Jewish Appropriation Tumblr

[Jinger Jar]

Some of the finger wagging on some of the issues on the Tumblr.....take their ruling about the Hamsa, or evil eye charm :evil-eye: . The site gives a list of those who may use it according to their idea of who has the right (Jews, Arab Muslims, Levantine Christians), and categorizes anybody else as committing cultural appropriation. They specifically state don't wear them if you aren't a part of group x, y, or z.

So here's the thing - a friend of mine since graduate school is from Turkey, and over the years she's given me a number of Hamsa. I've received Hamsa charm bracelets, Hamsa earrings, and Hamsa wall plaques. She - a Muslim - has given them to me a Christmas gifts.

Now, is she betraying the people who can legitimately use/wear a Hamsa by giving them to moi, someone who is neither Jewish nor Arab, nor Muslim, nor Levantine Christian? Am I committing cultural appropriation even though I received my Hamsa as gifts? Should I return my gift Hamsa with a note to her about cultural appropriation? Am I allowed to keep my Hamsa but not wear or display them, perhaps tuck them away in my closet in a shoe box? What about after my death? Am I permitted to bequeath my Hamsa to my step-daughters? Or should they be returned to my friend or her next of kin? :shrug:

Color me confused...

[Arete]

So here's the thing - a friend of mine since graduate school is from Turkey, and over the years she's given me a number of Hamsa. I've received Hamsa charm bracelets, Hamsa earrings, and Hamsa wall plaques. She - a Muslim - has given them to me a Christmas gifts.

Now, is she betraying the people who can legitimately use/wear a Hamsa by giving them to moi, someone who is neither Jewish nor Arab, nor Muslim, nor Levantine Christian? Am I committing cultural appropriation even though I received my Hamsa as gifts? Should I return my gift Hamsa with a note to her about cultural appropriation? Am I allowed to keep my Hamsa but not wear or display them, perhaps tuck them away in my closet in a shoe box? What about after my death? Am I permitted to bequeath my Hamsa to my step-daughters? Or should they be returned to my friend or her next of kin? :shrug:

Color me confused...

Well....let's think about this. What is the minimum number of votes to pass a UN resolution? Majority? I know in the US you need a 2/3rds vote by states to amend the Constitution. So, if I cast the Greek/Levantine vote in favor (after all, anyone can stand up and claim to represent the totality of opinion for any group they were born into, amirite?) and the Turkish/Muslim vote goes in favor (your friend did make them a gift, that can definitely be taken as a sign of approval in Turkish Muslim culture) that leaves only the Tumblr bloggers with the nay vote. So, 2/3rds majority, you are kosher to have Hamsas in your possession.

See, it is as the prophet (Isaiah?) said, "Come, let us reason together." ;)

[Jinger Jar]

Okay, I'm not Jewish and I'm not trying to say what people can or can't do, I've just been genuinely curious what you all think about something and this thread is at least somewhat related.

What do you all think about someone who was/is genuinely Jewish and converted to Christianity (or another religion, I suppose)? Can they still identify as Jewish and incorporate Jewish traditions into their own religious practices?

My thoughts are that it's none of my business which spiritual practices/traditions converts keep and which they shed in their spiritual walk, so long as they are not leading people astray if they happen to be in a pastoral position. I'm no one's spiritual director, nor am I a religious teacher to anyone except my stepdaughters. I see it as a pastor's or spiritual director's job to help converts determine what to keep, tweak, or leave behind altogether in their faith journeys. :shrug:

[yewchapel]

So here's the thing - a friend of mine since graduate school is from Turkey, and over the years she's given me a number of Hamsa. I've received Hamsa charm bracelets, Hamsa earrings, and Hamsa wall plaques. She - a Muslim - has given them to me a Christmas gifts.

Now, is she betraying the people who can legitimately use/wear a Hamsa by giving them to moi, someone who is neither Jewish nor Arab, nor Muslim, nor Levantine Christian? Am I committing cultural appropriation even though I received my Hamsa as gifts? Should I return my gift Hamsa with a note to her about cultural appropriation? Am I allowed to keep my Hamsa but not wear or display them, perhaps tuck them away in my closet in a shoe box? What about after my death? Am I permitted to bequeath my Hamsa to my step-daughters? Or should they be returned to my friend or her next of kin? :shrug:

Color me confused...

That would be fine. I have seen on other, reasonable anti-appropriation tumblrs/blogs (run by First Nations people in this case) that if a member of that culture gives xyz special thing to a non-member, that's perfectly fine, it's a non-member taking something uninvited that's wrong.

[jaelh]

That would be fine. I have seen on other, reasonable anti-appropriation tumblrs/blogs (run by First Nations people in this case) that if a member of that culture gives xyz special thing to a non-member, that's perfectly fine, it's a non-member taking something uninvited that's wrong.

