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fundiefun

Jewish Appropriation Tumblr

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crazyforkate

My goodness, these bloggers are just getting nastier and nastier. There are ways of talking about these issues without being jackasses, but apparently they haven't learned them. Or just don't care.

My cousins are Jewish, my family is Christian, and we have always, always welcomed each other into every family event and celebration. As a result, we have all learned a lot from each other. This person seems to be advocating an unworkable form of total separation that benefits no one.

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Soldevi
(I’m still of the opinion that any non-Jewish FJers have absolutely 0 say in this debate and shouldn’t be involved because idgaf about goyishe opinions, but I’m willing to discuss w/ the Jewish ones.)

I have also something to say to you: :lol:

And I don't care if you take it as antisemitic. You probably will.

Edit: And now they bitch about tichels and headcoverings.

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France Nolan
My goodness, these bloggers are just getting nastier and nastier. There are ways of talking about these issues without being jackasses, but apparently they haven't learned them. Or just don't care.

My cousins are Jewish, my family is Christian, and we have always, always welcomed each other into every family event and celebration. As a result, we have all learned a lot from each other. This person seems to be advocating an unworkable form of total separation that benefits no one.

Apparently it's okay if we're given express permission.

Now since American English a rife with words adopted from other languages (off the top of my head I can think of words that are of Dutch, Spanish, Italian, Yiddish, German, Hebrew, French, Russian, Polish, Danish, not to mention the all the words that are derived from First Nation languages) should I ask for permission if I use a word that's not of English origin?

Actually, should I ask for permission to speak English at all because ethnically I'm not English?

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pimpom

I know I'm treading on thin ice here, but it seems that a situation has been created in general with (fear of) antisemitism where you Just Can't Win with some Jewish people.

If you don't like Jews, you're bad (and I agree with that).

If you do like Jews as a group, you're fetishizing them and otherizing them, instead of seeing them as people.

If, throught their substantial presence in and influence on US (and thus world) mainstream culture (esp. entertainment), you adopt some of their words/ expressions, you're a thief.

What, pray tell, is the correct approach?

Maybe ignoring them completely? At least that seems what the writer of this tumblr had in mind...Maybe she could have given it a title that covered the content a bit better though. Something like: LEAVE US ALONE!

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mausi

I have also something to say to you: :lol:

And I don't care if you take it as antisemitic. You probably will.

Seriously? 'idgaf about goyische opinions'? was actually written by someone over the age of 17?

Dear anonymous tumblr writer,

your seemingly strong desire to rebuild the ghetto walls would make my ancestors weep.

Liebe Grüße,

the descendant of Jeckes/Yekkes who returned to Germany (is THAT a topic-- marginalised by a marginalised international minority)

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pimpom

Seriously? 'idgaf about goyische opinions'? was actually written by someone over the age of 17?

Dear anonymous tumblr writer,

your seemingly strong desire to rebuild the ghetto walls would make my ancestors weep.

Liebe Grüße,

the descendant of Jeckes/Yekkes who returned to Germany (is THAT a topic-- marginalised by a marginalised international minority)

I fear it wasn't...

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OnceModestTwiceShy

OMFG I am so ashamed for my own kind right now.

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jaelh

Bloggers.

I see a few references to your bloggers being Ashkenazi but being able to "pass" as white.

This confuses me.

What is your definition of white?

Also. What do you study in a BA in genocide studies? Yes, genocide. But..... A major in interdisciplinary approaches to each major genocide of the twentieth century? Curious.

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thoughtful

I’m the angry one (or one of them- all of us here tend towards “we’re not here to educate anyone, just to share our outrage among our own people / try to make asshole appropriators cry), and I’m hoping to get my account approved on FJ so I can respond there rather than conducting a talk between sites, which gets to be a pain. But I did indeed read your post. (I’m still of the opinion that any non-Jewish FJers have absolutely 0 say in this debate and shouldn’t be involved because idgaf about goyishe opinions, but I’m willing to discuss w/ the Jewish ones.)

