College By 12 -- Not Sure if they are Fundy

[Foxxit]

Depends on the kids. My family was anti-skipping grades. I had the intelligence to skip all the way to 12th grade when I was in 5th my family said no. I ended up later on doing poorly in school due to being bored thus I stopped doing the repetitive work (yet I would get 100's on all my tests, though my failing might have had to do more with "No Child Left Behind" than anything else) and lacked any type of friends as I found them to be too immature and obnoxious. While other kids were reading the Cat in the Hat, I had already finished Moby Dick, The Last of the Mohicans, and many other higher level reading books. I am not the most intelligent, however I always had critical thinking skills. If holding a child back from skipping grades will cause them more harm than good, why do it. However one must also look at if it will harm the kid more, it is all really dependent on the child.

[julie paradox]

Foxxit: of course, the 12th grade kids would have found you immature and obnoxious too ;-)

(simply because, well, you were eleven)

[rward]

I know it really sounds hard to believe, but unless you've personally dealt with children who are actually exceptionally/profoundly gifted, you just can't understand it. I would have still been disbelieving had I not been experiencing it every day for the last 12 years. Negotiating life with a gifted child is a truly unique situation to experience. Personally, I think it's much easier to deal with my kids with learning disabilities than the gifted one. Frankly, she wears me out! It's a constant barrage of questions and theories and debating, not to mention the insomnia because she just can't shut her brain off at night. And no, we didn't push her to be this way. All of our children have been enriched in the same way. She started talking at 6 months and had full adult conversations by 18 months, was reading chapter books at age 4. My 2nd daughter had the same environment but didn't really start talking until she was 3 and still struggles with chapter books in 4th grade. My son is in 3rd and can't read anything more difficult than Dick and Jane or Green Eggs and Ham by himself.

Ugh. No offense, but the way people act and talk about the "profoundly gifted" causes serious issues. I speak as someone was is "profoundly gifted". I could have gone to college at 12, teachers were pushing for it, but my mom refused. She saw what being pushed forward did to my brother, and that was one grade. Keep in mind, I never did graduate from college and currently work as a legal secretary, and I am still so grateful that my mother refused to put me in college at 12.

I don't care how smart you are, maturity requires age. Experience requires time on the planet. Perspective requires experience. "Profoundly gifted" children are no superheroes. We're just like the rest of you, we just started reading at 18 months. (Also, I couldn't tie my own shoes or write my own name until the 4th grade. I kept getting passed ahead because I was so far advanced in other ways.) That kind of intelligence doesn't qualify us to be doctors at 20. It doesn't excuse us from adolescence and all the confusion that comes with it. And getting special treatment and being constantly petted for being so special? Doesn't exactly make you sympathetic to all the other people around you, which are, you know, all the people you'll be around forever.

I was such a self centered, egotistical little snot because of all the crap that gets said about the "profoundly gifted". I had no empathy, no patience, no kindness for those I considered less than myself, which was, by the way, everyone. I needed the epic slapdown life gave me in my early 20s. It made me a better person. I cannot even imagine the kind of doctor I would have been at 21.

But I'm sure everyone else's kids are paragons of virtue.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Sigh. If you are a young earth creationist, you don't belong in a university. Not just the sciences. Someone with a black and white worldview and no critical thinking skills would suck in humanities too. Memorizing facts is not higher education.

[debrand]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformed_ ... h_Sciences

The Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences (USU) is a health science university run by the U.S. federal government. The primary mission of the school is to prepare graduates for service to the U.S. at home and abroad in the medical corps.

The university consists of the F. Edward Hebert School of Medicine, a medical school, the Graduate School of Nursing, a nursing school, a postgraduate dental college, and a full health sciences graduate education program. The university's campus is located in Bethesda, Maryland. USU was established in 1972 under legislation sponsored by U.S. Representative Felix Edward Hébert of Louisiana. It graduated its first class in 1980.

Perhaps she went to a military medical school and the requirements are different? Did she go to a civilian medical school?

