Rebecca Eleventy!!!l! Uncle in hell?

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

hiswayserves-hiswayserves.blogspot.com.au/2013/05/uncle-don.html?m=1

'We tried to witness to him through the years. He claimed to

be changed, but his lifestyle didn't show it. I can't say for sure,

but I don't think he knew Jesus and won't know until eternity.'

First of all-how judgemental. I know lots of people on here have Rebecca as their pet fundy but saying someone didn't know Jesus because even though they CLAIMED they did in her opinion their lifestyle wasn't what a Christian should be so they couldn't be.

Lovely. And as she does believe in hell (she has said that before)...does this mean she is saying her uncle is in hell or am I being overly sensitive?

I have so many lovely religious friends who are gay who would be so hurt by someone saying because their lifestyle is 'sinful' they clearly don't know Jesus

Anyway may be overly harsh on the poor girl so feel free to jump in & defend her & change my mind back to liking Elevently!!!l!lll!

[formergothardite]

No, I think she is saying her uncle is in hell. I really don't think this family is any less judgmental than any other fundie, they just usually keep it off their blog.

[Jana814]

I also think that she is saying that he is in hell.

[kpmom]

Yup, she is definitely saying he's in hell.

I just hope his family doesn't read her blog. Judgemental and insensitive.

[Cannelle]

We had a friend (she's been steadily becoming more and more fundy, and more and more annoying over the years) whose grandmother died. At the funeral, my dh was trying to comfort her and be nice and he said, "Well, at least she's in a better place." The friend replied, completely deadpan, "No, she wasn't saved, so she's burning in Hell right now."

Always a fun way to think of your grandmother.

[Koala]

If he's in hell, it's her sadistic God that created it and put him there.

[Triplet3]

I feel disappointed in Rebecca. Having followed her blog for ages, it does seem to me that she is a genuinely kind person at heart, and in the comments on that blog post she made a few months ago about people attacking her, she showed maturity in the way she responded to the commenters (who hadn't hidden that they were from many different walks of life). I hope she comes to realise that in the current blog post she is being judgmental and insensitive, and adjusts her views and behaviour appropriately - she has said before that she tries to be Christ-like, so I have some hope that she would be willing to accept valid criticism. I get the impression she does try to be a good person. I have always seen Rebecca as being a victim of fundamentalism rather than a perpetrator, and feel sorry for her.

[snarkyjan]

Wherever her uncle is now (and I don't think it's hell), he is probably grateful that his family can't godbother him any more.

[rward]

We had a friend (she's been steadily becoming more and more fundy, and more and more annoying over the years) whose grandmother died. At the funeral, my dh was trying to comfort her and be nice and he said, "Well, at least she's in a better place." The friend replied, completely deadpan, "No, she wasn't saved, so she's burning in Hell right now."

Always a fun way to think of your grandmother.

I think it was Thomas Aquinas (I may be libeling a dead philosopher) who said that one of the principal pleasures of Heaven was watching people burn in Hell.

There is so much wrong with that, it makes me a little nauseated.

[FeministShrew]

Ah, the fundie life. Being terrified for years that my dad would die before I could get him saved & would burn in hell. The relief when he told my pastor that he was saved a week before during a visit by my aunt's pastor. The doubt after he died when people told me he couldn't be in heaven because he was never baptised & hadn't attended church, (he had lung cancer & was just too sick), an besides, he was "saved" by a Methodist minister so it didn't count anyway. The guilt because I begged god to do whatever it took to save my dad, then his lung cancer came back. You know, today I know it wasn't my fault, but I would rather have my daddy back, living & unsaved, than dead.

Hearing people say, "Well, I know my loved one is in hell because he never got saved/ committed suicide/ was backslid." Seeing parents cry because they were sure their black sheep child was in hell. Listening to a mother saying she believed God caused her son to die in a horrible car wreck shortly after he was saved so he could go on to heaven & not backslide.

