Elizabeth Smart: Abstinence Harms Rape Victims

[SPHASH]

NG was just gross in that clip. So saccharinely sweet, condescending, butter couldn't melt, I'm just a good old southern girl, hear my accent get even more pronounced, freaking smarmy. I mean, she typically is that or super bitchy aggressive but this was the worst I've seen here. I wanted to slap her just for that.

Rachel Maddow would have been a much better option. She supports women's rights.

[SPHASH]

Rachel Maddow would have been a much better interviewer. She supports women's rights. She really ripped Sarah Palin over her charging victims for their rape kits

[KelliBama]

Both Elizabeth Smart and Jaycee Dugard have handled themselves with admirable grace after their horrendous ordeals. All I can say is wow after reading this.

They are so inspirational. Dugard's memior was so raw and heartbreaking.

[moreorlessnu]

Elizabeth Smart is amazing. It's wonderful to see she has such a healthy perspective on something so awful.

[longskirtlotsakids]

No. It mostly was how your virginity is a gift to your spouse.

Public school, peeps, public school. It is very WTF to me.

If it ever gets like that here, I'm starting up my own safe sex for teenagers class, paid privately. Ill sell out of seats the first semester.

[snuggles911]

I'm glad Elizabeth has the courage to speak about this. I grew up with the same belief system. At one "purity" retreat, the leader took the wrapper off a candy bar and licked it and then asked if anyone wanted it. When no one raised their hand she told us that if we had premarital sex we'd be like that candy bar. Essentially, we'd have no value and no Christian man worth his salt would want us.

[oil]

I'm glad Elizabeth has the courage to speak about this. I grew up with the same belief system. At one "purity" retreat, the leader took the wrapper off a candy bar and licked it and then asked if anyone wanted it. When no one raised their hand she told us that if we had premarital sex we'd be like that candy bar. Essentially, we'd have no value and no Christian man worth his salt would want us.

What was the teaching on a second marriage? If a widow marrys again is she old licked gum, too? These women need to revolt. In their hearts they must have instinct from nature that this idea is a shit.

[Rachel333]

I've heard those arguments but they really don't make sense. If I accidentally spill a glass a wine on a carpet vs actively trying to make a stain, the results are the same. It's still a blob on my carpet.

It's because they view virginity as spiritual, not physical. At least when I was growing up, it was very clear that rape didn't damage your purity (though I'm sure those messages about purity still really hurt rape victims, not to mention that those who chose to have sex don't need to feel worthless either). For what it's worth, the guys got to feel just as guilty, too; it wasn't just aimed at the girls.

I am so impressed with her for saying this. I just hope people listen.

[lilah]

OMG

Elizabeth Smart is such an incredibly courageous and strong person to talk about this.

5x8ARIxg51I

[Rowan]

This article is incredibly timely after what is all over the news about what happened today in my city....

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05 ... ecade?lite

(not breaking link as it is from a major news source)

I hope these three women are able to recover and deal with this as well as Elizabeth appears to have done.

[DarkAnts]

No. It mostly was how your virginity is a gift to your spouse.

Public school, peeps, public school. It is very WTF to me.

Wow, they actually talked about human anatomy?!! That is outright liberal compared to what I got. It was at a public school in Utah in 1998. We never talked about actual human anatomy in that class. We were stuck making posters and lists about what to do on dates besides touching each other. My teacher did not say the word sex once in that class. We were told that touching was wrong because it was something people only did when they got married.

I wonder what kind of sex ed Elizabeth Smart got in Salt Lake. Salt Lake is the liberal containment zone. But, there are some conservative areas as well. I wonder if her education was the same as mine or a little more liberal. Either way, I applaud her for speaking out about the dismal failures of abstinence only sex ed.

The mormon church and culture in Utah dont help the situation. I know a girl that got married a few years ago. After she was engaged, the youth bisshop of her church talked to her and her fienace. He talked about how petting and kissing would lead to other physical acts and eventually sex. He said it was a slipery slope to sin so they should avoid intimate physical contact until after they are married.

[fundyfunland]

Elizabeth Smart is such an amazing woman! She's so resilient and I think that's what helped her not only get past this horrifying nightmare, but actually thrive and take meaning from it. I'm proud of her for all the work she's done for victims, of being able to critically evaluate the teachings of her faith.

I remember reading a blog a few years back from a catholic woman who essentially called Elizabeth a slut for "allowing" them to rape her, and if she truly believed in God, she would've fought until her death to save her virginity. I wish I could find that blog again. It was so sickening!

I hope her experience has not caused any problems in her new marriage though. I really hope she's living a happy and fulfilling life.

