Let the Boycotts Begin - Josh Duggar and FRC

[Wandering]

I don't know if this has already been posted on this thread, too lazy to read five pages, but if you're interested in a Nutella replacement try Justin's Hazelnut Spread! It's available in most Targets and health food stores, tastes just like Nutella without the yuck endorsements!

[daisyfern]

Oh yes. Totally this.

The only way Josh could even get this job (assuming that he has been hired) is because of publicity from the show. That's it. He has NO other qualifications and to be honest, no way is publicity based on a reality show going to truly count as a "qualification" amongst the super educated types in DC.

I also don't believe for a moment that there weren't other ambitious, highly educated, young Republicans that applied the job. If so, then some of them are probably pissed at someone like SOTDRT uneducated Josh getting the job. This may set Josh up for being undermined. Also agree that DC conservatives are not the same type of conservatives that Josh is used to, but Josh is going to assume that they are. That should cause some interesting moments. Josh is probably going to walk into the office that first day with other people already snickering at him. From where I see it, he's probably walking into a snake pit.

I completely agree with both of these statements. There is no way that Josh is actually qualified for a high profile job in Washington. However, he is well-known in certain circles and can bring some publicity to the group.

[oil]

You are not a troll by any chance, are you. :think:

ok I will agree with every fucking thing here what ever it is the topic.

[itaintmebabe]

You can add me to the list of boycotters, but I don't buy Nutella anyway. I think I tried it a long time ago and it was too sweet. Never came back for more.

[oil]

Oil, would you think it was censorship if a openly racists family was unable to get a reality tv show because advertisers didn't want to support that sort of hate?

Yes by the definition of censorship.

Advertisers on the tv shows are motivate by money and can do what ever they decide for the product to selling in the commercials. I dont like it but I understand business. Even if its moral reasons they can do it because they will be paying money to that show and they have to have freedom who they give their money to.

What I said is censorship is when FJers say they want the TLC to remove the Duggars show off the tv because they are afraid it will having a influence of viewer to join ATI. I said I dont believe in censorship decisions like that. We sit in our couch watch the show on tv, decide its a bad influence to views so boycott products and hoping TLC take it off the tv. Thats what I dont agree with. But do what ever you want, it doesnt bother me. I AM NOT CRITICIZING THE BOYCOTTER FJer people, do you understand?? Only please let me have a different view.

Shit I think Im the only one on here who is not take every thing so serious like it a life depend on it. Its just exchange of opinion, or may be not? May be its a club of agree-ers?

So call me trolldar if you like, remember I believe in freedom, I will go enjoy my dinner now. (all this because of nutella :lol: )

[Many_Spaynes]

The problem is, Oil, lives do depend on it. Parents who go into Godardism hazard the health of their women & their children's chances at a good life. They also start voting for things that influence the rest of us: abortion laws, LGBTQ rights, education curricula, social programs.

If this was a bubbly, happy-seeming family of neo-Nazis, would it be "censorship" to want the show off the air or just good judgment?

And again, in any case, censorship can only be imposed from above. I don't know where you got your definition but it's incomplete.

[JenniferJuniper]

ok I will agree with every fucking thing here what ever it is the topic.

I don't think you are troll, but you did deliberately truncate your Wiki quote up thread defining censorship, and I think you must know that. You cut out the "by whom" part.

There are different types of censorship and I think it's important to understand the distinctions. I've seen no one here express an interest in any governing body shutting down 19 Kids because of their ATI connections. Thanks to the Constitution, it wouldn't happen anyway. ATI connections and beliefs are perfectly legal and their believers have a right to express them. I have seen posters say they'd like TLC to cease production of the show and are willing to pressure sponsors to drop TLC using boycotts. If enough sponsors pull their ads, TLC may then decide to pull the plug for financial reasons. This is a form of self-censorship and it happens quite frequently in the US.

If TLC really wanted to, they could ignore the loss of major sponsors, take the financial hit and keep producing and airing the show. But we know we won't do that. They don't care about the Duggars or their beliefs. They only care about their own profits.

