19 Kids and Counting 2013 - The Duggars do Part 3

[crassy]

I am going into the military and I would be PISSED if one of these fuckers even insinuated that they did something ~*similar*~. Boot camp/officer training is not all knots, endurance hikes, and praying to god. The breakdown for my BMQ is only something like 25% physical, the rest of it is in class learning strategy etc. I imagine none of these dickheads learned to be productive members of society or how to actually lead anyone other than their fellow kool-aid drinkers.

[MrsYoungie]

There were two Duggars I felt kind of bad for in this episode.

Josh: No Phys Ed ever in his life leaving him so unfit that he had no idea how to do a sit up, a chin up or a sit up, let alone have the coordination to do a jumping jack. I was kind of embarrassed for him.

Joseph: When they flew him to his "basic training" - that was all they did. Here you are on the tarmac, now we're leaving you here with too many bags while we fly home. Why did he have so many bags? Why were his shoes loose? They weren't even laces tied so he could drape them around his neck. What happened to how the Duggars really know how to pack for a trip? I thought real soldiers (which he is not) travel with a single duffle bag. And then he had to hike alone to camp? What crap. Maybe this is how they think parents treat kids that they force to go off to college.

[Becket70]

I see the ratings are tanking on this show. It's been two weeks in a row that they haven't even cracked the top 100. What will it take for TLC to cancel it? Of course, we're talking TLC here, the network that thinks it's a good idea to bring back Breaking Amish.

[pega127]

Has anyone else watched the latest video on DuggarFamilyBlog.com with Jill giving a tour of the girls' bedroom? Check out the first two seconds and there is a framed photo of a young man I couldn't identify. Anyone else notice it???

[GeoBQn]

It's JimBob as a teenager. That's being discussed in another thread.

[pega127]

Sorry; I did scroll down the threads after posting here. Just about everybody agreed it was JB and it's disgusting to have a photo of your father as a teen staring at you. Ick!

[Fun-Dee]

Does anyone here know much about the educational requirements to obtain a pilot's license? In order to get my SCUBA open water certification I had to review some basic physics. Would the Duggars be threatened by such concepts?

You have to go to ground school. I'm not exactly sure what is included, but I know that it involves a lot of math. You have to be able to chart a course and understand wind speed, direction, and basically what makes an airplane fly. You don't have to have any college or even a high school diploma as far as I know, as long as you learn what is taught in ground school. My son is in the middle of getting his license. He has his solo certificate and his hours put in, but needs to complete ground school and take his written test.

As a side note, after you solo they cut the back out of your shirt and hang it on the wall with your name and date of your solo. Very defrauding! At least that's what they do around here. I'm not sure about all flight schools.

[Buzzard]

I see the ratings are tanking on this show. It's been two weeks in a row that they haven't even cracked the top 100. What will it take for TLC to cancel it? Of course, we're talking TLC here, the network that thinks it's a good idea to bring back Breaking Amish.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/0 ... re/179426/

"tanking" is an understatement. They're pretty much non existent!

[freethemall]

Anyone else find it sad that his baby picture wasn't a picture of him alone or just him with Michelle but a family portrait that they zoomed in on him. I don't care how many kids you have there should be at least a handful of picture of them alone.

I don't think this is an issue unique to the Duggars - my husband was the 3rd and said that by the time he came around, they stopped taking as many photos of the baby alone, and he always joked that he must be adopted in not having so many pictures of him. And this is from a very loving family that gave their kids plenty of attention otherwise, trust me. If some families relax on pictures after a third, I'm not surprised that there aren't too many alone of the 7th. I bet there'd barely be any photos of the youngest kids as babies if it weren't for TLC's cameras doing it for them.

Of course, the real bitterness comes in how much photographic attention that 19th "precious addition" got...

[Dandruff]

There were two Duggars I felt kind of bad for in this episode.

Josh: No Phys Ed ever in his life leaving him so unfit that he had no idea how to do a sit up, a chin up or a sit up, let alone have the coordination to do a jumping jack. I was kind of embarrassed for him.

Joseph: When they flew him to his "basic training" - that was all they did. Here you are on the tarmac, now we're leaving you here with too many bags while we fly home. Why did he have so many bags? Why were his shoes loose? They weren't even laces tied so he could drape them around his neck. What happened to how the Duggars really know how to pack for a trip? I thought real soldiers (which he is not) travel with a single duffle bag. And then he had to hike alone to camp? What crap. Maybe this is how they think parents treat kids that they force to go off to college.

The film crew or Jim Bob could have shown Josh how to do those exercises beforehand. It either didn't occur to them or they were OK with him looking the way he did. I felt kind of embarrassed for him too.

Joseph being deposited on the field to walk alone to ALERT seemed completely contrived (I think they were trying for poignant), as did the guy behind the desk asking Joseph for his name. I suspect ALERT, and probably Joseph, wanted no part of the filming but a deal was finally made.