That still doesn't deal with members of X community selling a culturally specific item.

By the standard above, they're legitimately able to "give" people permission to use/wear the item.

What if, for example, an ethnic group realises they can make good money repurposing embroidered old clothes into souvenirs for tourists - in or out? What if they sell the old clothes themselves? and so on.

Is it different if the community is wealthy or poor?

This whole "permission" vs. "taking" line just isn't as clear to me as it seems. There's way too much grey.

[yewchapel]

That still doesn't deal with members of X community selling a culturally specific item.

By the standard above, they're legitimately able to "give" people permission to use/wear the item.

What if, for example, an ethnic group realises they can make good money repurposing embroidered old clothes into souvenirs for tourists - in or out? What if they sell the old clothes themselves? and so on.

Is it different if the community is wealthy or poor?

This whole "permission" vs. "taking" line just isn't as clear to me as it seems. There's way too much grey.

I would say that it's fine for that group to sell culturally specific items, it's when a business that's totally removed from that culture does it that it becomes an issue. I'm not part of a group with culturally specific items (I would argue that crosses and crucifixes are part of Western culture as much as my own religious group) so I am not really best placed to answer anyway.

[Dinorah]

So here's the thing - a friend of mine since graduate school is from Turkey, and over the years she's given me a number of Hamsa. I've received Hamsa charm bracelets, Hamsa earrings, and Hamsa wall plaques. She - a Muslim - has given them to me a Christmas gifts.

Now, is she betraying the people who can legitimately use/wear a Hamsa by giving them to moi, someone who is neither Jewish nor Arab, nor Muslim, nor Levantine Christian? Am I committing cultural appropriation even though I received my Hamsa as gifts? Should I return my gift Hamsa with a note to her about cultural appropriation? Am I allowed to keep my Hamsa but not wear or display them, perhaps tuck them away in my closet in a shoe box? What about after my death? Am I permitted to bequeath my Hamsa to my step-daughters? Or should they be returned to my friend or her next of kin? :shrug:

Color me confused...

Yeah, I got one from a Jewish shopkeeper in Israel, after I bought a bunch of things. I like wearing it. Should I have returned it on the grounds I wasn't Jewish? Anyway this is ridiculous. I understand having an issue with people using specifically religious tokens such as magen David's but this is like claiming you can't wear a claddagh ring if you're not Irish or of Irish descent.

[Rachel333]

Just saw the latest post about freejinger from earlier today, titled "freejinger, tw gross." All I'll say is that it really annoys me when people use "trigger warning" for anything that might be even mildly irritating.

[Dinorah]

Just saw the latest post about freejinger from earlier today, titled "freejinger, tw gross." All I'll say is that it really annoys me when people use "trigger warning" for anything that might be even mildly irritating.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who find tws for just about anything annoying...

[jaelh]

I would say that it's fine for that group to sell culturally specific items, it's when a business that's totally removed from that culture does it that it becomes an issue. I'm not part of a group with culturally specific items (I would argue that crosses and crucifixes are part of Western culture as much as my own religious group) so I am not really best placed to answer anyway.

Yes, but the whole thing - again - is no where near so clear.

What if people are selling goods because of financial pressure? How much pressure do you need to be under to 'negate' their permission?

What if it's a Jewish person who encourages you to get/does you Hebrew tattoo?

What actually constitutes "not removed" from a culture? And who gets to determine where this line is? (for example, you bet ultra-orthodox jews are going to draw the "removed from culture" line at a very, very different place to an atheist jewish person).

And crucifixes are western? Some of the strongest Christian movements are in south/central America, the Pacific and Africa. At what point can we say that Christian symbolism has become part of certain forms of cultural practice of other groups? Can practising christians from these communities tell an atheist, crucifix-wearting westerner to take the cross off?

anyway. I'm not asking you to answer these questions, it's just this whole "line in concrete" is... well, a line in the sand. It all depends on where you draw the lines around 'what is x culture', and how you construct consent (marxists are going to put it in a very different place to neo-liberals, for example).

[mausi]

And finally...

1. Your little hashtag of "# ALSO LOL EVERYONE'S A -INSERT GROUP- ON THE INTERNET WHEN IT HELPS THEM IN A FIGHT" in response to a quote from my post is, quite frankly, disgusting, but also completely hypocritical - you whine that people don't respect your "struggles"~*, yet automatically dismiss people whose families have faced the same struggles but who don't agree with you as being not Jewish enough.

This seems like an appropriate place to put this: I don't actually believe this person has a BA in genocide studies. # OMG LOL EVERYONE HAS A BA IN GENOCIDE STUDIES WHEN THEYRE TRYING TO TURN BACK FROM BEING AN IGNORANT ASS HAT.