I assume this was to me, since the title was "person with the long post" :lol: (on their site at Tumblr -- I can't figure out how to answer it there, other than posting something new, and it would be so far from the original post that I'm not sure it would make sense. And, their site, their rules -- I don't want to get into a whole off-topic discussion there).

So I'm answering here.

The person whose post I was answering has already registered here at FJ, they said, and isn't answering here, so I don't think it was you. But thanks for letting me know you weren't ignoring me. There was just so much in the "cute" post that was inaccurate, I had to give it a try.

I can certainly understand why the folks there answer the "why are you people so meeeean?" posts with disdain -- we get those too (and from many of the same people you do). And I understand that you want a place to vent, and only with those who agree with you, about the issue. You have no mandate to educate (neither do we, BTW, and, as I mentioned before, we've had our arguments about snark and rage vs. calm discussion --we decided to let people post their own opinions in their own style).

I just wanted to make sure you all know that FJ is not a site enamored of Christian privilege (not hardly! :lol: ), it is not a bunch of "goyim," and, as I said before, contains a lot of people who see nuance and detail. I think a lot of us would like to see asshole appropriators cry, but might not agree with you (or each other) about who is an asshole appropriator.

BTW, from what I've seen, the non-Jews here don't usually try to have a say in whether appropriation is offensive to Jews, and most are generally pretty supportive. I have no trouble taking their opinions seriously, and debating them when I disagree, but you might not.

As for the fact that trying to have a conversation in two places is annoying -- again, I agree. This is a forum with a very broad range of topics, and a very high tolerance for thread drift, so it might be the more appropriate place to discuss what aspects of appropriation bother us more, whether language crossover is always offensive, and certainly why some here are puzzled by the goynif posters broad definition of what is offensive. We would not be breaking the rules, as we would be on goynif.

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pimpom

I assume this was to me, since the title was "person with the long post" :lol: (on their site at Tumblr -- I can't figure out how to answer it there, other than posting something new, and it would be so far from the original post that I'm not sure it would make sense. And, their site, their rules -- I don't want to get into a whole off-topic discussion there).

So I'm answering here.

The person whose post I was answering has already registered here at FJ, they said, and isn't answering here, so I don't think it was you. But thanks for letting me know you weren't ignoring me. There was just so much in the "cute" post that was inaccurate, I had to give it a try.

I can certainly understand why the folks there answer the "why are you people so meeeean?" posts with disdain -- we get those too (and from many of the same people you do). And I understand that you want a place to vent, and only with those who agree with you, about the issue. You have no mandate to educate (neither do we, BTW, and, as I mentioned before, we've had our arguments about snark and rage vs. calm discussion --we decided to let people post their own opinions in their own style).

I just wanted to make sure you all know that FJ is not a site enamored of Christian privilege (not hardly! :lol: ), it is not a bunch of "goyim," and, as I said before, contains a lot of people who see nuance and detail. I think a lot of us would like to see asshole appropriators cry, but might not agree with you (or each other) about who is an asshole appropriator.

BTW, from what I've seen, the non-Jews here don't usually try to have a say in whether appropriation is offensive to Jews, and most are generally pretty supportive. I have no trouble taking their opinions seriously, and debating them when I disagree, but you might not.

As for the fact that trying to have a conversation in two places is annoying -- again, I agree. This is a forum with a very broad range of topics, and a very high tolerance for thread drift, so it might be the more appropriate place to discuss what aspects of appropriation bother us more, whether language crossover is always offensive, and certainly why some here are puzzled by the goynif posters broad definition of what is offensive. We would not be breaking the rules, as we would be on goynif.

Good that's cleared up then. Happy outrage to you...

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2xx1xy1JD

Another Jew here, FWIW.

I know that cultural appropriation seems to be the outrage of the week...but I just can't seem to get all that outraged about it.

