Jeffs recorded sex with his child wives - what an asshole

[apple1]

Thank Goodness, he was convicted, I hope that he will no longer be able to use the phone. On a few shows like Dr. Drew people are saying that the moms of these very young girls should face the courts. I don't know if that is going too far because the moms are also brainwashed but perhaps they should be made an example.

There is some truth to the bolded. But- truly it is normal maternal instinct to protect one's own child. While I know there are those (probably many of those) who fail to do this, I- a mother of 2, grandmother of 1- cannot understand and never will be able to understand such failure, even among the "brainwashed".

Not sure whether or not I think the legal system should take action against the mothers. However, if a mom leaves her child alone in an apartment while going to buy crack, the legal system takes action against her. She may be "brainwashed" too. There ARE laws about minimum required care of one's children.

I'm interested to hear what FJ people think about this.

[VodouDoll]

I say throw the book at them. It's not that I'm unsympathetic to the fact that they're brainwashed and in a cult. But if you're an adult, and a parent, there are certain minimum standards of care. Being a cult member is not an excuse for allowing and/or actively participating in physical, mental, emotional, and sexual child abuse. They should be punished accordingly.

[Patsy]

I have a great deal of sympathy for the women, BUT... you just have to draw lines for some things. Like, a seventeen-year-old foster kid with ongoing issues from drugs in utero is a kid who needs help, and once they turn 18, the help should continue... but that's also the point where you go "Yes, life has been harder for you and it is harder for you, but you need to act like a decent human being. Not up for negotiation." It's really hard for these women to seek help (above and beyond women who've undergone 'normal' abuse), but if they have any ability to access it, and they havne't, there has to come a point where you just say "You're an adult, period, line is drawn, you're culpable". I know it sounds really harsh - and it IS - but I think you do just have to draw that line.

[Deleted03]

They were in a cult, but underage rape or sex is just illegal. The judge can take into account the cult situation and have less prison time and ensure that those women get professional help to undo the brainwashing.

Law is law, no matter if you're in a cult of not. I think not prosecuting them would be very unfair and could possibly lead to more abuse. I am sure some of those women totally know what they were doing ( I don'T believe there is a mother instinct by the way or else there would not be so much child abuse; you're either a good person or a bad person, you may struggle at making the right choices but being a mom does not spare you from putting your kids in harm's way).

[doggie]

Ya gotta love him. he wants to represent himself but he also wants to take his toys and go sulking home because someone may not make his beliefs look good. he really thinks he is going to be ok with this it is not a big deal. he thinks he can do what he wants. Well the judge took care of that little silliness.

Polygamist leader walks out of sentencing hearing

PAUL J. WEBER and WILL WEISSERT

Published: Aug 5, 2011 6:01 PM

SAN ANGELO, Texas (AP) - A polygamist sect leader convicted of child sexual assault walked out of his sentencing hearing in protest Friday, after reading a statement he claimed was from God. The statement promised a "whirlwind of judgment" on the world if God's "humble servant" wasn't set free.

Warren Jeffs, 55, represented himself during an eight-day trial that ended with his conviction on two counts of sexual assault. The same jury must now decide his punishment - which could be up to 119 years to life in prison.

But before the punishment phase began and jurors had even been brought back into court Friday, Jeffs said, "I request the full removal of myself as an objection to all that has been presented."

He asked to keep serving as his own attorney, but state District Judge Barbara Walther said he couldn't leave and continue to represent himself at the same time. Instead, she ordered two lawyers who had been Jeffs' standby counsel, Deric Walpole and Emily Munoz Detoto, to represent him.

"Mr. Jeffs, I know this is difficult for you to understand, but you do not have control over these proceedings," Walther said. Jeffs often stands in court and waits up to a full minute before speaking. He slowly and deliberately began responding, saying "I am . . .," but Walther ordered a recess.

Jeffs never returned to court, and the proceedings continued without him. Walther ordered jurors back to court Saturday to continue hearing testimony but indicated it still may be several days before the case will be handed back to them to decide the punishment.

Walpole said he didn't know if Jeffs would be present in the courtroom Saturday. Walpole wouldn't say whether he planned on calling any witnesses, but told jurors to keep in mind that Jeffs was raised in a strict, fundamentalist community that hasn't changed in centuries.

"He's a product of his environment," Walpole said.

Jeffs is the ecclesiastical head of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which believes polygamy brings exaltation in heaven. The more than 10,000 FLDS members nationwide see Jeffs as a prophet who is God's spokesman on Earth.

