Lori Alexander: There isn't poverty in America

[Mama Mia]

:roll: I'm so glad there is shelter for everyone in the U.S. ! This will make my job so much easier ! I can just tell the family sleeping in their car with their terminally ill child that there is obviously a shelter available for them - problem solved ! And I'll tell that to the other couple hundred families on the waiting list for the family shelter that they can go there right now and get a room for themselves. Why the heck didn't I read Lori before ? It really would have saved a ton of work. :roll:

[Sobeknofret]

Lori just freaking lives in the stone age. Hope she wakes up at some point and joins us in 2013.

[lilwriter85]

From the comments section

PJB · 48 minutes ago

As I understand it, the poverty line is based on the cost of living, and the percent of family income that goes towards basics like (good) food and (good) housing. I think it's poverty if income barely meets basic needs, with nothing that might be saved, spent on moving up in the world, or used for small niceties.

On the other hand, if they use their income for bad housing and cruddy food, and spend rather than moving up in the world -- I expect they might have enough for some middle class luxuries -- which does tend to skew what poverty looks like from the outside.

On the other hand, there are always debts, loans and overdue bills that make even a normal income level evaporate into hungry living... and that doesn't even account for the very real trap that addictions become (just because one is stupid enough to get in, doesn't mean it's easy to get out) and the sweeping effects of less than ideal mental health.

If poverty wasn't a complex problem, it would probably have been solved already by someone more intelligent than I.

I think your advice on husband selection is wise, but not a guarantee.

Good words on gratitude. Have you ever mused on the verse, "I have never seen the children of the righteous begging for bread?" -- I have often wondered if that is because the children miraculously don't go begging, or whether it is because when "I" see it, "I" feed them... and maybe that's the provision that is being talked about.

The part about bad housing and cruddy food annoyed me. Some people end up with bad housing and cruddy food because they can't afford better housing or things like organic food. Some people struggle to even buy things from non organic grocery stores. Some people can't move up because their incomes never increase and they don't have other resources.

I loved the line about husband selection not being a guarantee. Like we mentioned before, a hard working man can lose his job or the ability to work.

[Wolfie]

And remember, if you are not disabled, and don't have kids, you are worth shit and don't qualify for assistance in most cases.

[moodygirl86]

Yeah, because Lori knows everything. NOT...

[dairyfreelife]

Normally, Lori bores me, but since she seems to be well off, I am going to suggest that she get online and book a flight to West Virginia. Once here, I will take her outside of the city, not not too far. Unfortunately I don't have to go too far to show her reality at first. But I will keep going, deeper into the mountains here and I'm sure it will surprise her. You see, WV is one of the poorest states in the US and she will see schools falling apart because poverty is so high that too few taxes are coming in to fix them. She will see people living in shacks with no running water and wood-burning stoves. But they can all help it. They can just move and get better jobs though they quit school at 16 to work and most places won't hire them, right? But I figure that even if she saw all that, she would find some way to blame them instead of help them out. Can't admit she might be wrong, though.

Humility-Lori lacks it.

[Trynn]

Jee, all those people living under the bridges we brought food to this winter were out there for fun? You mean that those people who died could've prevented their death if they'd just...

Ok I can't type that.

Not to mention, Lori, that not everyone who has a "nice warm house" can afford to keep it all that warm in the winter. Some families are so poor they have to turn the heat down in the winter to save money. My family does this, too, but only at night. Some people have to keep the heat just high enough so the pipes don't freeze, and that's IT.

This woman needs to come to my city, where we have homeless people on the street by the old bookstore. If I can, sometimes I buy them food (I am a college student, after all, oh but that just means I'm rich. Where's that eyeroll smiley?)

[Rosa]

Here's another thing: not everyone can find a job. Because a capitalist economy requires some unemployment. Back in the '90s when unemployment was down around 5%, economists wondered if we had hit the true limit of how low it could go without wrecking the economy. If we had 100% employment -t hat is, everyone who wanted a job had one - it would be very difficult for companies to hire, especially new innovative companies. Change would slow down, wages would rise, there would be inflation, it would be harder for American companies to attract capital because profits would not have room for growth, etc.