[mockingbird]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformed_Services_University_of_the_Health_Sciences

Perhaps she went to a military medical school and the requirements are different? Did she go to a civilian medical school?

The requirements don't change. All medical students in the US have to pass the same national board exams whether they are military or civilian, MD or DO. (edit for clarity, I believe the military school gives MD degrees)

[louisa05]

I taught a profoundly gifted kid. He read the Complete Works of Shakespeare while the rest of my freshman were struggling through Romeo and Juliet while also writing his own computer programs and outperforming the seniors in calculus. He used a Rosetta program to teach himself Japanese the following summer and did well enough to converse with his Japanese grandparents in two months. He got a 35 on the ACT and a nearly perfect score on the SAT as well.

His mother was, wisely IMO, completely opposed to accelerating him beyond high school. We found ways to challenge him with extra stuff--such as when he read R&J in one night, I gave him another play (and then another and another...). When he completed all of the math courses, the math chair created an independent study and taught him from her own college texts. However, he was socially awkward, unorganized in the extreme and had a difficult time completing even challenging assignments. He would do the math in class. He would read the lit. But he would zone out and forget to write his papers or whatever. His mom wanted him to overcome those issues before tackling college and by his senior year he had for the most part learned to organize his academic life and relate more normally to his peers. And that is very important to success.

[paganhomeschooler]

Ugh. No offense, but the way people act and talk about the "profoundly gifted" causes serious issues. I speak as someone was is "profoundly gifted". I could have gone to college at 12, teachers were pushing for it, but my mom refused. She saw what being pushed forward did to my brother, and that was one grade. Keep in mind, I never did graduate from college and currently work as a legal secretary, and I am still so grateful that my mother refused to put me in college at 12.

I don't care how smart you are, maturity requires age. Experience requires time on the planet. Perspective requires experience. "Profoundly gifted" children are no superheroes. We're just like the rest of you, we just started reading at 18 months. (Also, I couldn't tie my own shoes or write my own name until the 4th grade. I kept getting passed ahead because I was so far advanced in other ways.) That kind of intelligence doesn't qualify us to be doctors at 20. It doesn't excuse us from adolescence and all the confusion that comes with it. And getting special treatment and being constantly petted for being so special? Doesn't exactly make you sympathetic to all the other people around you, which are, you know, all the people you'll be around forever.

I was such a self centered, egotistical little snot because of all the crap that gets said about the "profoundly gifted". I had no empathy, no patience, no kindness for those I considered less than myself, which was, by the way, everyone. I needed the epic slapdown life gave me in my early 20s. It made me a better person. I cannot even imagine the kind of doctor I would have been at 21.

But I'm sure everyone else's kids are paragons of virtue.

It also has to do with parenting and keeping a child grounded. My kid knows she's smart. She knows she doesn't have to try hard to get good grades. She knows other people do. She sees it every day with her siblings. There have been many, many studies done that profoundly gifted kids ARE differently wired than average kids, or even kids who are only "regularly" gifted. The higher the IQ, the more different they can become.

Personally, I didn't much care for teachers to put my daughter on a pedestal, and I informed them of that. Her 2nd grade teacher worshiped the ground she walked upon. I kindly asked her 3/4 teacher to put her in her place! She was given no special treatment. She was just one of the other kids. It was also helpful that her teacher and her principal at the time both had backgrounds in GT education, so they knew how to handle gifted kids. My most important job as a parent is to make sure my kids grow up to be respectable, upstanding citizens, and I take that job very seriously. I would never allow my child to act like a self-entitled little twat, no matter what their IQ.

I'm sorry you seem to have had such a cynical childhood, but please don't consider your situation the only way. My daughter is VERY empathetic. All of my kids are. You know why? Because I stressed the importance to them to be that way. My daughter doesn't consider herself better than anyone. If anything, she considers herself odd man out because she understands she is different. She is one of the most sensitive, caring kids I've ever met. She will be a friend to anyone, no matter what social "clique" they may belong to. She doesn't look at age, weight, intelligence, skin color, religion, etc. She sees people as fellow human beings. I don't know the IQs of the other kids in her GT class because it was none of my damn business, but I would say 3/4 of them were pretty damn good kids, too. There were a few brats and a few elitist parents, but most really were kind, caring kids who did volunteer work and mentoring.