Jeffs had asked to be taken back to jail, but Walther said that would make it too difficult for his lawyers to communicate with him. Instead, he was placed in a room near the court and will be allowed to return to the hearing whenever he chooses. The judge said Jeffs won't be able to dismiss his attorneys again and go back to defending himself, however.

He burned through a slate of seven high-powered attorneys, including Walpole and Detoto, in the six months before he decided to represent himself, and Walther said he did so in an effort to manipulate the court and stall the case against him.

Prosecutors' strategy during sentencing involves showing jurors evidence of Jeffs committing a slew of alleged crimes not mentioned during his trial.

For starters, Jeffs had 78 wives along with his legal spouse, and 24 of them were under age 17, said Eric Nichols, lead prosecutor for the Texas attorney general's office, which is handling the case. Nichols also said he would show that Jeffs committed six other sexual assaults and either witnessed or performed more than 500 polygamist marriages, as well as 67 other sect marriages involving underage girls.

Jeffs spent years evading arrest - crisscrossing the country as a fugitive who eventually made the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list before his capture in 2006, Nichols said, and he excommunicated 60 church members he saw as a threat to his leadership, breaking up 300 families while stripping them of property and "reassigning" wives and children.

All of that is separate from the assaults on two girls, ages 12 and 15, that Jeffs was convicted of Thursday, after jurors deliberated for 3½ hours. Prosecutors used DNA evidence to show Jeffs fathered a child with the older victim and played an audio recording of what they said was him sexually assaulting the younger one. They played other tapes in which Jeffs was heard instructing as many as a dozen of his young wives on how to please him sexually - and thus, he told them, please God.

After Jeffs left the courtroom Friday, Nichols gave an opening statement, saying Jeffs was guilty of "a breathtaking quantity of criminal activity" as head of the FLDS.

"The defendant abused not only his position, but those religious views you've heard about as a means of satisfying his own personal greed, desires and appetites," Nichols said.

Walpole responded by saying Jeffs was raised in the church and couldn't betray his own religious tenets. Jeffs took over leadership of the FLDS from his father.

"He would rather go to prison than disagree with those beliefs," Walpole said. "He'd rather make a complete mess of this case."

He later told jurors, "you've shown you can be tough. Now it's time to show you can be fair."

[emmiedahl]

Warren Jeffs with one of his brides.

How old might she be? I would say nine; maybe an underdeveloped and small 12 year old? What decent man would be attracted to this little girl?

Did you know he outlaws toys? All of them, even wooden blocks.

[nutella addict]

Where's that barf bag now?

This creature always makes me feel ill, but sex with a 12-year-old and telling them how to shave in order to look even younger...

[Cerulean Blue]

The girl in the photos is the 12 year-old he was convicted of raping.

Evidently at least 3 of his wives were PRESENT (CAN you imagine???!!!) during this horrirfic event, holding or tying the poor child down. I definitely believe they should be prosecuted as accessories to rape. Yes, they have been indoctrinated by the cult from birth, but ignorance of the law is no excuse. Plenty of other women have been able to comprehend that such abuse is WRONG and had the courage to get out. If these states start prosecuting the women, I think that the system will finally start to break wide open.

[Witsec1]

The girl in the photos is the 12 year-old he was convicted of raping.

Evidently at least 3 of his wives were PRESENT (CAN you imagine???!!!) during this horrirfic event, holding or tying the poor child down. I definitely believe they should be prosecuted as accessories to rape. Yes, they have been indoctrinated by the cult from birth, but ignorance of the law is no excuse. Plenty of other women have been able to comprehend that such abuse is WRONG and had the courage to get out. If these states start prosecuting the women, I think that the system will finally start to break wide open.

If it was soldiers aiding their commanding officer in the rape of a 12 year old, "just following orders" is not regarded as a valid defense in a war crimes trial. And think how much indoctrination and pressure there is on soldiers to obey a commanding officer.

ETA: welcome, Cerulean! I'm robertposteschild from the other forum.

[SamuraiKatz]

I think every adult present when that tape was made should be prosecuted. The 12 year old was "married" to Jeffs by her own father. The wives or other women who aided and abetted or stood by and did nothing while this poor child was raped in the name of some god are as responsible as Warren Jeffs is. If other tapes and records exist those should be used to bring charges against others. FLDS is rotten to the core.

[Alecto]

Did they say how many of the wives present when that tape was made were of age? I would think if the wives were not of age, there would be a lot more legal grey area about the whole thing.

