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Court Denies Asylum to Home-Schooling German Family


FloraDoraDolly

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Saw this on Twitter...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-denies-a ... d=19189260

The Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, however, ruled this week in favor of the Obama administration, which challenged the family's asylum on the grounds that Germany's ban on home-schooling did not constitute persecution and thus could not be used as a basis for political asylum in the United States.

"We are very disappointed in the decision by the Sixth Circuit to deny political asylum to the Romeike family who wants the freedom to home-school their children," said Michael Farris, the Romeike family's attorney and the chairman of the Home School Legal Defense Association, in a statement emailed to ABC News.

I think this was the right decision. There are so many people in the world who are REALLY being persecuted. This family can send their kids to a religious school in their own country. They don't have to teach them at home.

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All I can say is good. We do not need to be the homeschooling capital of the world.

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It may not be persecution, but it's a nice excuse for 15 minutes of martyrdom. Jackasses.

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Oh for the first time EVER I can't wait for Glenn Beck tomorrow.

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Or they could just move to Austria, where they would be allowed to homeschool...sigh.

You are right, over the past years alot of crazy german Eso-Freaks, Scientologists, Fundies of various cults moved over the border up here to homeschool their kids.

But although here in Austria, parents only have obligation to provide education instead of obligation to send children to a (NOT bullshit or sect-run, but instead certified) school in Germany, one MUST send the homeschooled child to a official examination of his/her abillities at the end of official school year, which have to match an official curriculum.

If the child fails the examinations, he/she MUST be sent to an public or at least certified school and has to repeat class (of the school year which was failed).

Lately (the past 10-5 years), child welfare will get involved too in the whole homeschooling-process automatically at some level, BECAUSE so many freaks thought they could have an easy pass to brainwash their kids here. And often, they did get. Austria is not very high up in the PISA tests, because we used to have a quite less-affairz school system with a quite big lack of controls.

Some big scandals (which also includes the Fritzl-case and the abuse-scandals at a prominent Catholic school at some point) regarding the whole school system,

stiffened it up, so it´s quite difficult to homeschool a child with even mild level bullshit curriculums anymore.

As far as I understand (please correct me here, if I´m wrong!), there is no examination of children by the state, when they are homeschooled, in the USA.

THe Romeikes are probably that level of freaks, who need a complete autonomy of homeschooling for their kids to feed them outrageous lies and are so not fit for any -or most - european homeschool laws at all.

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Anny Nym, homeschooling laws in the US vary by state. I'm not sure if there are any EU-wide laws on homeschooling - I don't think UK homeschooled kids have to take an exam of any kind but the local authority must be satisfied by the level of education that the kids are receiving.

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Anny Nym, homeschooling laws in the US vary by state. I'm not sure if there are any EU-wide laws on homeschooling - I don't think UK homeschooled kids have to take an exam of any kind but the local authority must be satisfied by the level of education that the kids are receiving.

I see, thank! Honestly, I already wondered about how this issue is handled in the USA, there seems to be a quite wide range of variety on homeschooling and "unschooling".

There is, as far as I know, no (not yet) an EU-wide law for all countries belonging to the European Union. According to wikipedia, UK has the highest level of homeschooled kids, then France. Denmark however hast the most liberal system regarding homeschooling.

I wonder what´s the actual point with the Romeikes, that they have to take such a far fetch as to "seek asylum" in the USA - it seems to be quite pathetic, asylum is for people with their life in danger in my understanding. Luckily, common sense over there stopped them quite quick with their :cray-cray: "we need asylum because we want to keep facts away from our children" drama show they tried to put on, as spiegel.de says (apparently, they are afraid of "vampires and witchcraft in german public schools" :evil-eye: )

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Vampires... and witchcraft..

Are we going to see a new trend of fundies sending their kids in with garlic necklaces? Could be a new market.

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Actually, now -> I want to go to a public german school, because doesn´t that sound like a quite epic crossover? I mean, imagine: Harry Potter AND Twilight! The german version! :cracking-up:

The Harry Potter thing because I want that to happen since I was 11 years old myself and the Twilight thing just for the epic funsies of having super-sparkly classmates with an hessian accent :mrgreen:

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Or they could just move to Austria, where they would be allowed to homeschool...sigh.

