My Big Fat American Gypsy Wedding

[tropaka]

I missed the American one, but am assuming the outfits were just as cheesy as the Brit one? The dresses are costume pieces rather than dresses - the amount of fabric and time spent glue gunning and wiring would eat up the cash, I imagine.

[constantgardener]

You're right. I'm comparing them to what I see every day in my own little town, and that is unfair. I'm sorry for those remarks.

Thing is, I'm sure a lot of people do judge them on their...let's say... less than classy appearance, and I do find it really quite puzzling that they have adopted this style of dressing, yet retain a very rigid patriarchal society. I am the first person to stand up for gypsies as an ethnic group because they come up against a huge amount of prejudice here but I don't think they do themselves any favours in these shows. Do gypsies encounter a lot of prejudice in the US?

[reds]

The one gown last night had 14,000 swarovski crystals. If you think they are at least a $1 a pop...

[deelaem]

Did anyone watch "My Big American Fat Gypsy Wedding"?

I wouldn't watch anything as absurd sounding as this if I had a gun to my head. I'm so glad I gave up cable TV. There seems to be limit to the depths it will sink to in order to play to the lowest common denominator.

[bekkah]

I mainly just watched it because I was having a bad night. I needed something so absurd to take me away from the reality I was experiencing.

I think it is really sad that these girls have to live up to these standards while men don't have to. In the British show, I feel for the girls a lot. One of them though hold out till she was 21 and worked for a while.

Shows like this make me think of the Jersey Shore, Duggars, and Toddlers and Tiaras mixed into one big ol' mixing bowl. All I keep saying to myself only in America.

[pixydust]

Thing is, I'm sure a lot of people do judge them on their...let's say... less than classy appearance, and I do find it really quite puzzling that they have adopted this style of dressing, yet retain a very rigid patriarchal society. I am the first person to stand up for gypsies as an ethnic group because they come up against a huge amount of prejudice here but I don't think they do themselves any favours in these shows. Do gypsies encounter a lot of prejudice in the US?

Yes, if people know what they are, they have a reputation of being cons and thieves. I don't think that most Americans could point out a Traveler.....most people would just think that they are trashy.

[RR88]

My mom's a seamstress/textile artist, and I've watched her sew all kinds of things. The creations of the seamstresses on these "gypsy wedding shows" seem to be glued, not sewed, together. I'll bet the bodices (invariably corsets) can be purchased prefab by the dressmaker.

[tropaka]

Yeah, the bodices look like they're definitely premade, and all of the crystals etc are hot gunned onto the material - well, if you get engaged and want to be married withing a month or two, there's no other way...

Did they mention what relationship the Romany or Travellers have with their European forebears, or just go to the trashy bits?

ETA Do the American groups hold the same beliefs other than "women as mothers/caregivers only"? Are they still against indoor plumbing, into cleaning the trailers constantly?

[crassy]

Yes, DNA studies have proven the Romani, Roma, and Romanichal gypsies share similar DNA and their origins are from the Inida and the Middle East. I could provide links, but there are too many to post. Irish Travellers, though in general are of Northern European descent, and probably do not share the same ancestors as as Roma gypsies unless the two groups have intermarried (and from watching the show we know they have). Again, too many links to post, but the research is there.

I got interested in this because my father's ancestors came from towns not far from Rathkeale. But, if I do have Traveller ancestors, I can say that at least this branch of that culture absolutely do not have any Traveller ways at all. In fact Daddy when I asked Daddy what he though an Irish Traveller was, he said an Irish person who likes to travel. When I explained to him what they really were he had some not so nice nice things to say, which I won't repeat.

Not all travellers are Rroma or have Rroma ancestry. There is a difference between the two groups (though there is also cross-over). Travellers were thought to have come about during the famine, but it is unsure if this is exactly the case. It would make sense, though, given that a lot of Irish people were forced off of their ancestral lands and made to travel around to find work. There are different terms for different groups. Pavee for the travellers, but they are also called didicoy (this group is not Rroma at all but they recognise the similar lifestyle. They are Irish by ethnicity). There was a paper done on this a few years ago by Ann Hum (exact reference Ann Hum, Biol 2000 Sep-Oct;27(5):453-65 ].

[crassy]

Yeah, the bodices look like they're definitely premade, and all of the crystals etc are hot gunned onto the material - well, if you get engaged and want to be married withing a month or two, there's no other way...