[itaintmebabe]

Joseph being deposited on the field to walk alone to ALERT seemed completely contrived (I think they were trying for poignant), as did the guy behind the desk asking Joseph for his name. I suspect ALERT, and probably Joseph, wanted no part of the filming but a deal was finally made.

To me it looked like they showed the plane taking off, then it looked like the plane started to dip like it was landing before the scene cut to another scene, as if they never filmed the plane *actually* taking off. Then the way they showed Joseph walking to camp, it almost looked like they could've filmed it in the very same field where they filmed the plane take off. It was such a strange, isolated field, like does everyone who go there have to be deposited in that field to get to camp? Wouldn't there be roads and sidewalks to get there? (Not that I would know, LOL!)

I might be delusional as I was coming down with a bad cold that night and doing my best to keep awake despite the sedation of the Alka Seltzer nighttime, but did anyone else notice this?

[AlexIsAwake]

I am going into the military and I would be PISSED if one of these fuckers even insinuated that they did something ~*similar*~. Boot camp/officer training is not all knots, endurance hikes, and praying to god. The breakdown for my BMQ is only something like 25% physical, the rest of it is in class learning strategy etc. I imagine none of these dickheads learned to be productive members of society or how to actually lead anyone other than their fellow kool-aid drinkers.

Just wanted to note that I was reading accounts of boys who had been to ALERT on the homeschooler's anonymous and recovering grace blogs, and in one of the accounts, the young man noted that he had been through actual military boot camp training, and that the physical aspect of training in ALERT was actually worse on him. I believe the point he wanted to make was that ALERT goes far beyond what is necessary to make their trainees competent in survival skills and pushes them to the point of it being abuse. One young man had permanent back injuries as a result, and I'm sure there are many more. He did also mention, however, that in 2006 there were supposedly some reforms made to the program to make it "less hard" on the boys. I just wonder how true this is. I hope it is, for Joseph's sake. I'm afraid this is just more of the same of what we learn from virtually every Gothard training center out there. Once those who have attended begin speaking out, there are numerous stories of abuse. The public would be horrified if they knew what went on.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

The film crew or Jim Bob could have shown Josh how to do those exercises beforehand. It either didn't occur to them or they were OK with him looking the way he did. I felt kind of embarrassed for him too.

It probably didn't occur to the film crew that a twenty-something man couldn't do a simple jumping jack, though. I felt a lot of pity for Josh too. My extremely uncoordinated 7 year-old can do all the basics way better than he can, and that's just sad. And Boob is too immature and competitive to care. On the contrary, I think he rather enjoys when others look like fools, even his children. It's not like the kids' dignity ranks very high in their parenting goals.

[jaynie]

Just wanted to note that I was reading accounts of boys who had been to ALERT on the homeschooler's anonymous and recovering grace blogs, and in one of the accounts, the young man noted that he had been through actual military boot camp training, and that the physical aspect of training in ALERT was actually worse on him. I believe the point he wanted to make was that ALERT goes far beyond what is necessary to make their trainees competent in survival skills and pushes them to the point of it being abuse. One young man had permanent back injuries as a result, and I'm sure there are many more. He did also mention, however, that in 2006 there were supposedly some reforms made to the program to make it "less hard" on the boys. I just wonder how true this is. I hope it is, for Joseph's sake. I'm afraid this is just more of the same of what we learn from virtually every Gothard training center out there. Once those who have attended begin speaking out, there are numerous stories of abuse. The public would be horrified if they knew what went on.

Pushing people to/beyond their physical limits like that is an extremely powerful brainwashing tactic (if you use it as such). Once you break people it's fairly easy to rebuild them "in your image" so to speak. For ATI kids who have never known life outside the compound, it wouldn't take much to overwrite whatever hint of an individual identity they had left and assimilate them. It's not abuse for sadistic pleasure; it's abuse with and end goal. It's Abuse for (their horrifying version of) Jesus.

The worst part is, I can reasonably believe that Joseph might actually have wanted to do this, as opposed to it being "reprogramming" at the command of JB (although if Josiah goes in a few years my credulity will be seriously strained). I can reasonably believe the Duggar girls volunteer for Journey to the Heart. It's like the grossness of Gothard's interactions with young women; anyone with any knowledge about sexual harassment can see he's 100% in the wrong, but they're always *just* subtle enough to be plausibly denied, to say that people crying harassment are over-reacting to a "nice old man". JttH is *just* enough like a summer camp for average people to miss the warning signs, for it to seem like a fun girl's get-together. ALERT is *just* enough like military bootcamp to make it sound like the people crying abuse are just weak or oversensitive (and the number of people who have done both ALERT and real military bootcamp AND left Gothardism is probably small enough for their stories to fly under the radar). So the people on the outside who are in the best position to make a difference (generally, extended family, etc) don't see any reason to be concerned.

[jaynie]

. On the contrary, I think he rather enjoys when others look like fools, even his children. It's not like the kids' dignity ranks very high in their parenting goals.

