No African Black American fundys?

[dawbs]

That makes me wonder, since there do seem to be more white fundies than there are black (or Asian, Latino or other racial group) fundies: are fundies still opposed to interracial marriages? I know that back when there were laws banning interracial marriage, many churches supported those laws. Today most "mainstream" churches seem to be welcoming of interracial couples AFAIK, but what about fundie churches?

IME, still pretty opposed--or at least were 10-15 years ago.

[debrand]

I don't know if this counts as fundie but there was a drug cartel in Mexico that required its members to read Wild At Heart by Christian author John Eldredge.

http://gazette.com/article/100813

I can't imagine how the conversation went went with potential drug cartel members.

The boss "Are you ready to maim, torture and kill people so that the drug trade?"

Recruit. "Hell yeah"

Boss: "I just have one further requirement"

Recruit: "Do you want me to rough up someone?"

Boss: "Just read this Christian book on how to be an honorable man."

Recruit." Why?"

Boss: "Hey, do you think that we let illiterate people or atheist join our cartel? Shesh. We have to have some morals."

[sassycupcake]

I think white fundies would claim to be ok with interracial marriage, but if an African American fundie boy asked Pa Duggar or Pa Keller about courting, they would find some way to make sure he never gets past the initial questioning.

Don't the Bateses have Confederate memorabilia and pictures of prominent Klan members as decor? I doubt Gil would even attempt to convince anyone he's not a hardened racist.

That could also explain why there aren't many African Americans (or non-whites in general) in ATI- even if Gothard's programs aren't openly racist, everyone knows that a good percentage of ATI families are racist as shit. Add in Gothard's ban on socializing with non-fundies, and ATI just doesn't sound very appealing to anyone who isn't pasty white.

[Nootbar]

I read a lot of the blogs and see pictures of the fundy familys, but Im not ever seeing the African American people. Is fundy style not their beliefs generally? Is there a racism feeling so they dont want to join the ATI? Any ideas about this?

Sadly, there's this African American christian homeschool (family with ties to ALERT academy). They were recently charged with abusing their foster and biological children, who've been removed from the home: http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/0 ... _wide.html

[GenerationCedarchip]

I don't see a lot in blogland, but I know more than a few African-American fundies offline. There is a nondenominational fundie/fundie-lite chapel near me that has a big homeschool group and they are about 1/3 African-American. I don't see a lot of African-American families in reformed circles but they are more represented at some of the pentecostal and nondenominational churches.

I can't find it online, but I saw an article in a local magazine talking about the DC schools and how homeschooling is growing in popularity in the region because of safety issues and the declining quality of some of the schools. While we have secular homeschool groups here, I could also see families who are already religious getting pulled in deeper and deeper by the fundies once they start homeschooling.

[cadavreexquis]

I go to a Catholic college (though Catholicism isn't a requirement for admission) and I notice a lot of the African / Caribbean-American girls appear to abide by some fundamentalist principles, such as modern-modest dress, and pursuing a degree in a serving profession like nursing. They largely keep to themselves and they actively avoid activities that involve dancing at some of our events.

Of course, I've never met any of their families so I don't really have a full scope on their religious lives. Also since they're in college I sincerely doubt they have any VF / ATI connections.

[salex]

I read a lot of the blogs and see pictures of the fundy familys, but Im not ever seeing the African American people. Is fundy style not their beliefs generally? Is there a racism feeling so they dont want to join the ATI? Any ideas about this?

My own observations is that there are two things at play (again, wholly anecdotal)

1) Black churches maintain more local power . Their are a lot of independent black churches in my current hometown, with a variety of pastors, prophets and bishops that may or may not be self defined (may or may not have gone to any sort of seminary). These often are not set up to grow as large as ATI, but may be as controlling. They may or may not have the dress codes, or the dress codes may be different. I have seen families who had head coverings and crosses. We occasionlly hear about some of the abuse of power in the local black churches the same way we hear of it in the white churches-- when a scandal is bad enough to hit the papers.

2) I know more black chuch members who follow word of faith / name it claim it than the frumper dressing fundie model.

[mlady]

I checked out the aspiring homemaker blog by Mia and only looked at the photos. Is the whole "don't show any faces" thing done on purpose for modesty/privacy reasons? It really stands out.

[snarktastic]

- have fantasies about how wonderful life was in Victorian times, or before the Civil War

- want to be part of any group that says that slavery wasn't so bad (ie. Vision Forum)

That's what puzzles me about Mia's family. They're REALLY into the whole Victoriana / recreations thing. Why would any black American be thinking fondly of the pre-civil-rights era?

[HereticHick]

Mia's family may be very interested in the history of free African-Americans. I would be, especially if it were part of my family heritage. Its important to tell the history of African-Americans; that doesn't mean you necessarily "think fondly" of the pre-civil rights era.