I object to aspects of "Messianic Judaism" for the specific reason that I believe they use Jewish terms and symbols for the explicit purpose of marketing evangelical Christian theology to Jews, knowing that their target audience would avoid them if they were clear about their beliefs at the outset.

Otherwise, though, Yiddish terms have entered the English language. That's what happens in a multicultural society. In many cases, it was Jewish writers and performers themselves who helped to introduce those terms.

I do not believe that language is "owned", so it cannot be subject to theft. Yes, different languages evolve among different groups, but it is not subject to copyright. Since it is a means of communication, it evolves, it spreads, and it takes on new words and drops old ones. Yiddish itself is a result of fusion. Is there a need to rid it of German and Slavic words, if anyone claims that these were appropriated?

At one point in history, knowledge of Yiddish may indeed have served as a code. I've heard stories of Holocaust survivors who identified fellow Jews from a word or phrase. Today, though, most Jews don't have a good knowledge of the language, so it no longer serves that purpose.

The FAQ about the terms goyim, shika, etc. makes absolutely no sense. It's true that goy is simply the Hebrew/Yiddish word for "nation" (and is used in non-offensive ways, eg. the phrase "nation shall not lift up sword against nation"), and that it is commonly used to refer to non-Jews. However, when one group has a secret code to refer to others....inevitably, it will start to take on a negative tone. Using Yiddish terms if your first language is actually Yiddish is fine. Using them as your language to talk about other people behind their backs - not so good.

Cultural appropriation did not cause the Holocaust. Hatred caused the Holocaust. The problem wasn't that Hitler planned a museum about Jews - it was that he planned to exterminate all the Jews, so that a museum to an extinct people would be necessary.

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SpeakNow
Another Jew here, FWIW.

I know that cultural appropriation seems to be the outrage of the week...but I just can't seem to get all that outraged about it.

I object to aspects of "Messianic Judaism" for the specific reason that I believe they use Jewish terms and symbols for the explicit purpose of marketing evangelical Christian theology to Jews, knowing that their target audience would avoid them if they were clear about their beliefs at the outset.

Otherwise, though, Yiddish terms have entered the English language. That's what happens in a multicultural society. In many cases, it was Jewish writers and performers themselves who helped to introduce those terms.

I do not believe that language is "owned", so it cannot be subject to theft. Yes, different languages evolve among different groups, but it is not subject to copyright. Since it is a means of communication, it evolves, it spreads, and it takes on new words and drops old ones. Yiddish itself is a result of fusion. Is there a need to rid it of German and Slavic words, if anyone claims that these were appropriated?

At one point in history, knowledge of Yiddish may indeed have served as a code. I've heard stories of Holocaust survivors who identified fellow Jews from a word or phrase. Today, though, most Jews don't have a good knowledge of the language, so it no longer serves that purpose.

The FAQ about the terms goyim, shika, etc. makes absolutely no sense. It's true that goy is simply the Hebrew/Yiddish word for "nation" (and is used in non-offensive ways, eg. the phrase "nation shall not lift up sword against nation"), and that it is commonly used to refer to non-Jews. However, when one group has a secret code to refer to others....inevitably, it will start to take on a negative tone. Using Yiddish terms if your first language is actually Yiddish is fine. Using them as your language to talk about other people behind their backs - not so good.

Cultural appropriation did not cause the Holocaust. Hatred caused the Holocaust. The problem wasn't that Hitler planned a museum about Jews - it was that he planned to exterminate all the Jews, so that a museum to an extinct people would be necessary.

I'm also Jewish and completely 100% agree with everything you've written.

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Dinorah

How does she intend to go about not interacting with goym IRL at all? She could move to Israel but then depending where she is she would end up interacting almost unavoidably with non-Jews, whether Muslim or Christian Arabs or migrant workers...who sometimes speak fluent Hebrew. Her best bet would be to become a Chassid and move to some place like Crown Hights, I understand that's a way you can strongly limit, if not curtail, interaction with non-Jews, plus be with the few native speakers of Yiddish left, though there might be other disadvantages...