I think he likes it best when his own children look like fools. Look at how he makes pop-culture jokes that none of them could possibly understand. I mentioned a theory once before that he never quite got over being a dork in high-school, and his power over his children gives him the opportunity to be the cool kid for once. Josh not knowing basic phys ed puts JB in the position of the stereotypical jock, which I'm guessing he was NOT as a teenager.

I mean the whole show is like "look at my hot cheerleader wife! Look how fertile I am! Look at all of the wonderful opportunities I get that YOU don't just because I'm on television and therefore popular. Look at my posse of clueless underlings who hang on to my every word!" So I don't think it's surprising that he treats his sons like competition for popularity, and his girls like...a jealous boyfriend. He never outgrew that mindset.

[ILoveJellybeans]

That sounds scarily accurate :o

[snarkyjan]

I think he likes it best when his own children look like fools. Look at how he makes pop-culture jokes that none of them could possibly understand. I mentioned a theory once before that he never quite got over being a dork in high-school, and his power over his children gives him the opportunity to be the cool kid for once. Josh not knowing basic phys ed puts JB in the position of the stereotypical jock, which I'm guessing he was NOT as a teenager.

I mean the whole show is like "look at my hot cheerleader wife! Look how fertile I am! Look at all of the wonderful opportunities I get that YOU don't just because I'm on television and therefore popular. Look at my posse of clueless underlings who hang on to my every word!" So I don't think it's surprising that he treats his sons like competition for popularity, and his girls like...a jealous boyfriend. He never outgrew that mindset.

I've always regarded the sheer size of his family as Boob's "neener-neener" to all the popular boys that he couldn't compete with for girls back in high school.

And OF COURSE he doesn't want any of his kids to look good, even in their own best interest. It's vital to Boob's mental health that they never be able to surpass him.

[changemanagement]

Thanks for the recap. The show always puts me to sleep now. Always.

[alchemy]

In a family like the Duggars what happens if the headship were to pass away? Who does the authority pass to next? In the case of Dimbulb, who hasn't fostered leadership type behaviors or thinking in any of his sons, and a female taking the reins would be unthinkable, would they be like a rudderless ship if he was suddenly gone?

[Salamander]

I think he likes it best when his own children look like fools. Look at how he makes pop-culture jokes that none of them could possibly understand. I mentioned a theory once before that he never quite got over being a dork in high-school, and his power over his children gives him the opportunity to be the cool kid for once. Josh not knowing basic phys ed puts JB in the position of the stereotypical jock, which I'm guessing he was NOT as a teenager.

I mean the whole show is like "look at my hot cheerleader wife! Look how fertile I am! Look at all of the wonderful opportunities I get that YOU don't just because I'm on television and therefore popular. Look at my posse of clueless underlings who hang on to my every word!" So I don't think it's surprising that he treats his sons like competition for popularity, and his girls like...a jealous boyfriend. He never outgrew that mindset.

I completely agree with what you've said here.

[gustava]

When Joshie committed "sin in the camp," did he go to ALERT? Remember, he had his hair cut military style?

[tabitha2]

they all go to alert anyway as all the boys are signed up at age 8;whatever the hell the sin in the camp thing was we probably will never know but I am pretty sure the camp attendance was not related.

[miffy]

He seems to have brainwashed Michelle into feeling ashamed about having kissed boys and worn defrauding clothing.

I agree 100% that he never got over being a dork in school. He managed to nab a hot cheerleader using Jesus and he has kept going from there.

[FloraDoraDolly]

He seems to have brainwashed Michelle into feeling ashamed about having kissed boys and worn defrauding clothing.

I agree 100% that he never got over being a dork in school. He managed to nab a hot cheerleader using Jesus and he has kept going from there.

Jim Bob never got over his childhood poverty, either. I think he is very proud of himself for being able to "support" a supersized family when his dad couldn't take care of a wife and only two kids. Lots of issues between Jim Bob and his dad, I think.

[Dandruff]

AlexisAwake wrote:

Just wanted to note that I was reading accounts of boys who had been to ALERT on the homeschooler's anonymous and recovering grace blogs, and in one of the accounts, the young man noted that he had been through actual military boot camp training, and that the physical aspect of training in ALERT was actually worse on him. I believe the point he wanted to make was that ALERT goes far beyond what is necessary to make their trainees competent in survival skills and pushes them to the point of it being abuse. One young man had permanent back injuries as a result, and I'm sure there are many more. He did also mention, however, that in 2006 there were supposedly some reforms made to the program to make it "less hard" on the boys. I just wonder how true this is. I hope it is, for Joseph's sake. I'm afraid this is just more of the same of what we learn from virtually every Gothard training center out there. Once those who have attended begin speaking out, there are numerous stories of abuse. The public would be horrified if they knew what went on.

I don't know what does and doesn't go on at ALERT, but I'm sure they didn't want Joseph seriously injured or discouraged by the experience. Wouldn't look good. I'd guess it was as hard as they could make it without crossing any lines.