All of these so-called capitalists do not understand how capitalism works, I swear.

[Burris]

The family has a nice, warm home. They have warm clothes and a comfortable bed to sleep in. They are well fed. Are they in poverty? According to many people, they are and need more money so they can have more things.

If a family has clean water, nutritious food, heated accommodations, and comfortable beds, then no they are not necessarily impoverished – unless, of course, those accommodations are unstable. While some families are solvent and stable, others live on the razor’s edge, one illness or job loss away from penury.

And of course some people do make poor choices…

…by relying too much on credit cards and getting caught in the ‘minimum payment’ trap

…by assuming their current income is the baseline for all future income, so that they will never end up making significantly less than they do now

…by failing to save a little money each month when possible

…by making spontaneous purchases (rather than doing product research and price comparisons)

…by failing to medically insure their family, their belongings, and their lives based on the hubris of belief that God will provide for them because they are so much more righteous than all those other sinners

…by forgoing preventative medical care such as regular checkups and vaccines – perhaps for the same reason as listed directly above

…by failing to make use of a second potential wage earner when times get tough – again, for the same reason as above

The end of each ‘poor choice’ scenario mentioned above depends not on the faith of those who made these mistakes, but rather on their social position:

** People who come from a middle class background generally have that safety net – rent-free rooms and even whole suites to borrow from family ‘while they get on their feet’; substantial personal loans to be repaid only when the cash-strapped person has the money.

** For people without the privilege of a middle class safety net, even one error can lead them to poverty in unsanitary conditions such as closets, cars, tents; in dangerous places, sometimes along with their families, such as boarding houses; or in the unstable position of requiring a mat at a local homeless shelter.

The difference between the financially distressed person who relies on his family for support and the financially distressed person who sleeps under a bridge has little to do with the nature of their poor choices – assuming personal error took them to those positions to begin with – than with cultural capital and social background. (There is no proof the man under the bridge has done any worse by his finances than the one who has spent the last five years living with his parents ‘until the band takes off.’)

Lori would have us believe that those in the most dire situations are also those who made the most terrible mistakes. That – like everything else she writes – isn’t even remotely true.

Our definition of poverty is crazy… The definition of poverty in America is if you don't have three wide screened televisions and can eat out three times a day.

No; Lori’s self-serving definition of poverty – her laughable mischaracterization of the phenomenon – is crazy. It’s a straw-man she brings it out to avoid having to deal honestly with real arguments.

We don't have poverty in America.

That is simply a lie.

The United States has poverty – several kinds, in fact.

Therse are those people - focused on by such leading lights as Lori and Chris Jeub - who live below the state-mandated poverty line, which exists not as an actual measure of poverty but rather as a tool for determining service eligibility for food stamps or medical coverage. (As some of you may recall, Chris Jeub tried to ‘pull a fast one’ on his readers when he bragged his massive family lived ever so comfortably in poverty as evidenced by how his income places them below the state poverty line. In that scenario, given that one would have to make at least a few hundred thousand dollars a year to remain above the poverty line with so many kids, Jeub’s brag was not only hollow but dishonest.)

Some individuals can live below the poverty line without much difficulty assuming they…

…can rely on family for help during times of crises

…have access to public (or good private) health insurance

…have the life-skills necessary to budget and plan

…live in an area where rent and utilities are reasonable

…have access to jobs or the training to get jobs

Such individuals also tend to have cultural capital sufficient to allow ease-of-conversation across social classes: Cultural capital includes, but is not limited to, good etiquette, the ability to advocate for one's self in print, the capacity to engage in small-talk, and a working knowledge of current events.

Cultural capital, as well as a measure of fame, also proves unsurprisingly helpful for those lucky enough to have access to both when faced with what would otherwise have caused situational poverty.