[paganhomeschooler]

I taught a profoundly gifted kid. He read the Complete Works of Shakespeare while the rest of my freshman were struggling through Romeo and Juliet while also writing his own computer programs and outperforming the seniors in calculus. He used a Rosetta program to teach himself Japanese the following summer and did well enough to converse with his Japanese grandparents in two months. He got a 35 on the ACT and a nearly perfect score on the SAT as well.

His mother was, wisely IMO, completely opposed to accelerating him beyond high school. We found ways to challenge him with extra stuff--such as when he read R&J in one night, I gave him another play (and then another and another...). When he completed all of the math courses, the math chair created an independent study and taught him from her own college texts. However, he was socially awkward, unorganized in the extreme and had a difficult time completing even challenging assignments. He would do the math in class. He would read the lit. But he would zone out and forget to write his papers or whatever. His mom wanted him to overcome those issues before tackling college and by his senior year he had for the most part learned to organize his academic life and relate more normally to his peers. And that is very important to success.

See, that would be an ideal situation! Many schools, however, won't do it. Gifted funding is usually one of the first things cut. Many school districts don't have full time gifted classes or even teachers certified with GT credentials. Many of our local districts only allow for an afternoon pull out 1 day a week. My daughter happened to be very fortunate and in the right school at the right time to have a full time GT class for 3 years. None of the other schools in the same district didn't even have that option! Differentiation is a great option for gifted kids, but sadly it's rarely offered in the extent it would need to be to keep the child challenged. NCLB and the stringent testing standards, let alone the mess of Common Core crap starting next year just makes it all worse. For some gifted kids where homeschooling is not an option (not SOTDRT homeschooling) and schools can't/won't accommodate, maybe early college entrance is their only option. It might not be ideal, but neither is letting a bright mind sit through busy work, not learning new things, either. FAPE doesn't mean much when it comes to dealing with gifted kids.

Sorry, gifted education is one of my passions. It just kills me that kids who have the ability to do so much are being held back from achieving their full potential in our broken educational system in the US.

[Hisey]

I have a child who has been in all the gifted programs available since she was 8. She breezes through the tests she takes to qualify for this advanced class or that. I would agree that it takes a lot of energy to raise a child like this, and, more importantly, there are lots of emotional issues to consider.

These gifted kids know quite well that they are in the "smart" classes, and that this makes their parents proud. That alone puts a lot of pressure on them. Sometimes their self-esteem is tied up in their brains (particularly if they don't excel in any other area). If they are put in college classes ahead of schedule, they certainly know that they are the youngest in a class of young adults, that this amazes people, that their parents hope they will do well. All in all, way too much pressure for a young kid, no matter how much academic gain they might get from the class.

My daughter is smart, to be sure, but that smartness comes at a price. She drives herself relentlessly. Last night, she could not master some problems in her college-level algebra book. Although the problems were not going to be checked or graded, she would not agree to wait and let the teacher explain it the next day--she had to master them now! (actually, after I pushed her, she finally agreed to set them aside). She is also very, very focused on things that other preteens don't think about, like how to get grants for graduate school, etc.

I feel the best thing I can do for her is to let her play and relax as much as possible. She doesn't always relate well to kids her own age, for whatever reason, but fortunately she has a younger sister who will urge her to engage in pretend play and other childlike activities. I feel that is very good for this high-strung, extremely driven kid; I can't say I'd say the same about college, though I believe she could do the work in many of the classes.