I'm almost positive that Josh's primary reason for not publically announcing his new job with relates to his potential ongoing relationship with TLC. When Michelle's comment about Josh getting a job with the gay-hating, women-controlling FRC hit the media and TLC got wind of it they probably got very nervous. Not only could something like that threaten the individual show's profit margin, it could - and hopefully would - damage TLC's brand. "TLC Reality Show Star Joins Hate Group" is not a headline they were happy to see.

So everyone's lying low for now. Maybe the show is ending after the M3 Very Special Episode or Josh is leaving the show, which would free him up to do what he wants. Maybe Josh did accept the position and had to renege because he wants to stay on the show and TLC is worried about the connection. We don't know yet. But if Josh does go to work for FRC my own bet is that TLC will use a little self-censorship and at the very least drop Josh as a major player on the show, and at the most, end the show entirely.

And maybe that's the major reason for Jim Bob not wanting Josh to leave town?

[formergothardite]

oil you are free to have your opinion but l really don't understand what it is. It seems like you are saying that people here encouraging others to boycott advertisers of 19 kids and counting in hopes that it will be taken off the air is wrong because it is censorship. Here it isn't viewed as that it is how the free market works.

Maybe l do take it seriously because the damage ati has caused to my life and the lives of so many people. I've experienced the hurt brought onto my family when they got sucked into ati. And I'm one of the lucky ones whose family didn't go full ati. This show which you find amusing sucks in desperate families into a cult and hurts children. So yes l want this show off the air.

[formergothardite]

double post.

[Many_Spaynes]

I don't think you are troll, but you did deliberately truncate your Wiki quote up thread defining censorship, and I think you must know that. You cut out the "by whom" part.

My bad! Instead of saying Oil's definition of censorship was incomplete I should have said it was intellectually dishonest.

[Coconut Flan]

I can't decide if Oil is deliberately obtuse (as in troll) or it's a cultural and language difference. I'm leaning toward troll with the deliberately misstating other people's positions, truncating the definition to suit her own purpose, and the flouncy type comments. I'm putting her back on ignore.

[formergothardite]

Yes by the definition of censorship.

Advertisers on the tv shows are motivate by money and can do what ever they decide for the product to selling in the commercials. I dont like it but I understand business. Even if its moral reasons they can do it because they will be paying money to that show and they have to have freedom who they give their money to.

What I said is censorship is when FJers say they want the TLC to remove the Duggars show off the tv because they are afraid it will having a influence of viewer to join ATI. I said I dont believe in censorship decisions like that. We sit in our couch watch the show on tv, decide its a bad influence to views so boycott products and hoping TLC take it off the tv. Thats what I dont agree with. But do what ever you want, it doesnt bother me. I AM NOT CRITICIZING THE BOYCOTTER FJer people, do you understand?? Only please let me have a different view.

Shit I think Im the only one on here who is not take every thing so serious like it a life depend on it. Its just exchange of opinion, or may be not? May be its a club of agree-ers?

So call me trolldar if you like, remember I believe in freedom, I will go enjoy my dinner now. (all this because of nutella :lol: )

I actually don't watch the show. I don't need to do that to know that it is a bad influence on America and that it will bring harm to children. I lived it.

I am all for freedom too. Which means that they have the freedom to try and have a tv show and I have the freedom to encourage others to boycott the show and get it off the air. No one is trying to take away the freedom of the Duggars, despite the fact that the Duggars will use their show to influence others to remove freedoms from those they disagree with. They are free to travel around spreading their message. No one is going to try to use laws to force TLC to remove their show. And if TLC cancels it, well, they can shop around and find another station that would be willing to have their show. This is hardly censored when they have so many avenues to present their message.

[AVENues]

I can't decide if Oil is deliberately obtuse (as in troll) or it's a cultural and language difference. I'm leaning toward troll with the deliberately misstating other people's positions, truncating the definition to suit her own purpose, and the flouncy type comments. I'm putting her back on ignore.

Me neither, but I won't say anything that harsh anymore. (Even though the whole "I'm a capitalist" comment of his tickled me the wrong way, I'll refrain from such comments. )

FormerGothardite, thank you for your level-headedness.

[AVENues]

I don't think you are troll, but you did deliberately truncate your Wiki quote up thread defining censorship, and I think you must know that. You cut out the "by whom" part.