[Stephanie66]

It was my understanding (which could, of course, be wrong) that Elizabeth did get counseling outside of the Mormon Church.

I can only imagine how heartbreaking it would have been to hear that your child, who was kidnapped and raped, felt so worthless that she didn't want to go home and felt trapped. And you taught her to feel like this, however unintentionally. I tear up just thinking about it.

I knew Elizabeth was going to be just fine when she told off Nancy Grace.

Didn't she get married last year?

[Lillybee]

Nancy Grace is a horrible person. I was watching her during the period that Elizabeth was gone. At one time she came very close to accusing Elizabeth's uncle for the kidnapping. It must have been terrible for the family.

[GodsKnickers]

Stephanie - yes, she and her husband Matthew were married in Feb 2012.

[RosyDaisy]

About the purity thing. It infuriates me that men are never perceived that way. A man can stick his dick in any woman and get high-fives , but woman is supposed to remain a virgin until marriage and aren't supposed to even question where her husband's dick has been before her? One of the worst if not the worst double standard I know of. :snooty:

[2xx1xy1JD]

That's both courageous and heart-breaking to read.

I truly hate the whole idea of focusing on sexual status, as opposed to behavior. Wanna talk about making good decisions and treating partners with respect? Go for it. Treating women like objects, focusing solely on whether someone has rendered them impure/used up/soiled, etc., which can apparently happen after only one sexual experience, consensual or not, is simply gross, disgusting and dehumanizing.

[Patsy]

Elizabeth Smart awes me.

[fundyfunland]

I can only imagine how heartbreaking it would have been to hear that your child, who was kidnapped and raped, felt so worthless that she didn't want to go home and felt trapped. And you taught her to feel like this, however unintentionally. I tear up just thinking about it.

I don't know if it was because she felt so worthless that she didn't want to go home. I'm pretty sure it had more to do with the fact that her captors threatened her with her and her family's death everyday, if she told anyone or tried to leave. She was brainwashed in that sense, and I'm sure they told her that the police wouldn't help her anyway.

[Rachel333]

About the purity thing. It infuriates me that men are never perceived that way. A man can stick his dick in any woman and get high-fives , but woman is supposed to remain a virgin until marriage and aren't supposed to even question where her husband's dick has been before her? One of the worst if not the worst double standard I know of. :snooty:

This is absolutely true in mainstream culture, and is definitely infuriating. In my own fundie-lite experience, though, men were made to feel just as guilty as women. I've seen grown men cry because they felt so guilty over kissing a woman before they met their wife. The teaching on purity are harming a lot of people, men included.

[Rainytown]

The eye expression before she got fed up was priceless. It was like WTH is with this chick?

It was obvious that Nancy Grace was about to go all in on "how could you waste those people's time like you did?" When Elizabeth told her she did not want to discuss her captivity, the saccharine and rope-a-dope got REALLY strong. "How did you feel about wearing a burka," for instance.

It's astounding Nancy Grace thought she was going there and would get away with it.

[GolightlyGrrl]

It should be common sense that referring to someone who isn't a virgin as being worthless and nasty is a pretty despicable thing to do. Some of these analogies use the most disgusting images that they can to make it sound as if a woman's worth is in her vagina not her brain or sense of compassion

I've noticed that the women who claim a woman's sole worth is her hymenated-vagina usually have no brains or no sense of compassion. Exhibit number one: Sunshine Mary.

[louisa05]

This is absolutely true in mainstream culture, and is definitely infuriating. In my own fundie-lite experience, though, men were made to feel just as guilty as women. I've seen grown men cry because they felt so guilty over kissing a woman before they met their wife. The teaching on purity are harming a lot of people, men included.

Yep. And they are made to feel like the worst of sinners for noticing that a woman they are not married to is attractive (I've heard that teaching include girlfriends and fiances because if you are sexually attracted to any woman who is not your wife, you are sinning). They are brow beaten about masturbation (and that is all for boys as fundies assume women don't have the desire to do that). And they are taught that any harmless affection with someone of the opposite sex is a way of cheating on wives they have yet to meet. Fundy purity culture provides equal opportunity guilt.

[lipstickgoalie]

I mentioned this to my best friend today. She is an English Prof who teaches occasional classes Women's and Gender Studies. We have killed hours bitching about abstinence only education but we both had to admit that we never thought about this particular angle. (Further hurting victims of sexual assault by implying that they failed at abstinence.)

Are we the only two how didn't see this until it was pointed out by Elizabeth Smart?

And props to her. Do you think she will receive any LDS backlash because of her statement?

[NurseNell]

Nancy Grace was so patronizing to Elizabeth, calling her dear and referring to as just a little girl. No, she was 14, not a little girl. Elizabeth did very well handling her.