Did they mention what relationship the Romany or Travellers have with their European forebears, or just go to the trashy bits?

ETA Do the American groups hold the same beliefs other than "women as mothers/caregivers only"? Are they still against indoor plumbing, into cleaning the trailers constantly?

Yes, they do. They are the same group of people with the same traditions/lifestyle/beliefs. The only difference is that some of them moved to the US to find work because there is less of a stigma attached to them than there is in the UK/Ireland. If you watch the British show they mention a lot of them living and working in the US/Europe/Australia. They always go home, though, when they can.

[Conuly]

Do gypsies encounter a lot of prejudice in the US?

There are a number of people who don't even think they exist. No joke, I've seen online at least one comment by a fellow American who thought they were made up, you know, "like fairies".

[angelsonyourbody]

There are a number of people who don't even think they exist. No joke, I've seen online at least one comment by a fellow American who thought they were made up, you know, "like fairies".

I think they are quite a bit more secretive in the US than in the UK as well from what I have seen/researched. I did a research project on Irish Travellers recently for my International Human Rights class, and no one in the class had ever heard of them.

[geniebelle6901]

TLC usually re-plays the previous episode just before the new episode in addition to other days of the week leading up to the new episode. Check TLC's website for the schedule..

[geniebelle6901]

Not all travellers are Rroma or have Rroma ancestry. There is a difference between the two groups (though there is also cross-over). Travellers were thought to have come about during the famine, but it is unsure if this is exactly the case. It would make sense, though, given that a lot of Irish people were forced off of their ancestral lands and made to travel around to find work. There are different terms for different groups. Pavee for the travellers, but they are also called didicoy (this group is not Rroma at all but they recognise the similar lifestyle. They are Irish by ethnicity). There was a paper done on this a few years ago by Ann Hum (exact reference Ann Hum, Biol 2000 Sep-Oct;27(5):453-65 ].

That's what I was trying to say, plus on the show there was an Irish Traveller who married a Romany Gypsy. I'm sure the two groups have intermarried before that given there somewhat similar nomadic lifestyles.

[geniebelle6901]

The one think that made my blood boil is "grabbing". That's assault, and borderline sexual assault, and the bastards should be arrested for it. But I distinctly remember the dressmaker, Thelma say that it's just part of the culture and the women expect the men to dominate them! :angry-screaming:

There is a a rumor that in an upcoming episode of the British version the girl Cheyenne? who was grabbed at the wedding in the very first episode of the first season (Josie & Swanley's wedding) marries her grabber! WTH! I'd kick the SOB in the nuts!

[geniebelle6901]

Not to make a racial slur or anything but what is is with gypsies and travellers not using restrooms but preferring to use an outhouse, port-a-pottie, or just finding a nearby bush? I understand some of it has to do with cleanliness and not wanting a toilet near a kitchen where food is prepared. But don't they understand that modern plumbing, disinfectant, soap & water have eliminated the risk of contamination? Plus don't the know that urinating or defecating in public creates a public health hazard? Or is there some other issue? Can some one explain this to me? Right about now I find the whole concept to be nasty to say the least.

[angelsonyourbody]

Not to make a racial slur or anything but what is is with gypsies and travellers not using restrooms but preferring to use an outhouse, port-a-pottie, or just finding a nearby bush? I understand some of it has to do with cleanliness and not wanting a toilet near a kitchen where food is prepared. But don't they understand that modern plumbing, disinfectant, soap & water have eliminated the risk of contamination? Plus don't the know that urinating or defecating in public creates a public health hazard? Or is there some other issue? Can some one explain this to me? Right about now I find the whole concept to be nasty to say the least.

i don't know the exact reason, but they adhere to some pretty extreme "laws" regarding cleanliness as far as even washing specific clothing items together (such as never washing underwear with anything but underwear)... i think it has something to do with that and is almost a religious practice

[marmalade]

The one think that made my blood boil is "grabbing". That's assault, and borderline sexual assault, and the bastards should be arrested for it. But I distinctly remember the dressmaker, Thelma say that it's just part of the culture and the women expect the men to dominate them! :angry-screaming:

There is a a rumor that in an upcoming episode of the British version the girl Cheyenne? who was grabbed at the wedding in the very first episode of the first season (Josie & Swanley's wedding) marries her grabber! WTH! I'd kick the SOB in the nuts!