[doggie]

the whole thing is so crazy to think you can do anything you want because you believe in it.

[thoughtful]

Merrianne is one of Merril Jessop's children -- Jeffs married several of them.

Reading Carolyn Jessop's Escape, about being one of Merril's wives, can give you some background on the insanity. Not that it can give you any insight -- the whole way of life makes no sense to me.

[doggie]

Witnesses: Polygamist leader ruled with heavy hand

PAUL J. WEBER

Published: Aug 6, 2011 6:11 PM

SAN ANGELO, Texas (AP) - Convicted polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs ruled with a heavy and abusive hand, several former followers testified Saturday, recounting how the man they once revered as a prophet banned parades, Sports Illustrated magazine and even the color red upon rising to power.

The second day of Jeffs' sentencing hearing later ended with a woman, now 28, tearfully alleging that Jeffs also sexually abused her as a young girl. Charges were never filed in that alleged incident. Three jurors cried during the woman's testimony, and state District Judge Barbara Walthers adjourned court until Monday.

The same jury convicted Jeffs on Thursday on charges of sexually assaulting two underage girls he had taken as brides in Texas. He faces up to life in prison, and jurors are likely to decide his punishment early next week.

For the second straight day, Jeffs wasn't in court. He walked out in protest Friday and has continued boycotting the proceedings, choosing instead to remain in another room of the courthouse.

Jeffs, 55, is the ecclesiastical head of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which believes polygamy brings exaltation in heaven. More than 10,000 followers consider him God's spokesman on Earth.

One of them was Ezra Draper, who testified that FLDS men began taking brides younger and younger after Jeffs took over the polygamous group in 2002.

"You could see which girls were with which fellas. It would repeat itself week after week," said Draper, who left the church in 2003. "Then they were with child."

Prosecutors have tried showing in the sentencing phase that Jeffs ruled the FLDS with a far heavier and crueler hand than his father, who Jeffs succeeded. Draper testified that while Rulon Jeffs allowed fun activities such as parades and dances, his son abruptly put a stop to it in the community.

Draper said Jeffs threw out copies of Sports Illustrated and Car and Driver found in the boys' bedrooms. Books that featured talking animals were banned because Jeffs considered it teaching lies. Even the color red became prohibited, Draper said.

Jeffs also kept meticulous records - as jurors found out during the conviction phase of the trial. One of the most uncomfortable pieces of evidence so far has been an audiotape of what prosecutors said was Jeffs sexually assaulting one of his victims when she was 12.

On Saturday, prosecutors again dipped into a trove of Jeffs' records seized from a 2008 police raid on a remote FLDS ranch in West Texas. This time it was lengthy instructions on building a bed in the all-white, top-floor room in the ranch's temple. The instructions allegedly written by Jeffs were exact: 5-inch thick table legs, and padded sides on the bed while "the Lord does his work with me."

Jurors were shown the typed notes shortly after a nephew of Jeffs testified that his uncle sodomized him when he was 5 years old. Brent Jeffs, now 28, said Warren Jeffs told him during the alleged assault that "this is God's work." Jeffs was never charged with sexually assaulting his nephew.

The Associated Press typically does not name alleged sexual assault victims, but Brent Jeffs has went public with his allegations including filing a civil lawsuit against his uncle in 2003. Brent Jeffs said the suit was settled in a deal that included him getting some land.

During the trial, prosecutors presented evidence that Jeffs fathered a child with one victim when she was 15.

Jeffs represented himself during the trial, routinely interrupting the proceedings and choosing to stand silently in front of jurors for nearly a half-hour during his closing arguments. His absence from the sentencing phase since Friday made for a more typical trial atmosphere.

Walther ordered Jeffs' stand-by counsel to represent him. But having been sidelined by Jeffs for the last two weeks, attorney Deric Walpole struggled Saturday to keep up with witnesses and evidence, some of which he was seeing for the first time.

At one point Saturday, Walpole jumped from his chair to object while Draper testified. He asked Walther to have the jury leave the courtroom.

"I have no idea what that man is getting ready to say," Walpole said. His objection was overturned.

Jeffs burned through a slate of seven high-powered attorneys, including Walpole, in the six months before he decided to represent himself. Prosecutors have accused Jeffs of trying to stall the case against him.

Walpole declined to say whether he'll call witnesses during the sentencing phase. He has indicated that his plea for leniency will focus on Jeffs being a product of his environment and a culture that hasn't changed for centuries.