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2xx1xy1JD

Just saw this one:

http://goynif.tumblr.com/post/496003544 ... -look-very

Maybe those gals don't think it's cute, but I do....and no, I don't think that Hitler was comparing Jews to cute kitty-cats.

***********************************************************************************************************

I was thinking about this some more, and here is my general rant against cultural-appropriation rage:

Cultures and religions and languages meet, merge and cross-pollinate. That's life.

I understand that it's not nice to deliberately mock or demean any group - but that's just about not being mean. Cultural appropriation rage seems to be going beyond that.

An underlying assumption seems to be that a culture/language/religion is basically "owned" by a particular group, and that use without permission is therefore "theft". It is this notion of ownership that is problematic for me, ESPECIALLY because I am a Jew.

I'm fairly certain that the Holocaust did not happen because someone took a picture of a cat dressed in a kippah and tallit. I'm equally sure, though, that ultra-nationalism has led to Jewish persecution. Just as Jews were becoming more integrated into their host countries and societies, the ultra-nationalists and fascists came along to protest that Jews were essentially foreign, and couldn't really be accepted as true Frenchmen/Germans/Poles/Russians/Iraqis, etc. Society and culture needed to be "purified" from "foreign" influences. Jews were seen as rootless cosmopolitans - in fact, that was a term that Stalin used to justify anti-Jewish purges. That's why I'm so wary of acting as if we can own cultures and lock them up for our own exclusive use.

The other thing is that Judaism has always been about a fusion of cultures. From the most ancient times, it was shaped by Babylonian, Egyptian and Canaanite cultures. The Talmud was heavily influenced by Greek thought. There have been outside influences throughout history. Certain Jewish cultural practices can be traced back to other groups. The hamsa is not exclusive to Jewish groups. Certain customs of mizrachi or Sephardi Jews were borrowed directly from their Muslim neighbors - like the henna ceremonies the night before a wedding, or the custom of pouring out water when someone is going on a journey. Foods were borrowed from surrounding cultures - aside from a handful of ritual foods, Jewish foods vary from place to place. Am I guilty of cultural appropriation when I order a glatt kosher shawarma (originally an Arab food)? Contrary to what these tublr ladies may think, there is no one particular "Jewish" style of headscarf. Old photos from Eastern Europe show that tying a kerchief under the chin was quite common, and it was common among non-Jewish Eastern Europeans as well. A visit to the Babylonian Jewish Heritage Center in Or Yehuda turns up scenes with women in dress influenced by the surrounding Arab Muslim culture: see http://www.babylonjewry.org.il/new/english/index.html. OTOH, I've seen Muslim women wearing "Jewish-style" tichels with high-necked clothes or an additional scarf around the neck.

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oil

Hebrew is not only a minority language of a minority people. It's the national language of a country that has IMMIGRANTS to it. It is going to become the daily, majority, dare I say it "privileged" language for those people. They go to school in it and consume all of their recreational media in it. Just because it's a somewhat niche or private language in the diaspora doesn't change that.

What do you mean Hebrew is privileged language and private language?

Im reading this thread and I dont understand whats going on with the problem? I thought it was the tumblr person is says its appropriation if a non-Jew puts Hebrew or Yiddish tatoos?

(I dont know Yiddish because Im not Askenaz. Im Sabra and speak Hebrew.)

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jaelh

(I dont know Yiddish because Im not Askenaz. Im Sabra and speak Hebrew.)

Can't you be Ashkenazi and sabra?

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oil

Can't you be Ashkenazi and sabra?

Askenaz is Jews who have a decent from Europe. Sabra (tzabur) is Jews who have a decent from Palestine. So you cant be both unless you have one parent of each.

