Too Harsh on the Duggars?

[Pixie1000]

I have been lurking around the forum and haven't really posted before, because I'm definitely not as knowledgeable about the Duggars as everyone else.

 

Here's what bothers me. I'm an atheist, after growing up a Southern Baptist (my grandfather was a preacher) and I deconverted several years ago after researching extensively.

 

The thing is, I like the Duggars. I think they are a genuinely caring family and I would probably reconvert to Christianity if I had that sort of stability behind me. Sure, I've read quite a few posts about how Josh is "smug", David Waller is gay, Anna and Michelle are brainwashed,.....ad infinitum, but when I watch the shows, it seems to me that everyone is happy. Why is there such a effort to tear them apart, when it seems to me that they are (a) supporting themselves without government assistance and (b) why would youwant to escape if you have that sort of familial connection?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would love to have the Duggars as neighbors!

[GodsKnickers]

Ok?

[Pixie1000]

Ok?

OK.... what? I'm not sure what you are asking.

[longskirts]

I would not want to be a Duggar but I agree that some of the talk of who is smug or gay or whatever is reading too much into it.

My main objection to them is all the restrictions they place on their kids in terms of education and career. That limits their options for the rest of their lives.

[GeoBQn]

In no particular order . . .

1. The way they completely limit their children's education and job possibilities in a way that sets them up for failure in life.

2. Their support for a movement that wants to turn America into a theocracy.

3. The way they exploit the Holocaust by claiming that abortion is exactly the same in their pro-life projects.

4. The way they publicly supported Todd Akin, AKA the man who thinks that women's vaginas have magical powers to reject a rapist's sperm.

5. The way that all of their pets have mysteriously disappeared over the years.

6. The way that they focus all of their political action on trying to take away my right to make medical decisions concerning my body.

7. The way they disrespect other cultures, nay, anything that they don't understand.

8. The way they support blanket training for children and have endorsed the Pearls.

I'd come up with more, but I am in the middle of eating dinner.

[Buzzard]

I have been lurking around the forum and haven't really posted before, because I'm definitely not as knowledgeable about the Duggars as everyone else.

Here's what bothers me. I'm an atheist, after growing up a Southern Baptist (my grandfather was a preacher) and I deconverted several years ago after researching extensively.

The thing is, I like the Duggars. I think they are a genuinely caring family and I would probably reconvert to Christianity if I had that sort of stability behind me. Sure, I've read quite a few posts about how Josh is "smug", David Waller is gay, Anna and Michelle are brainwashed,.....ad infinitum, but when I watch the shows, it seems to me that everyone is happy. Why is there such a effort to tear them apart, when it seems to me that they are (a) supporting themselves without government assistance and (b) why would youwant to escape if you have that sort of familial connection?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would love to have the Duggars as neighbors! :)

Hey, to each his own. Some people are into golden showers but thats not really my thing... If you're cool with "stability" being permanently handicapping your children by educating them to a third grade level, forcing your daughters to permanent indentured servitude, and micromanaging the lives of your adult children all while teaching them women are subservient and shit... have fun.

TLC edits the shows. People are trained to smile at cameras. They belong to a cult. Peek behind the curtain, if you still think theyre awesome then good for you.

[Conuly]

Just because they seem happy on TV does not mean they always are happy. Remember, television is edited... and that's even not considering the fact that they appear to share many beliefs with some Christian conservatives that also happen to believe that not being happy is a sin. Nobody can really be happy ALL the time, so the real consequence of that belief is that people become very, very good at faking it (while assuming, often, that nobody else has to fake it like they do.)

Of course, happiness isn't everything. A pig in the mud, as they say, may be much happier than I am, but I still don't want to switch places with it!

[GodsKnickers]

I wasn't asking you anything. It was more of an 'ok, good for you, pin a rose on your nose' kind of thing. But what Buzzard said works too. :lol:

[fundiefun]

Not to mention all the lies they tell such as denying they are quiverfull which means as many kids as God sends you, but deny it. Not so long ago before they became famous it was all over their website but then disappeared but there are screen caps of it. Also if you're okay with beating your kids with plumbing line and using flexible rulers to switch infants then that's okay when kids have been killed under Pearl style discipline. The Duggars used to list Debbi and Michale Pearl's books that they recommended but that has been scrubbed from their website to. The Duggars are nothing short of blatant liars who have sold out to TLC. The Duggars are not what they seem and there are people on here who have encountered them before they became famous or ran in the same circles as them can attest to that.

[Trynn]

There are screen caps of the Duggars claiming they are quiverfull? This is the stuff I was looking for but never found when I came to FJ. If anyone has the links, that'd be GREATLY appreciated.

How about not letting their daughters wear pants? I don't believe for a moment that that's not something they're forced into. There's too many of them, one of them at least would choose differently. As someone who is allergic to skirts, i think this is cruel and unusual punishment in and of itself.

[lilwriter85]

To Pixie1000 start researching Bill Gothard, ATI, ILBP.

[lilwriter85]

There are screen caps of the Duggars claiming they are quiverfull? This is the stuff I was looking for but never found when I came to FJ. If anyone has the links, that'd be GREATLY appreciated.