Because, seriously, anyone with a BA in Genocide Studies has surely taken a class on Nazi Germany. And anyone who has taken a class on Nazi Germany surely knows there was absolutely no appropriation of 'Jewish' culture going on. Even my Intro to Euro History first year students know this.

[AVENues]

That person strikes me as a supremacist.

[duplessis3]

I'm just worried about culturally appropriating food. I had hot and sour soup today, that I made, and Caspian Sea style yogurt that I made. I am not Chinese nor am I from anywhere around the Caspian Sea. (Is it still in Russia? /ignorantofformersovietuniongeography) Can I still eat gefilte fish? Matzoh?

I assure you that I am probably wearing some of the soup too.

[Arete]

I think the more important question is why would you want to eat gefilte fish? :shock:

[formergothardite]

Dear people writing that Tumblr, since you are obviously logging in here to read, can you explain why you won't bother to reply here?

[meda]

I think the more important question is why would you want to eat gefilte fish? :shock:

No one said cultural appropriation was easy....

[Rachel333]

Dear people writing that Tumblr, since you are obviously logging in here to read, can you explain why you won't bother to reply here?

They may have accounts now, but someone from here was copying all this and sending it to them.

[thoughtful]

I think the more important question is why would you want to eat gefilte fish? :shock:

It's OK.

Once a year.

Without the goo.

[AVENues]

Ack, there's something really similar in SE Asia... the fishball soup. I call it the eyeball soup. They look like eyeballs, the idea is basically the same, ground fish and other shrugworthy stuff. Not so sure about wanting to taste it. The recipe looks like cat food recipe, no offense.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I freaking love gefilte fish, never understood why everyone else at Seder always treats eating it like a chore! ;) However, I'll pass on the apples and honey at Rosh Hashana....

[duplessis3]

I like gefilte fish. I just culturally appropriated a lengua burrito, but I don't think the men at the restaurant mind.

[pimpom]

So, this whole tumblr and all its little tumblr fellows just really stuck with me, because it resonated with a feeling I've been having for a while, when reading some of my otherwise favourite blogs/sites (xojane especially)

And then I found the term for it! SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIORS! (Which is something completely different from people striving for social justice)

Now I have a name for my unease.

Also, read this hilarious post called : Me And The Abstracted Persona of the Anti-Ism Community At Large

http://alicorn24.livejournal.com/44922.html

[fundiefun]

Yikes I had no idea the rain of snark would get this bad over discussing their tumblr

[JesusFightClub]

I got a reply to my post here, which was cool. I would have to make a tumblr to reply properly though, and I don't want one. Tumblr people, please can you get an FJ log-on? It would make discussion a lot easier...

A minor point on Trotsky and Lenin. For my sins, I'm a Trotskyist (which involves being a Leninist as well) and, yeah, what you said. Lenin was about as Jewish as I am, which is *not*.

The question of Jewishness, national identity and religious belief informing politics is actually a really interesting one in the context of Marxist communism and specifically Russian communism. Stalin had a shot in attempting to answer it in what is his only interesting contribution to Marxist theory:

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archi ... 913/03.htm

If you like to read this, I'm happy to discuss it. It's straying far away from FJ's remit, though...

Long answer short, I do know Jewish comrades whose Judaism does inform their politics (normally on the question of Israel/Palestine). But I agree with you that you can't "blame" Jews or Judaism for either Lenin or Trotsky. Lenin wasn't Jewish by any stretch of the imagination and Trotsky was, well, Trotsky - even if you haven't any time for the man or his work, blaming Jews for him doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. It's like saying all Christians have the same politics.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I got a reply to my post here, which was cool. I would have to make a tumblr to reply properly though, and I don't want one. Tumblr people, please can you get an FJ log-on? It would make discussion a lot easier...

A minor point on Trotsky and Lenin. For my sins, I'm a Trotskyist (which involves being a Leninist as well) and, yeah, what you said. Lenin was about as Jewish as I am, which is *not*.

The question of Jewishness, national identity and religious belief informing politics is actually a really interesting one in the context of Marxist communism and specifically Russian communism. Stalin had a shot in attempting to answer it in what is his only interesting contribution to Marxist theory:

http://www.marxists.org/reference/archi ... 913/03.htm

If you like to read this, I'm happy to discuss it. It's straying far away from FJ's remit, though...

Long answer short, I do know Jewish comrades whose Judaism does inform their politics (normally on the question of Israel/Palestine). But I agree with you that you can't "blame" Jews or Judaism for either Lenin or Trotsky. Lenin wasn't Jewish by any stretch of the imagination and Trotsky was, well, Trotsky - even if you haven't any time for the man or his work, blaming Jews for him doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. It's like saying all Christians have the same politics.

Past my bedtime here, but I'm wondering how much you've studied about Stalin's later actions re Russian Jews, from the Birobijan idea to the notorious "doctors' plot"?