Boston Explosions caused by Muslims

[nelliebelle1197]

Me personally? no, because I am not like that. But there are those who can, and do, and it can be anyone. My point is that we shouldn't focus on religion or what they look like. Why do any of those things matter? If it was a Christian or a Muslim, is that important? No. What is important is that the person is a sick individual.

th,

What for it's worth, I actually understand what you mean and agree. You gave a very rational response to someone who obviously did not get you and overreacted. :angry-banghead:

[flyawaystray]

I think it's sad that it even has to be said. I remember initially, everyone was like: "oh, it was some guy from Saudi Arabia", or "oh, it has to be Muslims." That's really unfair :/

[rollmeover]

th,

What for it's worth, I actually understand what you mean and agree. You gave a very rational response to someone who obviously did not get you and overreacted. :angry-banghead:

Erm, yeah - sorry, flyawaystray, your explanation makes total sense and I have no idea why I didn't grasp what you were saying. Sorry.

I'll go :angry-banghead: myself now!

[gulag]

Tell us again about your superior reasoning skills. I'm still not convinced. Your intellect too, while youre at it, because you don't seem to understand how the above are examples of protests, demonstrations, violence and even riots. They are not examples of how Islamic extremists are kissing cousins to Native Americans. :roll:

And reservations that are sovereign nations do not qualify as a mythical land called "Native America" because why?

Have the courage to stand behind your beliefs and what you say.

I even gave you a potential basis for your comparison, trying to understand why you might hold that belief. Nunavut - the only remote vague possible connection to believing such an idea. But you don't even know what that is, do you?

No worries. That's okay. This'll be all over the Native community by the end of the day. Good thing you're anonymous; it's so awesome to be able to say shit like that and not have to own it.

[Mudball]

Have the courage to stand behind your beliefs and what you say.

I even gave you a potential basis for your comparison, trying to understand why you might hold that belief. Nunavut - the only remote vague possible connection to believing such an idea. But you don't even know what that is, do you?

No worries. That's okay. This'll be all over the Native community by the end of the day. Good thing you're anonymous; it's so awesome to be able to say shit like that and not have to own it.

"Hey native community guize, there's this guy or girl who is called Mudball who I think thinks terrorists and all ndns are totes the same, although nothing of the sort was ever said! UN-Indian that person this instant!" That's some threat. I especially appreciate that there is a single N community online where all rally, yet sovereign tribal nations don't exist in your world. Anyway, if we run in the same NA circles online we can pick this up there, I suppose. Lol

[bionicmlle]

So... in regards to the actual topic of the thread....

I think it's interesting and kind of heartbreaking to hear the family speak on the news. The mother, aunt and father (I think) have all stated that they feel the suspects were framed and that there is "no way" that they would/could do something like this. It must be very difficult to wrap your mind around, as a family member.

Reddit posted a photo of suspect #1 postmortem. Looks like they tried pretty hard to resuscitate him. I really hope they find the younger one and can get more information about what happened and the motivation for these events. I wonder if the 19 year old was following his brother in this plan and is alone, scared as hell and has no clue what to do next.

This morning I said to someone I work with that this all seems so similar to the Christopher Dorner situation.

[PennySycamore]

It's the extremists in any religion/country/philosophy/movement that cause the distress. The uncle of the pair was just on radio, repeating, "I have no words. I have no words." He no doubt has strong political opinions, but apparently he is not taking his mind, nor his beliefs, nor his actions, to the extreme, whatever his thoughts, beliefs and actions are.

We snark on FJ mostly about Christian extremists because that's what's around us in the North American/European/Australian, etc., world, and we can do so in part because our governments are distinct from the religious groups that populate our lands. The people cowering in their homes in Watertown and Boston are experiencing what people in other parts of the world live with nearly daily - because of extremism.

How is it to be moderated, modified? I do not know. Grieving for the family of the slain MIT officer, for the uncles and the young men's families, as well as for the Marathon people. Pray for peace. It's all I can offer, right now.

I'd like your post 1000 times i I could, MamaJunebug.

[formergothardite]

Am I the only one who has no idea what the fight in this thread is about?

[PennySycamore]

Am I the only one who has no idea what the fight in this thread is about?

Nope, you're not the only one who is confused. I join you in your confusion.

[Maggie Mae]

I dunno. I didn't want you to think I was a dumb reservation Native?

You can compare Native Americans to Chechens when there is a Native America in the United States and Canada.

Better?

Again, using a large typeface doesn't mean your words suddenly become clearer. Mudball's initial statement listed various groups of people, as an example of groups of people. Not a direct comparison. As you claim to be so much better than the rest of us - what did you call us again? - plebeians?- perhaps in the future you could work on your reading comprehension. Wow us with your words, not your ability to stylize your posts.

[Guest Anonymous]

Nope, you're not the only one who is confused. I join you in your confusion.

I'm also confused.

I think it started out with somebody objecting to the characterisation of Chechens as crazy, saying that you wouldn't say the same thing about Native Americans. As far as I can tell, it was a complaint about the "All [ethnic group] are [character trait]" format. This was interpreted to mean "Native Americans are just like Chechen rebels." I have no idea what's going on now. It seems to have spiralled out of control.

[Maggie Mae]

I'm also confused.

I think it started out with somebody objecting to the characterisation of Chechens as crazy, saying that you wouldn't say the same thing about Native Americans. As far as I can tell, it was a complaint about the "All [ethnic group] are [character trait]" format. This was interpreted to mean "Native Americans are just like Chechen rebels." I have no idea what's going on now. It seems to have spiralled out of control.