How about not letting their daughters wear pants? I don't believe for a moment that that's not something they're forced into. There's too many of them, one of them at least would choose differently. As someone who is allergic to skirts, i think this is cruel and unusual punishment in and of itself.

I believe there are screencaps via Wayback Machine that show they had the quiverfull.com link on their site years ago. I have seen the screencaps here or FJ yuku, but I can't remember which exact threads featured the screencaps.

[LeatherCouch]

Well if it's on TV it must be true! I mean, duh...reality TV is real, it's right there in the name. :lol:

[lilwriter85]

On the topic of the Duggars and government assistance, they might not have taken it, but they received handouts via their former church and people from the town years ago. Boob and Mullet admitted to the church handouts in an interview. There is also the speculated but unconfirmed theory/rumor that some of Josie's NICU bills were covered by Medicaid because of her micropreemie birth weight.

[tabitha2]

playing devils advocate,I will say some duggar critics go a little overboard at times when they nitpick. the. hell out of every photo, facial expression, etc and read more than they should into things. even concerning the duggars not every single thing is that meaningful or sinister. some times a tater tot is just a tator tot :lol:

[chaotic life]

Actually, I think the Duggar children are FAR better off then most of their contemporaries, in part because of the public eye upon them. However, for the ability to have more normalacy in their lives, those children sacrifice their right to privacy, the same main problem I have with the Gosselins, that they build their fame upon the public scrutiny of their children.

I actually have NO doubt those children are always happy. I suspect that happy is the only acceptable emotion for them TO have. That doesn't make it a healthy dynamic.

I do know what the Duggars have scrubbed their associations and information to make it more mainstream acceptable over the years as to conceal contraversial ideas they support that would not be so quick to earn them favor with those who fuel their income at this point. They are pro-Ezzo, pro-Pearl, quiverful and deeply enmeshed with Bill Gothard and ATI.

[FreeJosie]

In no particular order . . .

1. The way they completely limit their children's education and job possibilities in a way that sets them up for failure in life.

2. Their support for a movement that wants to turn America into a theocracy.

3. The way they exploit the Holocaust by claiming that abortion is exactly the same in their pro-life projects.

4. The way they publicly supported Todd Akin, AKA the man who thinks that women's vaginas have magical powers to reject a rapist's sperm.

5. The way that all of their pets have mysteriously disappeared over the years.

6. The way that they focus all of their political action on trying to take away my right to make medical decisions concerning my body.

7. The way they disrespect other cultures, nay, anything that they don't understand.

8. The way they support blanket training for children and have endorsed the Pearls.

I'd come up with more, but I am in the middle of eating dinner.

I think that sums it up well! Let's just say that the image that they project on TV is not the reality.

[formergothardite]

Genuinely caring, unless one of the adult children wants to get a full time job, go to a secular college(hell any college), move out, become more liberal make a decision about their life without Jim Bob.

Stability as long as you are, even as an adult, are not making your own life decisions and depending on your father to tell you what to do.

Reality tv, not so real. ATI families, even less real. Do you have any idea how many perfect, happy, loving ATI families I saw trotted out across the conference stage only to find out later that the kids in that family were miserable? Go read Recovery Grace.

[lilwriter85]

I think the Duggars' igorance on certain subjects like overpopulation has really pissed off many people.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

"Oh gee whiz, I'm new here and I think the Duggars are just a-ok! What's your problem, anyhow?" This bullshit, it gets old.

[jaynie]

Yeah, I don't have a problem with the possibility that DW or any of the others are gay, or with Michelle's baby voice (I don't have to listen) or even with the fact that some of them are smug. I have a problem with the fact that the eldest four daughters have been compelled sine before puberty to raise their parents children. I have a problem with the fact that Josh wants to work for the FRC, which is pretty much a hate-group. I have a problem with the way Jana reacted when she had to show ID at the airport for the first time -- as if she had no real understanding that she was an adult now. I have a problem with way that Jana is still crying over a minor childhood squabble that happened years ago because her life is just one long line of pointless sacrifices. I have a problem with the fact that Hannie and Jackson are no longer allowed to play Lone Ranger because their chromosomes don't match (just like Joy and Josiah before them). I have a problem with their curriculum that teaches nonsense in place of science and revisionism in place of history. I have a problem with them comparing abortion to the holocaust. I have a problem with Michelle's advice to use flexible rulers to hit children with when they dare to show curiosity about the world. I have a problem with the religion that has taught nineteen innocent kids that I am evil for my atheism or my socialism or my feminism. I have a problem with that pamphlet Michelle had about wifely duties where everything up to and including your hairstyle is subject to the whims of your headship. I have a problem with JD suggesting Jefferson Davies as a name for #20.

Forgive me if I don't think disliking them is being "too harsh." They wouldn't extend me half the kindness I'm willing to show to them. (Or their kids, at least).

(And they don't always look happy anyway:

http://img508.imageshack.us/slideshow/w ... shot1c.jpg

http://i36.tinypic.com/1533cdz.png

http://i45.tinypic.com/2ij709f.png

(just the three examples I had on hand; there are others.)