SNAP! I mean, snip. I did not even notice that. I'll add nothing more, and by all means, it's withing people's rights to censor wikipedia in the name of free speech... No comment... Thanks JenJun... (loved that song)

[formergothardite]

I think it is easy to forget, especially if you haven't been around ATI, that there are real lives being destroyed by Gothard. Real children being hurt. It isn't just a amusing show that doesn't hurt anyone.

[AVENues]

I have never been near ATI, all it took was like 2 thorough glances to see how F-O-S the Duggars and their ilk are. There's a nauseating feeling of pity, mild disgust, a hunch of something funny (adult daughters promising Dad to stay virgins), a hint of fright (spanking, mind control, etc) and repel in my esophagus every time I see them. I don't want to be the X hundredth newbie to ask about your story, I guess you have told it somewhere, I'm curious and I will find it on this forum somewhere. I always wondered how can people survive all that.

[formergothardite]

I have never been near ATI, all it took was like 2 thorough glances to see how F-O-S the Duggars and their ilk are. There's a nauseating feeling of pity, mild disgust, a hunch of something funny (adult daughters promising Dad to stay virgins), a hint of fright (spanking, mind control, etc) and repel in my esopthagus every time I see them. I don't want to be the X hundredth newbie to ask about your story, I guess you have told it somewhere, I'm curious and I will find it on this forum somewhere. I always wondered how can people survive all that.

I think I talked about it more on the Yuku board, but the short story is my parents were IFB who used a lot of the early ATI/IBLP materials in the home from the time I was very small. But my mom worked and we went to school. Then my one of my older siblings got into drugs/alcohol/sex as a teen, my parents freaked out, ATI was depicted as the answer to all of their problems. Gothard had the way to raise kids who will never even think about doing those things. The family we knew who were ATI members(they were not charter members but close to being charter members of ATI) only had a couple of kids and they seemed fairly non-crazy. So we joined and there went life as I knew it. Luckily my parents weren't rich so I was only sent to EXCEL, which was eight weeks of being cut off from my family and being brainwashed. Some of my younger siblings went to other things. I'm not sure if Journey to the Heart was around that point, so I don't think any of them went to that. Anyway, my parents also flipped flopped all the time on how much they followed ATI. They would throw away all CCM because it was evil, but six months later be over it and buy more. Same with movies. Sometimes movies were banned and then other times we could watch them. It was a very weird way to grow up. They a did give me a good education and expect me to go to college and get a job. They eventually, after I was an adult and no longer living at home, left ATI.

The "perfect" ATI family that got us to join, well it ends up there was some really fucked up stuff going on in that house and in the training centers they were sent to but it was all hidden because they had been trained to present a happy face no matter what. All the kids in that family ended up with really messed up lives.

[nelliebelle1197]

Me neither, but I won't say anything that harsh anymore. (Even though the whole "I'm a capitalist" comment of his tickled me the wrong way, I'll refrain from such comments. )

FormerGothardite, thank you for your level-headedness.

I think it is a deadly combination of troll with a language/culture issue who refuses to even try to understand what anyone is talking about or acknowledge the problems might come from a cultural misunderstanding on her part.

[Irishy]

I must confess..... Not only do I dislike Nutella, but I dislike all nuts. Peanut butter is like a jar full of cold vomit to me. I know, I'm weird.

[oil]

oil you are free to have your opinion but l really don't understand what it is. It seems like you are saying that people here encouraging others to boycott advertisers of 19 kids and counting in hopes that it will be taken off the air is wrong because it is censorship. Here it isn't viewed as that it is how the free market works.

Yes, this is exactly what I say, youre understanding my meaning clearly. We are seeing the thing from different experience. I realize you were hurt by ATI and I was not hurt by ATI, even though I think ATI is very bad. But I dont feel the hurt, so Im sorry. I only so strongly believe in freedom to choose and not have ideas hidden to the people. I think you say its ok to get rid of it because it hurt you and I understand that. Its just different experience and views between us, may be not one is right or wrong way only different? But we agree ATI is bad and sad for people.