But, but, how dare you suggest they take advantage of their ability to legally move anywhere in the EU, including countries where they speak the language? Outrage! Persecution!

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Actually, now -> I want to go to a public german school, because doesn´t that sound like a quite epic crossover? I mean, imagine: Harry Potter AND Twilight! The german version! :cracking-up:

The Harry Potter thing because I want that to happen since I was 11 years old myself and the Twilight thing just for the epic funsies of having super-sparkly classmates with an hessian accent :mrgreen:

German schools are shite, apparently. I say that because I know someone who moved to Austria because the schools are better.

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German schools are shite, apparently. I say that because I know someone who moved to Austria because the schools are better.

Hm! Isn´t that a bit of an big step?

I´d like to know some more context to that if you don´t mind.

Are we talking public schools or private schools and west austria, east austria or vienna here?

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German schools are shite, apparently. I say that because I know someone who moved to Austria because the schools are better.

The German school system is far from perfect, but you can get a decent education without paying a fortune. I don't know the Austrian system though..

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There's a good analysis of the case in Libby Anne's blog, done by a guest poster who's a jurist (link not broken because I'm sure they're fine with it):

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfem ... older.html

Basically, they are not eligible for asylum because they aren't being denied a fundamental right (homeschooling isn't one).

Banning homeschooling entirely is perhaps a step too far, but I would lie if I said I'd be upset if it were banned completely in my own country for instance. I kind of agree with the underlying reason of not want to create parallel societies (of which fundies are clearly an example, for instance).

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I kind of agree with the underlying reason of not want to create parallel societies (of which fundies are clearly an example, for instance).

Yup, this - totally. It makes me glad home-schooling is basically illegal here.

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Hm! Isn´t that a bit of an big step?

I´d like to know some more context to that if you don´t mind.

Are we talking public schools or private schools and west austria, east austria or vienna here?

Public and east Austria, not Vienna. I've had several conversations with varied people, mostly Germans, a few foreigners. Racking my brains, and of course some were those "let's diss the schools" group bitch sessions at Sunday lunch, but I know the geographic spread includes several regions. We're affiliated with an employer where stints in other countries, one of which is Germany, are possible, so I always ask people about things like schools. The consensus has been that the half day thing is a blessing because you can teach them useful stuff yourself. I only know one person who lives in Austria, and no born and bred Austrians, but they did move largely for the schools. (I was being ironically self-deprecating with the "I know that because..." comment, it obviously didn't translate. My knowledge is somewhat more than that, but still hearsay.)

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German schools are shite, apparently. I say that because I know someone who moved to Austria because the schools are better.

And I know a fundie who's nice! All fundies are nice! ...Oh c'mon. What a shite logic and what a poor way to generalize. :|

The German school system is far from perfect, but you can get a decent education without paying a fortune. I don't know the Austrian system though..

1. which school system has ever been perfect?

2. I couldn't agree more.

Concerning that family...IMHO, not being allowed to teach your children at home is NOT persecution. If they are so worried about outside influences they should question whether their believes are strong enough.

They can teach their children at home, of course. In addition to the schooling of their choice. There are religious schools, public schools, private schools, Montessori, Waldorf...you name it. It's not like they are forced to send them to public school. Public school in Germany, however, provides are relatively proper education for next to nothing and encourages critical thinking. The horrorz.

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Did they think they wouldn't find "witchcraft and vampires" here in the US? I mean REALLY!

As others have said - I'm glad that their asylum claim was denied - there are people who REALLY need asylum, and granting it to anyone that feels persecuted by something as silly as this just takes away from the real need for it.

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Public and east Austria, not Vienna. I've had several conversations with varied people, mostly Germans, a few foreigners. Racking my brains, and of course some were those "let's diss the schools" group bitch sessions at Sunday lunch, but I know the geographic spread includes several regions. We're affiliated with an employer where stints in other countries, one of which is Germany, are possible, so I always ask people about things like schools. The consensus has been that the half day thing is a blessing because you can teach them useful stuff yourself. I only know one person who lives in Austria, and no born and bred Austrians, but they did move largely for the schools. (I was being ironically self-deprecating with the "I know that because..." comment, it obviously didn't translate. My knowledge is somewhat more than that, but still hearsay.)