Yelling & even cursing at my 20-yo nephew because he stopped coming to church, calling his gf horrible names because I blamed her for corrupting him. (Think "I'm a godwarrior! You're not a Christian!")

Feeling so smug on the way to church & as we went out to eat after church, because I was so enlightened & holy & one of the chosen speshul snoeflakes & Jeebus loved me best.

I was truly a horrible person when I was religious. The more I think about it, the more I think there is no such thing as fundie lite." The clothes may be normal, women may work outside the hime, kids may go to public school, but deep down the ugliness is still there. You know you're right, & god help anyone who doesn't believe the way you do.

I am so glad to be through with all that crap.

[Jana814]

Wherever her uncle is now (and I don't think it's hell), he is probably grateful that his family can't godbother him any more.

I agree w/ your post 100%

[laura oz]

I have often been confused by the "God is love" entree that was served with a side of "believe or I'll burn your ass forever" that I was served every Sunday, Monday, and Wednesday of my younger years. These days I prefer to find my spirituality and mental clarity in more palatable ways.

ETA I din't like the people I went to church with really, and being sentenced to an eternity with their self righteous and hateful smugness, I'd choose the alternative. Go to hell for the company and heaven for the climate---Mark Twain

[johnhugh]

Don't forget that Rebecca makes an idol of the Maxwells, so however sweat and kind she can come across she shares their ideology. And as Stevie has shown, you can say you are are Christian all you want, but if you don't believe in the Maxwell version you are going to HELL.

At least if the wake needs catering, it will give her mother yet another excuse to bake eleventy cakes and desserts!!!1!!

[formergothardite]

Depending on what type of fundie they are, his "lifestyle" that didn't show he was a Christian could be anything from watching R rated movies to drinking a beer.

[bionicmlle]

I read it as they were hopeful that he had "been saved" (I despise that term but it's their vernacular...) but doubted it and they'll finally find out when they actually go to Heaven and see if he is there or not. I wonder if they believe in a hell that presently exists and that souls go there or Heaven right after you die or that people will go there after the resurrection/second coming (also a term I hate!).

[infooverload]

Ah, the fundie life. Being terrified for years that my dad would die before I could get him saved & would burn in hell. The relief when he told my pastor that he was saved a week before during a visit by my aunt's pastor. The doubt after he died when people told me he couldn't be in heaven because he was never baptised & hadn't attended church, (he had lung cancer & was just too sick), an besides, he was "saved" by a Methodist minister so it didn't count anyway. The guilt because I begged god to do whatever it took to save my dad, then his lung cancer came back. You know, today I know it wasn't my fault, but I would rather have my daddy back, living & unsaved, than dead.

Hearing people say, "Well, I know my loved one is in hell because he never got saved/ committed suicide/ was backslid." Seeing parents cry because they were sure their black sheep child was in hell. Listening to a mother saying she believed God caused her son to die in a horrible car wreck shortly after he was saved so he could go on to heaven & not backslide.

Yelling & even cursing at my 20-yo nephew because he stopped coming to church, calling his gf horrible names because I blamed her for corrupting him. (Think "I'm a godwarrior! You're not a Christian!")

Feeling so smug on the way to church & as we went out to eat after church, because I was so enlightened & holy & one of the chosen speshul snoeflakes & Jeebus loved me best.

I was truly a horrible person when I was religious. The more I think about it, the more I think there is no such thing as fundie lite." The clothes may be normal, women may work outside the hime, kids may go to public school, but deep down the ugliness is still there. You know you're right, & god help anyone who doesn't believe the way you do.

I am so glad to be through with all that crap.