On her blog, Mia discusses why she doesn't show faces--I do think its for modesty & privacy, and also to focus on the clothing details etc. I think she's lovely, and its nice to see a family that really "walks the walk" when it comes to living simply. They seem to have a true passion for history, gardening & reading that you don't see in the Duggars.

AND she is a much more talented and sophisticated writer that the Duggars and their Gothard friends.

[Anny Nym]

That's what puzzles me about Mia's family. They're REALLY into the whole Victoriana / recreations thing. Why would any black American be thinking fondly of the pre-civil-rights era?

That were my first thoughts too!

Despite her pictures are quite nice and they have one heck of a collection of memorabilia/antiques/nostalgic clutter, I have hardly read a more kitschy romanticization of the 19th century.

Also, don´t they use electricity withhin their daily chores?!

She writes about dashing clothes outdoors, there is a OLD FASHIONED GAS LAMP (that kind which causes many houses on fire) and she´s cooking while holding a candle! So...? Of course, they have obviously have internet, a computer of some sort and a digital camera, but they still seem to roll more with the" Amish" kind of life style.

For example, the friends who live on a farm and were dressed up in something that appears to be an edwardian gown and with pearls: She wrothe underneath "A glimpse of old fashioned femininity..." :roll: Well Mia, you do realize, in this times there were no pearls and pretty dresses for farmgirls. And girls who would wear them wouldn´t socialite with farmers and - let´s face it- definitely not with black farm girls.

Unless they were some sufragette-type...

Also, when I come across a one-room "cabin" (or barack) whole families used to live in, I´m definitely NOT thinking "I took one more glance inside the cozy cabin, admiring the one room home--convinced that it's not the size of a cottage that matters, but the abundance of love found therein."

but instead "Lice! Bedbugs! Tuberculosis! The smell of too many unwashed humans, soaked cloth diapers, cabbage soup! People freaking out or getting drunk off their ass on moonshiner ..."

[Coy Koi]

That's what puzzles me about Mia's family. They're REALLY into the whole Victoriana / recreations thing. Why would any black American be thinking fondly of the pre-civil-rights era?

Yeah, I just read the blog and unlike most of you (I guess?) I found it incredibly obnoxious. To speak exclusively in such overwhelmingly frilly terms about your own life at such length? Oh my God, shut up. It's one thing to romanticize a time period because you mistakenly think it was all sunshine and roses (still annoying though), but you KNOW your own life isn't all perfect. She seems very showy, which is kind of an ironic thing to do about living simply.

I did find the blog fascinating at first though. I'm very interested in lifestyles that I'm not familiar with. But then every single post was the same thing over and over for YEARS. Still interesting that apparently the whole family of five all embraced this style of living, and they didn't start it until the kids were older. I and most teenagers I've known would have flipped their lid to be thrown into that! I can only imagine a fairly rare person, or a person who was born into it, embracing it like that.

And I only skimmed the thing and skipped the vast majority, but I read the term "dear friend" about a hundred zillion times. Okay, all your friends are very dear to you. We get it.

(Man, I'm irritable today 8-) )

[greentree31]

I gotta say, I like reading the Aspiring Homemaker blog by Mia. Sure, its all soft focus photos and flowery prose, but it has a gentle feel that gives me the warm and fuzzies that other fundy bloggers don't give me. I've never read anything that was unkind towards another person or lifestyle. Mia doesn't present her religious views or her lifestyle as superior to all others. I admire that.

Given the fact that she isn't demeaning or arrogant towards others makes me question whether she and her family are true fundies. I think I would consider them to be more traditionalist than fundy.

[Coy Koi]

Yeah, assuming she's being sincere, Mia is probably one of those people who would bore and slightly annoy me if I knew her in real life, but then I'd feel kind of guilty about it because she seems like a very nice person. But there's no substance to what she says. Life includes conflict and negativity. I saw literally not a single hint of that in her blog.

On the general topic of black American fundies, that's what makes them and other minority fundies less common, I think. Most of them can't deny adversity as much as some white fundies do. There are certainly a lot of very religious Christians who are black. Statistically, black people are more religious than white people, and my own personal experience is of that also. But, and I hope I'm not generalizing too much because I'm only speaking from my own experience, black hardcore Christians might go to church a lot and talk about Jesus a lot...but they also, to a certain extent, accept that on a large scale, things like premarital sex are inevitable. Many hardcore Christians who are both black and white are only hardcore Christians when it's convenient for them (e.g. the propensity of straight people who are so against homosexuality because it's a "sin" they don't happen to want to commit anyway, and treat their own personal "sinful" desires as much lesser sins) but on average, black people have experienced more adversity than white people and that means they can't bury their heads in the sand as much.