Aw, okay :) I´m east austrian and went to public and private schools. I wrote in the "close encounter with fundie..." thread about a pretty crazy teacher we had in Middle School, that was public and semi-rural area.

My personal thoughts are, german and austrian schools are fairly the same level in rural or middle -class suburban or middle to semi upper-class/upperclass urban areas. We both have the half day of schools for elementary school, but "Nachmittagsbetreuung"/"afternoon-cary" for pupils is a big topic in both countries as far as I know. And Austrians as Germans genuinely envy Scandinavia (or France) for their real-life-friendly day care system :lol:

But as Germany has 80 million inhabitants and cities with a population over a million like Berlin, Hamburg or Munich, compared to 8 millions and just one over-a-million city (Vienna, which is a own county too) in Austria, there is naturally a bigger occurence of "Brennpunktschulen"/"problem schools" in poor urban areas mostly on ther german side <- I´m thinking of Berlin-Neukölln or Köln-Kalk here.

Also, the former east-german county of Saxony has a quite high level of unemployments and violence in general and in schools.

So all this factors may lead to some conclusions about german schools, but I frankly wouldn´t generalize that too much :)

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And I know a fundie who's nice! All fundies are nice! ...Oh c'mon. What a shite logic and what a poor way to generalize. :|

1. which school system has ever been perfect?

2. I couldn't agree more.

Concerning that family...IMHO, not being allowed to teach your children at home is NOT persecution. If they are so worried about outside influences they should question whether their believes are strong enough.

They can teach their children at home, of course. In addition to the schooling of their choice. There are religious schools, public schools, private schools, Montessori, Waldorf...you name it. It's not like they are forced to send them to public school. Public school in Germany, however, provides are relatively proper education for next to nothing and encourages critical thinking. The horrorz.

*nodding to the bolded*

The other thing that occurs to me is that if they just wanted to homeschool, there would be other (closer) places to move. After reading what Anny Nym has said about homeschooling in Austria, it seems more plausible to me that what they want is to homeschool without any sort of oversight at all.

And why would someone object so thoroughly to testing / oversight if they were confident that the education they could provide their children met or exceeded the education available in public, private, or parochial schools? That objection makes a lot more sense if (1) the parents don't have adequate knowledge or teaching skills or if (2) the parents are preventing their children from being exposed to subjects (e.g., geology) or methods (e.g., any mode of literary interpretation that results in multiple possible readings) that might eventually lead their children to ask questions about their worldview.

But then I'm a heathen who thinks that children of fundie parents should be given access to the kinds of knowledge and critical skills that would enable them to handle living and working in secular society, should they decide as adults that they would like to do so. I think it's malicious for parents to make it as hard as possible for their kids to leave fundamentalism, a life that the parents themselves have freely chosen.

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(apparently, they are afraid of "vampires and witchcraft in german public schools" )
:lol: :lol: :lol:

German schools really can't be too bad, given the standard of English which their teenagers can speak, ie fluent.

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If they want to homeschool without much oversight, they could of course move to the UK where there only duty is to provide an 'efficient full time education suitable to age, ability and aptitude' efficient being legally defined 'as achieves what it sets out to achieve' even if that is religious indoctrination.

However home ed in the UK seems to be dominated by left wing, hippy sorts with a few atheist libertarians thrown in, so not much community for them.

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It's normal for parents to be nervous about sending their little babies off into the big bad world, but whereas most of us rip the bandaid off and cope, homeschool parents never have to. They spend their children's whole lives in that first day of school state. I have a friend who homeschools, our oldest children are a few years into schooling now. The day school first started we were very similar, both concernced about our special snowflake babies in the big bad world. But where I have relaxed and seen my child have challenges and conflicts with mean kids or kids she doesn't really get and grow and become stronger and more resilient for it (not that it was easyto see tears and emotional pain), my friend has stayed the same. If anything she's more concerned about other kids because hers are still novices and the other kids are older and tougher.

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