I remember my mom being really upset about my fathers death since he committed suicide. She really struggled with the whole he maybe in hell religious aspect. We attended a church service at the National Cathedral of all places and it was in basically the basement and it was such a unique and powerful experience. It was the only time I have attended a service where after there was a Q&A session and people asked tough questions on the spot. I unfortunately do not remember what they said to my mother regarding my dad, but she found a peace after that. Personally I have walked away from the faith and do not struggle with the whole I'm going to hell. My husband has a sense of sadness for me that I'm not "saved." I think I view faith differently and I do not want to be a Pascal's Wager Christian or a lifeboat type Christian. On a side note when I see signs like dogs do not go to heaven on church billbords I chuckle a little and think of the following verse from Ecclesiastes: After all, the same fate awaits human beings and animals alike. One dies just like the other. They are the same kind of creature. A human being is no better off than an amimal, because life has no meaning for either. They are both going to the same place---the dust (3:19-20).

[slh12280]

I can believe that is what she meant. Hell is one of those things that I will never understand how it is just. Supposedly, we will all understand the justice of it someday O.o I think it was John Calvin that said something like: the walls of hell are lined with the souls of babies. Ditto on the quote from Aquinas. I am not a sadist!

The more I think about the afterlife in general the less sense it makes to me. A big part of me doesn't want to live forever. Maybe because all I can imagine is how life is now? Everything gets boring after a while, though. Then with hell you can get saved at the last minute and it's all good but if you weren't born in the right place you might be toast? (yes, I know some Christians do not believe that). Why the need to punish? Why not just let them be separate or destroy them or even punish them for a time in proportion to their crimes? I would even let a serial killer off after a while. Plus, murderers and victims could end up in the same place if they both get saved. So some people have to pay for the things they do wrong when others don't. If predestination really were true then God really would be choosing whom to send to hell. I know the arguments; hell is the default setting and all that.

How come Christians can't even agree on who is saved? Why punish someone forever? There is no purpose. It doesn't teach them anything. It isn't for the function of protecting humanity at large. It must simply be for the enjoyment of the one doing the punishing. That is a view of God I cannot accept.

In a real life experience, my mother described someone she used to go to church with. The woman was saying how some of her relatives were baptizing their children into the Catholic church. She was very distraught about this. Apparently, she just about in tears describing how they were lost and hell-bound. What a sad way to live. Sometimes, I think it gives life more meaning if you realize it is only temporary and there might not be a "continuation."

/end theological question corner

[Hane]

Rebecca said that her uncle didn't know Jesus and wouldn't "until eternity." This reminds me of the Biblical passage that refers to all the dead being "asleep" until the second coming of Christ. Maybe this could be taken to mean that she thinks he may still have a chance?

[AlexIsAwake]

I don't believe for a second that she still thinks he has a chance. No matter how nice Rebecca may seem, her belief is the same as every other fundie Christian - you die without "accepting Christ," you go to hell. Period. No if's, and's, or but's.

[ThatSnark]

We had a friend (she's been steadily becoming more and more fundy, and more and more annoying over the years) whose grandmother died. At the funeral, my dh was trying to comfort her and be nice and he said, "Well, at least she's in a better place." The friend replied, completely deadpan, "No, she wasn't saved, so she's burning in Hell right now."

Always a fun way to think of your grandmother.

Gaaah! Whatever became of "don't speak ill of the dead?" Sheesh. Some people.

I'm with you on "sweet" Eleventy. She's like all the pet fundies-- candylike until you lick through to the rotten center, and they're all alike inside. It's hate wrapped in a cheerful countenance.

[Rescinded and Mended]

It never ceases to amaze me how those who are still within the physical world, the world of the living, will use tortured metaphors about the nature of perpetual suffering in the afterlife to people so that they can control them. What lies beyond will always be a subject of great debate. The only truth is that no one will know until the day we all get there. Both eternal happiness and eternal suffering in the hereafter are highly overrated, and are used only to fulfill the needs of an agenda.

Only the living set the parameters for damnation.

[RosyDaisy]

I cannot even imagine thinking let alone posting after my uncle's death that he was in Hell for not accepting Christ. My whole family (including the fundies) would kick my ass into the next galaxy.

[Hane]

At 60, I find I'm surprised at the number of young people I meet who were raised with no religious observance at all, or who were raised in atheist/agnostic households. (Yeah, OK--maybe I'm naive, but where I grew up, every family belonged to a church or synagogue, and attended regularly.)