From what they said on the American version, grabbing is not permitted. Girls go to the altar just like our fundies; maybe a little hand holding, but that's it, if anything. The groom-to-be on the show said he wanted his bride clean. They didn't say as much, but it's pretty clear a double-standard exists with the Jersey Shore wanna-be guys.

I also heard that the girl who was grabbed on the first episode they showed in America is going to marry the grabber. Yuck.

[tropaka]

Gypsies and Travellers who do actually travel carry with them a mixed bag - some do leave projects un done (like driveways and other paving jobs), others nothing. I think within these groups they carry the same percentage of idiots and scammers as any other group...it's just been so ingrained with gypsies.

[debrand]

i don't know the exact reason, but they adhere to some pretty extreme "laws" regarding cleanliness as far as even washing specific clothing items together (such as never washing underwear with anything but underwear)... i think it has something to do with that and is almost a religious practice

My SIL's husband had a friend who would not use indoor restrooms. It was very odd but he always went outside. I never asked him if he used his own bathroom. He was very sweet but strange. Maybe he had a connection to the Irish Travelers? He didn't have an Irish accent so maybe he was just an eccentric young man.

I wonder if there are any differences between the American Irish Travelers and the ones in Europe. It would be interesting to know why American Travelers don't allow grabbing.

Maybe the producers pick the more extreme Travelers for the show. If so, they wouldn't be an honest representation of the entire group.

[Conuly]

Gypsies and Travellers who do actually travel carry with them a mixed bag - some do leave projects un done (like driveways and other paving jobs), others nothing. I think within these groups they carry the same percentage of idiots and scammers as any other group...it's just been so ingrained with gypsies.

And if everybody they encounter just assumes you're like the scammers and thieves, why not just go that route anyway? It's not like you're likely to get a good opportunity playing fair, right?

[angelsonyourbody]

My SIL's husband had a friend who would not use indoor restrooms. It was very odd but he always went outside. I never asked him if he used his own bathroom. He was very sweet but strange. Maybe he had a connection to the Irish Travelers? He didn't have an Irish accent so maybe he was just an eccentric young man.

I wonder if there are any differences between the American Irish Travelers and the ones in Europe. It would be interesting to know why American Travelers don't allow grabbing.

Maybe the producers pick the more extreme Travelers for the show. If so, they wouldn't be an honest representation of the entire group.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/ ... life-women

apparently grabbing isn't all that common in the UK either. leave it to tlc to feature the crazies.

[geniebelle6901]

What thought was so funny was that Shyannes' prorosal was a ring pop with a "will you marry" me message attached. The dude either couldn't or wasn't allowed to make decent proposal in person? How tacky was that.

[ems]

It was on last night. Let's just say I was damn shocked.

Here are things I noticed that are similar to the Duggars:

-The girl is expected to remain pure until marriage. Men can do anything they damn want.

-The girl didn't have her first kiss until the altar.

-They only met 3 times and the wedding was quick(like a month after the engagement).

-Both were really young. (17/18)

-Take the girls out of school at a young age.

-Expect their girls to be wives and mothers, nothing else.

I just am sick of these shows. I honestly felt sad for that girl last night. Same lifestyle, just different dress.

I was gonna start a thread on this until I did a search.When I saw my first episode (not the American one, Irish travelers) on Saturday, I also thought of similarities to FJ families with the expectation that girls will become wives and mothers and the lack of education. The one I saw didn't discuss the first kiss or purity expectations at all, and the dress of the girls certainly was full of Nike! It seemed to me, though, that the girls may have dressed in ways that some consider "provocative" because there is such a focus on female beauty and because their options for the future are so limited. Like, they go all out in these celebrations b/c its their only chance for that attention...

Very interesting/strange culture...but since it's TLC, who knows how accurate it is? :? I do feel for anyone trapped in someone else's expectations for their lives, as these girls certainly are..

[Elle]

Where do they get the MONEY for this stuff?? I am at an absolute loss right now. I'm struggling to pinch pennies for my own wedding, which we budgeted to keep UNDER 10k... This dress is worth $15,000???? IT'S HIDEOUS.

That's a $25k-question. So many of them don't have high-paying jobs or even steady work, which I think contributes to the idea that they must be doing something illegal. Because it just doesn't make sense. Yet they seem to be very wealthy.