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2xx1xy1JD

Oil - I think that gardenvarietycitizen means that Hebrew is sort of a private language among Jews in the diaspora, but it's an official language in Israel. Same language, but a very different function. Many immigrants will find that they cannot fully function in Israeli society unless and until they learn Hebrew, so speaking Hebrew in Israel will give someone "privilege".

You've lost me on the Ashkenaz vs. sabra distinction. I always thought that sabra = born in Israel, and Ashkenazi means descended from Central or Eastern European Jews. If someone was born in Israel, but their grandfather was born in Poland, they'd be both sabra and Ashkenazi. I've heard a few people describe themselves as Palestinian Jews, if their families were there prior to 1948.

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oil
Oil - I think that gardenvarietycitizen means that Hebrew is sort of a private language among Jews in the diaspora, but it's an official language in Israel. Same language, but a very different function. Many immigrants will find that they cannot fully function in Israeli society unless and until they learn Hebrew, so speaking Hebrew in Israel will give someone "privilege".

You've lost me on the Ashkenaz vs. sabra distinction. I always thought that sabra = born in Israel, and Ashkenazi means descended from Central or Eastern European Jews. If someone was born in Israel, but their grandfather was born in Poland, they'd be both sabra and Ashkenazi. I've heard a few people describe themselves as Palestinian Jews, if their families were there prior to 1948.

Thank you for explaining the private language confusion.

Decent from Palestine means roots go back before the war making the legal State of Israel. I never heard of Palestinian Jew, only a Jew born in Palestine, because there was no state yet, so in my grandparents time it was called Palestine, and of course since way before their time. Palestine now has a different meaning for the land area, of course the Arab state.

Some Israelis say if youre born in Israel even though your parents came from Europe, youre Sabra. Thats a touchy conflict for opinions of the European decent and the Palestine (before statehood of Israel) decent that I never argue with lol.

I will get more clear:

The traditional meaning of Sabra is some one who their roots are from this land especially from before statehood.

The not-traditional meaning is any one born on this land of Israel.

Sabra dont like it to say Askenaz is Sabra because their roots came from Europe and they are the white Jews who mixed with the other groups of people of Europe. Its like ethnic names, Sabra and Askenaz, like how Yiddishkeit is a important culture of Askenaz, but to Sabra its foreign.

But we are all Israeli.

This what I mean of white Jew (Askenaz) and Sabra: But all Israeli.

32506_938684137309_814119_51980560_1990486_n.jpg

Me> Religion is Jew. Nationality is Israeli. Ethnicity is Sabra.

Friend> Religion is Jew. Nationality is Israeli. Ethnicity is Askenaz.

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jaelh

oil, so this is where it's gets tricky.

When you used ethnicity, do you mean something similar to what is meant when people in the west use "race"?** or do you use it to mean group bound by common cultural practices? Are sabra "racially" (and i know it's a bad word, but its the best I can do at this point) and culturally sephardic? Why mandatory palestine, which was a pretty arbitrary distinction anyway?

I wondered this about the blog we've been talking about too. It seems to used ethnicity as referring to a group related by cultural practice/common religious - as in referring so there is to a Jewish ethnicity - but it's a very ashkenazi specific sort of understanding.

How does it work? are there two jewish ethnicities? were there once two nations? or, prior to israel/back in the days of the pale, was there one askhanazi Jewish nation + sephardic Jews (who, without the contiguous territory and specific language were much less "distinct" as a community than the ashk. jews)?

Sorry, the whole race/culture/nation/ethnicity thing is incredibly interesting. If anyone is willing to unpack it with me, it'd be very much appreciated.

**Edit to add: i should say - race as it's used in the US. in australia, we use ethnicity in the way that you seem to be using it here ("ethnic background"). i have no idea what term other communities use.

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Arete

I can only help unpack the issue as far as my own cultural understanding of race and ethnicity go (my first language was Greek, and even though I was born in the US, I didn't assimilate into the American world until I went to school).

