Elizabeth Smart: Abstinence Harms Rape Victims

[GenerationCedarchip]

This is absolutely true in mainstream culture, and is definitely infuriating. In my own fundie-lite experience, though, men were made to feel just as guilty as women. I've seen grown men cry because they felt so guilty over kissing a woman before they met their wife. The teaching on purity are harming a lot of people, men included.

Yes, very true. In fundie land, there's this bizarre push to go from zero to full-on wedding night intercourse and we talk about that a lot, but everything you deal with before marriage is really damaging. Men are totally shamed about noticing women for being attractive, being turned on by anything, wanting to hold hands or kiss, etc... I think women come in for more social ostracism from others(particularly related to dress) than the men do, but the pressure is still there.

[tuckerphez]

Call me cruel, but am I the only one hoping that Elizabeth Smart's teacher sees this and feels really guilty?

[longskirtlotsakids]

Yes, very true. In fundie land, there's this bizarre push to go from zero to full-on wedding night intercourse and we talk about that a lot, but everythine.

Ya know....good point. I've neved considered how traumatic it must be to go from 0 to 60 in one wedding night. From my public school and Midwestern upbringing, you accelerated sexual exploration over a period of months to years. How harsh it must be to not have the time to process that.

[DistantStar]

I went from about 10 to 60 in one night, but there are some major differences between my experiences and fundie expectations; I had never had abstinence-only inflicted on me, and my lack of experience was due to lack of opportunity not deliberate avoidance. And I was 25, and had been dating the guy for a few weeks, and had been doing some making-out with him, but nothing much else and had gotten on the pill quick when we started dating and I realized hey, maybe I will need these! I hadn't done much else with a previous boyfriend, either. Nor was I married to him, with divorce being an evil sin, so stuck no matter how the sex turned out. And I wasn't ignorant, either, I knew plenty about sex and really really wanted to get some actual experience.

I'm thankful that I didn't marry him; I'm sure I wouldn't still be married if I had. But that wasn't because of the sex. Which did, frankly, somewhat suck the first couple of times. Owie. But it got way better.

The short form: I was READY. In ways I'm sure fundie girls aren't even allowed to contemplate being.

[thebeautyunderneath]

Call me cruel, but am I the only one hoping that Elizabeth Smart's teacher sees this and feels really guilty?

I kinda hope this too. Along with every one of my LDS acquaintances who spout all sorts of chewing gum-esque metaphors.

[DarkAnts]

I don't know if it was because she felt so worthless that she didn't want to go home. I'm pretty sure it had more to do with the fact that her captors threatened her with her and her family's death everyday, if she told anyone or tried to leave. She was brainwashed in that sense, and I'm sure they told her that the police wouldn't help her anyway.

I agree. She talked about how her captors threatened her family. They said that they could kill them all if she did something that was against their wishes. She was put in an impossible position of being forced to submit or risk getting her family killed. She did what she thought she had to do to keep her family safe.

[DarkAnts]

Call me cruel, but am I the only one hoping that Elizabeth Smart's teacher sees this and feels really guilty?

Her teacher would have no choice in the abstinence only education. It was for many years the only form of sex education in public schools. Even if her teacher was against it, they would have lost their jobs by teaching something that went against the districts policy.

I agree with Elizabeth about the harm in abstinence only education. The women was always the one to blame in abstinence only education. It was never said out loud in class but there were many undertones to suggest it. It makes young girls who have been raped feel like they are at fault. In reality, they had no control over the person who raped them.

[crazyforkate]

Her strength is just inspiring, and she is extremely articulate. How awful that she has to deal with crap from others even years down the line.

[treemom]

Wow, they actually talked about human anatomy?!! That is outright liberal compared to what I got. It was at a public school in Utah in 1998. We never talked about actual human anatomy in that class. We were stuck making posters and lists about what to do on dates besides touching each other. My teacher did not say the word sex once in that class. We were told that touching was wrong because it was something people only did when they got married.

I wonder what kind of sex ed Elizabeth Smart got in Salt Lake. Salt Lake is the liberal containment zone. But, there are some conservative areas as well. I wonder if her education was the same as mine or a little more liberal. Either way, I applaud her for speaking out about the dismal failures of abstinence only sex ed.

The mormon church and culture in Utah dont help the situation. I know a girl that got married a few years ago. After she was engaged, the youth bisshop of her church talked to her and her fienace. He talked about how petting and kissing would lead to other physical acts and eventually sex. He said it was a slipery slope to sin so they should avoid intimate physical contact until after they are married.

Anatomy was 5th grade and it was the last time they talked about it. Mostly it is slut shaming and scientifically flawed information. And stupid things like "No one ever died from abstinence"

[Peas n carrots]

Elizabeth Smart is such an incredibly courageous and strong person to talk about this.

5x8ARIxg51I

This is to me textbook example of concern trolling. She doesn't really give a shit about this except to up her ratings and it shows.

[ADoyle90815]

I kinda hope this too. Along with every one of my LDS acquaintances who spout all sorts of chewing gum-esque metaphors.

It's things like this that make me glad that my niece isn't being raised in a church like that.

[Fargood]

I kinda hope this too. Along with every one of my LDS acquaintances who spout all sorts of chewing gum-esque metaphors.

I was raised LDS. When I was a teenager, one of the young women (daughter of the Ward President. Gasp!) found herself pregnant at 16. Holy shitballs, the church started laying on the abstinence message in way that was almost obsessive. All the young women were invited to retreats and there was a lot of "don't even touch each other" types of messaging. I remember they gave us these framed plaques that said, "Purity is Power," and we were supposed to hang them in a placed that would remind us to adhere to the straight and narrow. You know, like above our bed. We also had these "purity necklaces" and baby bonnets for our future children. Lots o' slutshaming.

The implicit message is, "once you're not a virgin, you have no power and nobody wants you, other than the man who married you and that's only if you pop out lots of healthy Mormon babies."