I think it starts here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16981&start=80#p539178

[happy atheist]

This is how it looks to me:

Mudball said - Hey, it's not cool to stereotype.

gulag said - I'm super smart!! How dare you say that Native Americans are in any way similar to Chechens!!!?!?! (Imagine the colors and differing font sizes)

Mudball said - I didn't say that

gulag said - I'm going to lose my fucking mind over this!!

and everyone else stared in slack-jawed horror.

[Joan of Snarc]

^ Recap of the year.

:clap:

[formergothardite]

After reading that for the eleventieth time, I still don't get why gulag flipped out.

[debrand]

th,

What for it's worth, I actually understand what you mean and agree. You gave a very rational response to someone who obviously did not get you and overreacted. :angry-banghead:

I am going to say something that will sound bizarre. Yes, we are all capable of evil. Maybe you wouldn't set a bomb but we all have triggers. It is human nature to put people into groups of 'us' and 'others' and that leads to dehumanizing people. Once you dehumanize people, you can justify doing anything that you want. We all over estimate our moral integrity. What we need to do is remain awake to that inner prompting that tells us, "Those are the bad people." No group of people are all bad nor all good.

[happy atheist]

After reading that for the eleventieth time, I still don't get why gulag flipped out.

I think she misinterpreted mudball's comment to mean that Catholics, Native Americans, and Blacks are much worse than Chechens.

And then absolutely refused to see that she was wrong, even when it was explained several times. She just dug in her heels and got more and more belligerent (ie colorful and big).

[miffy]

Is there any update as to if they are of Chetchen or Dagestani descent?

Not to start another fight, but chetchnya should have been made a fully independent nation after the USSR was broken up. I know you shouldn't give in to terrorists, but old Vlad should let that one go.

[formergothardite]

I think she misinterpreted mudball's comment to mean that Catholics, Native Americans, and Blacks are much worse than Chechens.

And then absolutely refused to see that she was wrong, even when it was explained several times. She just dug in her heels and got more and more belligerent (ie colorful and big).

That makes the whole conversation make sense. Thank you.

[GodsKnickers]

I'm sorry. Can I apologize? I hadn't slept in over 30 hours when I made my comment and I made it on the fly, in between running around to appointments and dropping kids off at work,etc and then I didn't realize the thread had gotten to the size. Perhaps it doesn't make it any better but here's my thought process at the time. I was thinking of the Chechen rebels and how insane the situation was at the Beslan school, where hundreds were massacred, and the majority of them children. I was thinking of these two Chechen invdividuals in that same aspect.

I apologize for how abrupt and flippant it was, and how generalizing it was.

[Mecca]

After reading that for the eleventieth time, I still don't get why gulag flipped out.

Yeah, me either. I have been up since the whole MIT situation went down, and I was not sure if my lack of sleep was making it difficult for me to follow the argument. Admittedly, I did get a good chuckle from the resume type listed qualifications, though. That was completely irrelevant and completely hilarious at the same time.

[gulag]

Chechen rebels quite often sent their trainees to fight in Jihadi wars. As did the IRA and most other terrorist organisations. It's not like there is a centralised boot camp for terrorists. So links to Al Quaeda appears at the moment more a self fulfilling American desire to understand why, Al Qaeda would make sense, but Chechnya?

For some reason I keep on imagining Vladimir Putin pacing around his office in the Kremlin launching an absolute tirade of profanity.

Like engaging in obnoxious stereotyping much?

Is Chechen not an ethnic group?

I'm not sure it's fair to say Chechens are any more brutal or crazy than any other group - Catholics, Native Americans, Blacks etc.

Anyhow, it looks like there is a good chance this attack was perpetrated by two Muslims. Islam extremism might not have anything to do with their motives, but they are from Chechnya and Kazahkstan (sp?) which are predominately Muslim.

I've known some extremely sweet and kind Muslims as well. This makes me worry for their well-being. :cry:

Context? Chechnya. Chechen rebels. Comparison of ethnic groups. Militant extremism. Is the country extremist or the ethnic group?

Here's what I should have responded:

I'm not sure it's fair to say Chechens are any more brutal or crazy than any other group - Catholics, Native Americans, Blacks etc.

Right, it's not fair. Don't say it. Chechens are more brutal and crazy than Native Americans.

[And just a completely different thing. No comparison.]

What came next was a bunch of slamming for writing style, word use, tone, use of emphasis, etc. Nobody actually disagreed or defended that statement or justified how Islamic militant Chechen rebels compare to U.S./Canadian First Nations indigenous tribes. Nope, just attacking the messenger, not the message. But it's the snark forum, right?

Get in my face with foolish colonialism sentiment; I'll give it back. I'm already freaked out by the week's events. The public demonizing ethnic groups and pointing fingers. People trying to contain widespread fear of brown people across the country today. Ooh, get the tar and feathers! Native Americans might be domestic terrorists, comparable to Chechen rebels. I don't think so. Not on my watch. :angry-banghead:

Get a grip. This is irrational and disturbing. I'm not reading this thread anymore.

[Guest Anonymous]

I think you missed the point again, gulag.

[flyawaystray]

The guys are not Chechnyan. Everyone thought so but the uncle was on tv earlier and said they are not.

[miffy]

Mudball meant that there are crazy extremists in all communities. I can guarantee that there would have been serious drama if they meant it the way you think they did.