If you ask me what my race is, I automatically say Greek. The word Greeks have adopted for race in the 20th century is "ratsa". Previous to that, they would have used the word "ethnos", which would roughly correspond to ethnicity. There is not a "white" race to Greeks. Some races are delineated by national border i.e., French, some are delineated by both shared culture and common descent, so you can speak of "Anglo-Saxons" that span several national borders. When a Greek refers to an Albanian as being a seperate "ratsa" or "ethnos", they aren't talking about how much DNA we may or may not have in common, or shades of skin color. They believe that different cultural experiences seperate one "ratsa" or "ethnos" from another.

I know Greeks who grew up in the Sudan, and Greeks who were born and raised in Ethiopia. It would never occur to them that black Sudanese or black Ethiopians were the same ratsa/ethnos. BTW, these Greeks that were born in the Sudan and Ethiopia and had lives there before they were forced to run? They consider the Sudan HOME. Ethiopia is HOME. Greece is where they landed as refugees because they were of the same culture.

So, for me, nationality is American, ethnicity is Greek.

For my friend, nationality is Ethiopian, ethnicity is Greek.

And now that I have made that clear as mud ;) , I hope oil posts her thoughts on nationality, ethnicity and religion from the perspective of an Israeli.

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formergothardite

How long does it take for accounts to get activated here? The one person says she wants to converse here but her account hasn't gotten activated. I wonder why the person who does have an account here won't respond since it is obvious they are logging in and then c/p things to others so that they can respond over there. If you are going to go through all that, why not just respond here?

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2xx1xy1JD
oil, so this is where it's gets tricky.

When you used ethnicity, do you mean something similar to what is meant when people in the west use "race"?** or do you use it to mean group bound by common cultural practices? Are sabra "racially" (and i know it's a bad word, but its the best I can do at this point) and culturally sephardic? Why mandatory palestine, which was a pretty arbitrary distinction anyway?

I wondered this about the blog we've been talking about too. It seems to used ethnicity as referring to a group related by cultural practice/common religious - as in referring so there is to a Jewish ethnicity - but it's a very ashkenazi specific sort of understanding.

How does it work? are there two jewish ethnicities? were there once two nations? or, prior to israel/back in the days of the pale, was there one askhanazi Jewish nation + sephardic Jews (who, without the contiguous territory and specific language were much less "distinct" as a community than the ashk. jews)?

Sorry, the whole race/culture/nation/ethnicity thing is incredibly interesting. If anyone is willing to unpack it with me, it'd be very much appreciated.

**Edit to add: i should say - race as it's used in the US. in australia, we use ethnicity in the way that you seem to be using it here ("ethnic background"). i have no idea what term other communities use.

The traditional Jewish understanding that I have is that Jewish is an umbrella term, referring to those who have common descent from the ancient Israelite nation and those who have joined via conversion.

Different communities separated out at different times. The Ethiopian Jewish community went to Ethiopia prior to the Talmudic period, so their religious customs were very, very different. The Babylonian Jewish community goes back 2,500 years, to the Babylonian exile by Nebuchadnezer. Jews entered Europe around the time of the Roman exile, 2,000 years ago. Eventually, the two largest communal groups were the Ashkenazi (originally based in Germany, which moved into Eastern Europe over time), which developed in a predominantly Christian setting, and Sephardic (originally based in Spain, which moved into North Africa with the expulsion of Jews from the Iberian Peninsula), which developed in a predominantly Muslim setting. Due to limited communication and contact between these two communities, they developed different customs and religious rulings over time. Some differences are religious, others are purely cultural. Sometimes, other non-Ashkenazi groups get lumped in with Sephardic, when they never had a connection to Spain and are quite distinct. Indian Jews, for example, had their culture develop in a predominantly Hindu environment where there was no anti-semitism.