Truncate (shorten) the definition of censorship, yes because it said government censorship. The FJ is not government. If legally the only one who can do censor is the government than I was wrong. If you say I did it to deceive you, youre full of shit because you think I dont know how educated on here the people are??

And the remark about capitalist, omg the lady who began the thread remarking often about shes a Trotskyism, and then she ask what social class we all are, so I thought she want to know about our social class belief. So I am a capitalist. Is that bad to say? What is the better word? Or censor myself and not say it?

When I was in school the teachers many times said "censor your self" if the student said some thing offensive. So I always believed censorship can be done by any one, even to your self.

Perfect self of being a FJer then I would boycott nutella and hope TLC take the fundy shows off the tv. Sorry Im not perfect.

I support your right to boycott. If troll means to like to start a problem in discussion, Im not a troll.

[yewchapel]

Oh Irishy! I live for nuts :lol: I am not a big fan of caramel though which is probably just as weird. Give me some whole nut hazelnut chocolate or some Toblerone over caramel chocolate any day. I like honeycomb, I think I just dislike the sugary gloop of caramel except for some caramel chocolates I found in Poundland (of all places) that was amazingly vanilla-y.

[oil]

And I forgot to say I never ate nutella. But it sounding like I miss some thing very delicious!

[Irishy]

Oh Irishy! I live for nuts :lol: I am not a big fan of caramel though which is probably just as weird. Give me some whole nut hazelnut chocolate or some Toblerone over caramel chocolate any day. I like honeycomb, I think I just dislike the sugary gloop of caramel except for some caramel chocolates I found in Poundland (of all places) that was amazingly vanilla-y.

I love caramel! Good caramel though, not cadburys crap. I cannot get enough of M&S caramel and Belgian chocolate covered popcorn. My DH and my kids live for nuts. They pass around the pistachios and the cashews and the spicy peanuts and I gag. I'm not allergic, just an oddball.

[formergothardite]

Yes, this is exactly what I say, youre understanding my meaning clearly. We are seeing the thing from different experience. I realize you were hurt by ATI and I was not hurt by ATI, even though I think ATI is very bad. But I dont feel the hurt, so Im sorry. I only so strongly believe in freedom to choose and not have ideas hidden to the people. I think you say its ok to get rid of it because it hurt you and I understand that. Its just different experience and views between us, may be not one is right or wrong way only different? But we agree ATI is bad and sad for people.

Truncate (shorten) the definition of censorship, yes because it said government censorship. The FJ is not government. If legally the only one who can do censor is the government than I was wrong. If you say I did it to deceive you, youre full of shit because you think I dont know how educated on here the people are??

And the remark about capitalist, omg the lady who began the thread remarking often about shes a Trotskyism, and then she ask what social class we all are, so I thought she want to know about our social class belief. So I am a capitalist. Is that bad to say? What is the better word? Or censor myself and not say it?

When I was in school the teachers many times said "censor your self" if the student said some thing offensive. So I always believed censorship can be done by any one, even to your self.

Perfect self of being a FJer then I would boycott nutella and hope TLC take the fundy shows off the tv. Sorry Im not perfect.

I support your right to boycott. If troll means to like to start a problem in discussion, Im not a troll.

I strongly believe in freedom too. Where have I said that I want to deny the Duggars freedom? They will be free as hell to spew their hate anywhere that will take them if TLC decides that they no longer want to support a family with their beliefs.

I don't want to get rid of it because it hurt me. I want it to go off because I don't think hate groups should be packaged as being loving. I view it as a form of propaganda. If they showed the truth of ATI and FRC and how much damage that lifestyle can cause, then I wouldn't have a problem with the show. But they lie and cover up all that.

And maybe this is just a language problem, but for me there is a difference between someone saying, "I don't care enough to boycott and I like watching the show." and saying "I think you are wrong to boycott and try to get the show off the air." I personally don't feel like people who watch the show and don't feel like boycotting are wrong, boycotting is not for everyone, but apparently you feel that the people who boycott are doing something wrong. I just don't get why you think it is wrong to not want to support one views as harmful.

[Trynn]

I hate caramel, cuz it always feels like glue in my mouth. Sometimes the European caramel candies my friend sends me are good, though, so maybe it's just a European vs American thing?