[louisa05]

See, that would be an ideal situation! Many schools, however, won't do it. Gifted funding is usually one of the first things cut. Many school districts don't have full time gifted classes or even teachers certified with GT credentials. Many of our local districts only allow for an afternoon pull out 1 day a week. My daughter happened to be very fortunate and in the right school at the right time to have a full time GT class for 3 years. None of the other schools in the same district didn't even have that option! Differentiation is a great option for gifted kids, but sadly it's rarely offered in the extent it would need to be to keep the child challenged. NCLB and the stringent testing standards, let alone the mess of Common Core crap starting next year just makes it all worse. For some gifted kids where homeschooling is not an option (not SOTDRT homeschooling) and schools can't/won't accommodate, maybe early college entrance is their only option. It might not be ideal, but neither is letting a bright mind sit through busy work, not learning new things, either. FAPE doesn't mean much when it comes to dealing with gifted kids.

Sorry, gifted education is one of my passions. It just kills me that kids who have the ability to do so much are being held back from achieving their full potential in our broken educational system in the US.

This was a small private Christian school. They did a lot of things wrong, but this was something they were able to do right. There was no formal gifted program for this kid, or a few others I worked with there who were gifted in one or two areas but not everything like he was. In some ways, I think that was better. Instead of being able to shove him off to some extra differentiated program (which is often a pull out program in the schools I've been around--so that kids are stuck with busy work in classes anyway), we were all responsible to find ways to challenge him ourselves. I had him as a first year teacher and it was a good learning experience for me as well. I learned quickly that making him answer basic comprehension literature questions was a waste of time for both of us and that he wasn't going to do it anyway. It was better to have him write his own questions and answer them and they were of great depth. I eventually had other gifted kids in that school and in another school without a GT program. I was able to challenge them and meet their needs myself which teachers need to do more of. Pull out programs are not enough.

[alba]

I don't care how smart you are, maturity requires age. Experience requires time on the planet. Perspective requires experience. "Profoundly gifted" children are no superheroes. We're just like the rest of you, we just started reading at 18 months. (Also, I couldn't tie my own shoes or write my own name until the 4th grade. I kept getting passed ahead because I was so far advanced in other ways.) That kind of intelligence doesn't qualify us to be doctors at 20. It doesn't excuse us from adolescence and all the confusion that comes with it. And getting special treatment and being constantly petted for being so special? Doesn't exactly make you sympathetic to all the other people around you, which are, you know, all the people you'll be around forever.

I was such a self centered, egotistical little snot because of all the crap that gets said about the "profoundly gifted". I had no empathy, no patience, no kindness for those I considered less than myself, which was, by the way, everyone. I needed the epic slapdown life gave me in my early 20s. It made me a better person. I cannot even imagine the kind of doctor I would have been at 21.

These gifted kids know quite well that they are in the "smart" classes, and that this makes their parents proud. That alone puts a lot of pressure on them. Sometimes their self-esteem is tied up in their brains (particularly if they don't excel in any other area).

This. And this means that when gifted kids are truly challenged, they don't have the emotional skills to cope.

I'm not profoundly gifted, just gifted, but the above definitely applied to me. I mentioned above that I first struggled with school in IB, so in grade 10 or 11. I struggled some more when I got to university. This absolutely killed my self-esteem. I thought I was special. Turned out I was only of average intelligence in the "smart world", which included pretty much everyone in my university classes.

I also thought I had good work ethic. Then I found out I only had good work ethic when the work was easy. It's a lot harder to keep at maths problems you don't understand than ones you can breeze through. I think things were worse for me in high school than a lot of my peers because I simply had no frame of reference for having difficulty at school. I didn't know how to deal with not understanding what the teacher said right away and going on to get high As on my quizzes and tests while barely studying. Emotionally, I was a wreck, because I felt so stupid (I was getting Bs! The horror :P), and if I wasn't smart then what was left of me? And my grades got worse, because I had so much trouble really focussing on my work as I didn't know how to concentrate on something that was hard. It wasn't until my third year that I managed to turn things around and get a decent degree classification.

I'm not saying this happens to all gifted kids. Profoundly gifted kids might not hit the wall I did until later, and they might have the emotional maturity from other areas of life to deal with it better than I did. But I'm also certain I'm not the only one who was praised for my intelligence so often that my entire sense of self-worth was tied up in my academics and who eventually reached a point where I couldn't keep up with my personal standards.