That said, I am heartened by all of these young atheists/agnostics who are appalled by the supposition that one must believe in a god in order to live a moral, ethical, compassionate life. They're good people because it's the best way to live with their fellow humans--not because a supreme being is looking over their shoulder 24/7.

[klavierspieler]

Rebecca said that her uncle didn't know Jesus and wouldn't "until eternity." This reminds me of the Biblical passage that refers to all the dead being "asleep" until the second coming of Christ. Maybe this could be taken to mean that she thinks he may still have a chance?

I don't really follow Rebecca very closely, so I'm not certain that she's the same flavor of fundie that I grew up. That being said, the theology that I was taught, which sounds like what her family subscribes to, is that as soon as you die, you go to heaven or hell depending on whether or not you were saved. You remain there, wherever you went, until the end of time when Jesus has come back for all of his followers and destroyed the earth. Then Jesus hauls everyone out of hell and they have to stand before him for the Great White Throne of Judgement while all the Christians watch. At that time, all of the lost will be forced to kneel before Jesus, "know" him as he really is, and publicly admit that they were wrong and he is actually Lord before they get cast into the Lake of Fire (which is a different place than hell) for the rest of eternity. So no second chances, just public humiliation before final defeat.

[formerlyfundie]

Ah, the fundie life. Being terrified for years that my dad would die before I could get him saved & would burn in hell. The relief when he told my pastor that he was saved a week before during a visit by my aunt's pastor. The doubt after he died when people told me he couldn't be in heaven because he was never baptised & hadn't attended church, (he had lung cancer & was just too sick), an besides, he was "saved" by a Methodist minister so it didn't count anyway. The guilt because I begged god to do whatever it took to save my dad, then his lung cancer came back. You know, today I know it wasn't my fault, but I would rather have my daddy back, living & unsaved, than dead.

Hearing people say, "Well, I know my loved one is in hell because he never got saved/ committed suicide/ was backslid." Seeing parents cry because they were sure their black sheep child was in hell. Listening to a mother saying she believed God caused her son to die in a horrible car wreck shortly after he was saved so he could go on to heaven & not backslide.

Yelling & even cursing at my 20-yo nephew because he stopped coming to church, calling his gf horrible names because I blamed her for corrupting him. (Think "I'm a godwarrior! You're not a Christian!")

Feeling so smug on the way to church & as we went out to eat after church, because I was so enlightened & holy & one of the chosen speshul snoeflakes & Jeebus loved me best.

I was truly a horrible person when I was religious. The more I think about it, the more I think there is no such thing as fundie lite." The clothes may be normal, women may work outside the hime, kids may go to public school, but deep down the ugliness is still there. You know you're right, & god help anyone who doesn't believe the way you do.

I am so glad to be through with all that crap.

When I first became a Christian in my teens, a girl in our youth group committed suicide. I was a friend of hers so her parents asked me to speak with the youth pastors and lead pastor about what to say at her funeral, personal details they didn't know, funny jokes, things like that. I clearly remember the lead pastor very matter of factly saying (during closing prayer over the meeting) that this was "not a celebration of life, but a victory for death and Satan's culture and power."...And that she had "given up to the problems of this world" instead of trusting Jesus.

I just about fell out right there and stormed out, crying the whole night long, conflicted about what was said. I never had the courage to tell her parents what they said until years later, once they had left the church themselves. (mostly due to rude looks and people saying the weirdest and wrong things) I also left the church shortly after the funeral and have had that convo repeat over and over in my head as I have been trying to recover my faith. This wasn't even a fundie church, it was pretty modern and non denominational.

Oh and not too long ago, my neighbor died, and his SUPER conservative, asshole son said (AT THE FUNERAL!) that "Satan would have a good time with his Dad" because he was too stubborn to accept Jesus. That he and Satan would have a good time seeing who was more troublesome. :(