[Tangy Bee]

Don't the Bateses have Confederate memorabilia and pictures of prominent Klan members as decor? I doubt Gil would even attempt to convince anyone he's not a hardened racist.

That could also explain why there aren't many African Americans (or non-whites in general) in ATI- even if Gothard's programs aren't openly racist, everyone knows that a good percentage of ATI families are racist as shit. Add in Gothard's ban on socializing with non-fundies, and ATI just doesn't sound very appealing to anyone who isn't pasty white.

Kelly Bates has African American relatives. I saw them in some of the family reunion pics last year.

[Tangy Bee]

Have any of you heard about the, Love Abounds at Home blog? It's by a lady named Sandra King, who is a SAHM. She has home schooled all her kids and is down to her very last one. She has also been guilty of teaching her kids that feminism is dangerous...and she is very proud of this! Her daughter courted for a few months and saved her 1st kiss for marriage. One of her sons was involved in a courtship, got engaged...then nothing happened. Her blog has been quiet lately because she is trying to make her life "simple" or something. I guess she would be considered fundie lite. Sandra and her daughters wear pants. She has 2 sons in the military and there is her oldest son that she NEVER talks about so I'm guessing he must be the rebel. Oh and at bridal showers, she tells the bride to never say no to sex ;)

[lilith]

That's what puzzles me about Mia's family. They're REALLY into the whole Victoriana / recreations thing. Why would any black American be thinking fondly of the pre-civil-rights era?

There has been a British black population for a very long time - there was an African legion stationed at Hadrian's wall in the third century. By the mid nineteenth century there were more than fifteen thousand free Africans living in London and a contemporary source claimed that there was "a black face in every village in England".

So the Victoriana obsession doesn't necessarily mean an endorsement of American slavery. There were many free black families in the 19th century, both in America and Britain, and in Britain some of them had joined the middle classes, their families having lived there for hundreds of years.

I am also uncomfortable with the idea that someone should suppress their attraction to the aesthetic of a certain era simply because of their racial background. It may be very empowering for the descendent of slaves to be able to dress as and play "lady of the manor", or she may simply be drawn to the culture of that era. She shouldn't have to excuse or explain that because of her skin colour and presumed cultural background (her family may have been later free immigrants and not been touched by the slave trade at all).

[Triplet3]

jesus-is-lord.com

For some reason the name "Tracy" is ringing a bell? And yeah, her blog is seriously odd.

Based on reading her blog, I'd say she seems mentally ill (and I don't toss that term around lightly) rather than just odd. Some of the stuff she has on the blog are ravings, pure and simple. I feel a tad sorry for her to be honest, but infinitely more sorry for her daughter. :(

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Based on reading her blog, I'd say she seems mentally ill (and I don't toss that term around lightly) rather than just odd. Some of the stuff she has on the blog are ravings, pure and simple. I feel a tad sorry for her to be honest, but infinitely more sorry for her daughter. :(

Whoa that is one intense site. She has one daughter who is like 20x more sheltered than the maxwells and she is a "prepper" too.

[RachelB]

There's also Mrs. Bridget G. at "The Lord's Beautiful World," thelordsbeauty.blogspot.com/, who was mentioned back when FJ was on yuku: http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/1306/M ... t-G?page=1

[hoipolloi]

There was an African-American fundie who actually blogged about her dismay and discomfort over VF's marketing of the Elsie Dinsmore books as well as the Henty books, in all their 19th century racist glory.

[RachelB]

There was an African-American fundie who actually blogged about her dismay and discomfort over VF's marketing of the Elsie Dinsmore books as well as the Henty books, in all their 19th century racist glory.

Cool! Do you remember her name / blog's name? I'd be interested in reading what she has to say.

[lilwriter85]

Kelly Bates has African American relatives. I saw them in some of the family reunion pics last year.

IIRC the two women are Kelly's adopted sisters. I remember them being discussed on FJ before and IIRC they aren't fundie. I think it was mentioned was somewhere that Kelly's family wasn't fundie. I could be wrong about that or have her confused with someone.

[RosyDaisy]

That makes me wonder, since there do seem to be more white fundies than there are black (or Asian, Latino or other racial group) fundies: are fundies still opposed to interracial marriages? I know that back when there were laws banning interracial marriage, many churches supported those laws. Today most "mainstream" churches seem to be welcoming of interracial couples AFAIK, but what about fundie churches?

In my neck of the woods, fundies are absolutely against interracial marriage.

[RosyDaisy]

There was an episode on the Bates show on TLC where they visited relatives (not sure if Gil's or Kelly's). At the end of that episode Grandma made it perfectly clear she was glad to see them leave. So, whichever side of the family that was, I think are either non-fundie or fundie lite.