by definition. Mutual sacrifice, love and commitment to each other is not called submission, but caring for one other deeply. Not ruling over the other, not believing he must make all the decisions because he is smarter and more logical than she is cause women are stupid, emotional weaklings who can't be trusted to make the right decision. That, to me, is a recipe for a disastrous marriage.

No, by commit fully she means stay, no matter what. Even if he tries to kill you on a regular basis, stay. If he has sex with your children, stay.

[Blahblah]

Seems like dishwashers are a very common problem. My hubby had an issue with my cram it in anywhere approach (which, I might add, works perfectly well when he is away on business and I do everything around the house. I can even manage to sort the recycling and put the bin out on the right day, imagine that.).

So now the kids and I dump everything in the sink and he can pack the dishwasher by his nitpicky self at his leisure.

[JesusFightClub]

I've given up on the dishwasher. My husband is a wonderful, helpful man with many talents....but he is incapable of figuring out how to load a dishwasher. His method seems to involve throwing in dishes at random, in the dark with eyes closed, with all the uneaten food still on them. And putting in sharp knives with the blades sticking up.

Egalitarian doesn't mean that EACH task must be split equally. He can be the hockey and soccer dad, and I'll do the dishes my way.

OH NO! The poky knife (with blade sticking upwards), I hate that! :o

I don't have a dishwasher but I can't even leave knives out to dry, I have to dry them on the spot and put them away. If they are out I get all twitchy, let alone with blades pointing upwards.

And also yes to the random dish-throwing. My dad does that (he has a dishwasher) and never scrapes the dishes off first...

[2xx1xy1JD]

I've given up on the dishwasher. My husband is a wonderful, helpful man with many talents....but he is incapable of figuring out how to load a dishwasher. His method seems to involve throwing in dishes at random, in the dark with eyes closed, with all the uneaten food still on them. And putting in sharp knives with the blades sticking up.

Egalitarian doesn't mean that EACH task must be split equally. He can be the hockey and soccer dad, and I'll do the dishes my way.

Complaining apparently attracted some sort of dish-related Evil Eye on Friday night.

We had guests over for dinner. Hubby "helped" by clearing the table and starting on the dishes. Sure enough, along with the sounds of unscraped dishes being thrown randomly into the dishwasher, I also heard the crash of the lid to the sugar bowl hitting the floor and breaking. From the out-of-production china that I got from my late grandmother.

After I came in and swept up the pieces, I noticed some pots had been washed and put away. Still wet. With some bits of food still on them.

He asked if I appreciated all his help.

Crickets.

Then he noticed that I was unloading many of the dishes, rinsing them and reloading them in a way that they would actually get clean, and not break.

[moodygirl86]

Complaining apparently attracted some sort of dish-related Evil Eye on Friday night.

We had guests over for dinner. Hubby "helped" by clearing the table and starting on the dishes. Sure enough, along with the sounds of unscraped dishes being thrown randomly into the dishwasher, I also heard the crash of the lid to the sugar bowl hitting the floor and breaking. From the out-of-production china that I got from my late grandmother.

After I came in and swept up the pieces, I noticed some pots had been washed and put away. Still wet. With some bits of food still on them.

He asked if I appreciated all his help.

Crickets.

Then he noticed that I was unloading many of the dishes, rinsing them and reloading them in a way that they would actually get clean, and not break.

Blimey 2xx1xy1JD, did my mum have a fourth son?! That sounds like a typical scene from my house growing up when doing washing/drying. Eldest brother J would take a flannel and just squeeze it onto any dirty plates. Youngest M would throw a towel on top of the washed stuff in the style of an over-enthusiastic fireman snuffing out flames. And at one stage, Mum would go through a phase of going mad if we just put stuff straight back in the cupboards after drying them - she didn't want people banging their heads on open cupboard doors so we had to put them on the table first. The result being, that they would end up being put back in the sink by mistake, extending washing up/drying up time at least tenfold, and then she moaned at us for taking ages. Eventually, people learned just not to walk too close to open cupboard doors/look where they were going. Fun times.

[loulou]

What I've found interesting is that many of these women who claim to be "submissive" and have wonderful marriages, when they describe their marriage it's actually very 50/50. Something like "Well, hubby makes the final decision, but before any decisions are made we sit down together and discuss things and decide together what to do." That sounds a lot like my marriage (married 18 years) and I certainly wouldn't say I was submissive. My husband would never make a major - or even minor - decision without talking with me about, and vice versa.

I am NOT talking about the "if he hits you and abuses you just pray harder." That's just batshit crazy.

[debrand]

Oh damn! Sorry Debrand, I just realised I quoted you by mistake and it looked like I was calling you arrogant. Of course, I meant the woman you were discussing.

Don't worry about it. I knew what you meant. :)