The majority of American Jews came from Eastern Europe during 2 main waves of immigration. Since they usually shared not only religion but also common language, culture, food, politics, history and a fair bit of DNA (limited gene pool), all of these things came to be associated with Jewish ethnicity/culture in North America. To a certain extent, if I'm introduced to a random North American Jew whose family came over from Eastern Europe around the turn of the century, chances are that much of their family history will be similar to mine and if we play "Jewish geography", sooner or later we will find common connections. That's even truer with the Canadian Jewish community, which is even more concentrated and inbred. When I'm around Ashkenazi Canadian Jews whose families came just over 100 years ago, I can usually guess that they live within a few small areas, and can probably guess which high school their grandparents attended. It's completely normal to find out that someone knows my MIL, or knew relatives of mine in Montreal, or is a distinct cousin. So, in a nutshell, when people from this group would talk about "Jewish" culture, they were actually referring to a small, tight-knit subset.

After the founding of the State of Israel in 1948, Jewish refugees from Arab countries came flooding in, and you had a lot of immigration from some of the smaller Jewish communities as well. By the 1960s, Ashkenazi Jews were in the minority. In Israel, it quickly became obvious that there were several Jewish ethnicities, and the state tried to actively create a new common Israeli identity. In North America, it took longer for people to realize that other Jewish communities exist and to start specifying Ashkenazi as opposed to just Jewish. I remember trying to explain it to my mother that no, boyfriend's Iraqi-Jewish father did not speak Yiddish, didn't come from Montreal, didn't eat bagels and gefilte fish, didn't have the same music, wasn't white - but he was still Jewish.

I recognize the common religion with other Jews, and also some sense of history, shared fate and ancient connection. Certain practical things, though - shared relatives, recent history, food, language, culture - will be most closely shared with Jews from similar backgrounds.

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Soldevi

Contrary to what these tublr ladies may think, there is no one particular "Jewish" style of headscarf. Old photos from Eastern Europe show that tying a kerchief under the chin was quite common, and it was common among non-Jewish Eastern Europeans as well. A visit to the Babylonian Jewish Heritage Center in Or Yehuda turns up scenes with women in dress influenced by the surrounding Arab Muslim culture: see http://www.babylonjewry.org.il/new/english/index.html. OTOH, I've seen Muslim women wearing "Jewish-style" tichels with high-necked clothes or an additional scarf around the neck.

I wonder what they think about those Jewish bloggers who share their technique videos and tips freely and openly *gasp* to non-religious, non-Jewish people. In Europe some sort of headcloth (scarf, wimple, hat, bonnet, hennin...) was used for centuries, and even today as a part of peasant dress in some places. What about wigs? Cultures borrow from each others. What about Spanish hijab vs. recent tichel trends? Who "owns" the style? http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/4504/radwahijabyi2.jpg vs. http://wrapunzel.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/img_0564.jpg?w=1105 A tichel style called butterfly is a general way to wear scarf where I come from. That, and a bun style. Should non-Jews stop wearing a scarf altogether?

But, then again, I think it is useless to communicate with them. They have clearly decided who has worth to have an opinion even though they don't even know one's background and/or religion. And, I don't think it is possible to live in a cultural vacuum even if someone wants to.

Oh. And two words. Sami people. One experiences, one knows.

Edit: changed a link because I noticed it is a Messianic blog, don't want to promote them. My apologies.

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Ralar

Askenaz is Jews who have a decent from Europe. Sabra (tzabur) is Jews who have a decent from Palestine. So you cant be both unless you have one parent of each.

My understanding is sabra are Jews who were born in Israel, not necessarily descended from Jews whose anscestors came from Palestine. I have Israeli cousins who consider themselves sabras, even though their grandparents or great-grandparents emigrated from Eastern Europe. As I understand it, they are Ashkenazi sabras, as opposed to Sephardic sabras.

BTW, I just unfollowed the goyniff Tumblr. Their premise is pretty stupid. I agree with the poster upthread who abhors "messianic Judaism," but doesn't have a problem with most of the rest that they are discussing.

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