Which is fine -- nobody is happy all the time -- but that first link quite clearly shows the lengths they go to to edit unfavorable emotions out of the show. Appearances can be deceiving.)

[ILoveJellybeans]

I dont think we are too harsh on them. They may look happy, but if you look beneath all that you can see a lot of bad things. Happiness is the only emotion they are allowed to show in fundie culture, and even then, theres cracks in it.

The majority of the childcare and housework is done by the kids, particularly their oldest four daughters. This goes beyond just a few chores, the older ones pretty much raise the younger ones. What exactly do Michelle and Jimbob do? Theyre often with eachother while the children follow behind with their buddies, and this got Jackson lost at the airport when he was a toddler. Also when the little kids get injured or upset, they often go straight to their buddies instead of their parents.

The adult kids (from 23 to 19, not including Josh, who is married with kids) are treated like children. Theyre so limited in life. Theyre not allowed to go to a real college or move out. Theyre not allowed to go out alone. Jill is only allowed to be a midwife because Jana goes with her. Shes 21, and not allowed to leave the home by herself. They cant date, instead they have courtship, which is daddy's decision on who his daughters marry. Jinger really wants to move to the city, she made this perfectly clear, but when the episode was shown and people started to talk about it, Michelle stated that she had been mistaken, and instead wanted to live closer to Walmart. Guess who wasnt quoted in this?

The children are often seen in unsafe conditions. We have seen small children drag toys up the stairs, and play on them unsupervised. Here is an image of a two year old crawling unsupervised down the stairs on her stomach. This kind of irresponsibility led to Jordyn getting her head stuck in the railings. We have seen the kids barefoot or wearing flip flops in situations where they could get their feet crushed or step on all kinds of harmful sharp stuff. We have seen them letting small children use power tools when building their house, when there isnt enough adults to supervise them properly.

They exploit their children's illnesses and accidents as well. We have seen Michelle take out her camera when her son ended up in hospital with serious injuries after falling, and she was also smiling. And whos bright idea was it to take Josie around the country exposing her to every germ in existence, when she was tiny and fragile and barely able to breathe on her own. Not a good move, micropreemies get sick easily.

They have some awful opinions, including supporting someone who believes that women who got pregnant from rape werent legitimately raped as you can only get pregnant if you enjoyed it. Josh wants to work for a homophobic hate group. They exploited the holocaust to make an offensive point about abortion. Imagine how awful it would be for a kid who was gay or if one of the girls got raped and became pregnant. Theyd make them feel like the worst people in the world. Theyve also got connections with ATI, which is mentioned in the show. It is an organisation that supports child abuse (it is encouraged and rampant in ATI culture), spreads misinformation (The homeschooling curriculum is pathetic and spreads lies. It actively teaches children to judge other people. It teaches kids that the Earth is 6000 years old, evolution is lies and that dinosaurs and humans lived side by side), Journey to the Heart sounds a lot like brainwashing camp, and the guy who owns the place has been accused of sexually harassing teen/young adult girls multiple times. This is only the worst parts, the majority of what comes from Michelle, Jimbob and Josh is ignorant and offensive.

The kids arent much better. Yeah, theyre usually let off a bit because they havent been taught any better and are still young enough to maybe change, but theyre still badly behaved. The kids are rude when faced with new experiences, and never seem to learn anything from their trips out. Jana looks kinda sad a lot. I think Jill is the only happy one, but she can be smug. Jessa and Jinger come across as rude and immature, and they look pissed off at least half of the time. The massive pile of boys between the age of about 8 and 14 are known as the Howlers for a reason-they run completely wild and we have seen them do loads of stupid things while unsupervised. The little girls look lost. Jordyn is possibly the saddest child I have ever seen, I seriously want to adopt her. Theyre also shockingly delayed compared to other kids their age, and this hasnt been noticed by their parents at all.

Theyre not the happy, perfect family people think. They belong to ATI and seem to uphold all of their terrible views.

[divadivine]

I have a problem with way that Jana is still crying over a minor childhood squabble that happened years ago because her life is just one long line of pointless sacrifices.

I stopped watching a long time ago... what minor childhood squabble is Jana still crying over? Just wondering... thanks!

[August]

infinitum, but when I watch the shows, it seems to me that everyone is happy. Why is there such a effort to tear them apart, when it seems to me that they are (a) supporting themselves without government assistance and (b) why would youwant to escape if you have that sort of familial connection?

They seem happy because they're beaten until they stop crying. "keep sweet" and "JOY", remember.

What's wrong with government assistance? I'm sure the Unabomber wasn't on welfare either.

You might want to escape if you were female and wanted a job, or gay and wanted love, or atheist and wanted not to lie.

[doggie]

but when I watch the shows, it seems to me that everyone is happy. Why is there such a effort to tear them apart, when it seems to me that they are (a) supporting themselves without government assistance and (b) why would youwant to escape if you have that sort of familial connection?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would love to have the Duggars as neighbors! :)

They are actors right? that's an actors job to portray the script. the script is a always happy family. behind the scenes seldom reflect a true actors life.