CASE STUDY: Fundamentalist author Kelly Crawford ended up with all the tools she needed, and more, to rebuild after her home was destroyed by a tornado. She managed this feat by a) relying on her parents, on whose land she lives, and b) using the cultural capital she accrued during college – and experience she doesn’t think girls need – in order not only to gather readers and fans but to endear herself enough they were moved to help her rebuild. It’s highly likely she and her large family live below the poverty line for a family of that size, and yet of course she isn’t poor

Another form of poverty, beyond the legal definition thereof and the situational variety, is chronic (and sometimes generational).

People in these situations are by far the most often mistreated.

Those who grew up in want, certain minorities, the elderly, and people with disabilities are among those who could fall through the cracks and into poverty; losing shelter and regular access to nutritious food for a variety of reasons beyond their control.

And so quite naturally, Lori chooses to peck at the visibly poor: The homeless.

Even the homeless people can have a place to stay and food whenever they want.

That is not actually true. Depending on the area, they may find shelters full or unable to accommodate wheelchairs or people with ventilators or other medical needs. Homeless people may have to patch together their weekly menu from a variety of feeding venues, each of which may only be open in itself one or two days a week.

Homeless people who have jobs – yes, Lori, these people exist; and, what is more, they’re probably the ones you bitch about when you see them with cell phones - may end up “sleeping rough†because the shelter shuts its doors – no exceptions – before these people can make it back from work.

They may otherwise be subject to a lottery for mat space. They may be limited in the number of days per month or per quarter during which they’re allowed to stay in a specific shelter. Husbands and wives may have to use different shelters.

No, Lori, it’s not raining food, shelter, and money down on people in poverty - you know, the “least of these†whom you’re commanded to help.

It is important for those individuals who profess the same faith as Lori to help the weak with their own hands, and not merely by giving a little money to the church collection plate in the mistaken belief that such “charity†then gives one the right to judge its recipients.

Poverty in America is a poverty of moral values. Poverty in America is families without fathers. Poverty in America is the break down of the family and the "anything goes" mentality. Poverty in America is the unwillingness to work and expecting others to take care of you.

If there is a moral poverty in America, then it’s a poverty of grace, charity, and lovingkindness; the moral poverty is an evil for which Lori is a willing tool.

People in poverty, however poor for however long and for whatever reason, are still people; still worthy of dignity, at least, and more from those who claim, as Lori does, to represent a benevolent God.

And since all people are different, some will remain in poverty – homeless in the dead of winter, for example – no matter what is done for them. Others need only a hand up. Both groups, broadly speaking, can do without the offensive and dehumanizing sermons offered by Lori and her like.

God tells us if we have food and clothing we should be content. I don't see any naked, starving people in America. I see that in Africa but not in America. We are a spoiled country and it is going to be the death of us unless we wake up and start being thankful.

I’ve never been to Africa; I have only seen pictures of some parts of that continent. Many of those photos are poignant shots of poverty.

I’ve never been to Detroit, either; I’ve only seen pictures. But whereas poverty may be more widespread in Africa, want and wasting look the same everywhere: Hunger looks the same everywhere. And those pictures of Detroit, or from the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver, Canada, or from some drought stricken village in Africa – the archetcture and level of surrounding advancement may be different, but the desperation is the same; the dehumanization is the same. It is the same trap – the pain of believing one’s one life was obviously a mistake and a waste because he or she lacks the wealth to buy dignity, security, safety, and belonging – all of which, coming from someone who professes to believe in the God Lori praises, should flow freely and on her tongue should be the law of kindness.

God tells us if we have food and clothing we should be content. I don't see any naked, starving people in America. I see that in Africa but not in America. We are a spoiled country and it is going to be the death of us unless we wake up and start being thankful.

God says if you see a person with no garments, whereas you have two, then you should part with one – with not a question as to what the man did to literally lose his shirt.

God shows mercy to the merciless. Those who fail to pass that favor on are in no position to castigate the poor for any moral failures, imagined or real.

[salex]

:roll: I'm so glad there is shelter for everyone in the U.S. ! This will make my job so much easier ! I can just tell the family sleeping in their car with their terminally ill child that there is obviously a shelter available for them - problem solved ! And I'll tell that to the other couple hundred families on the waiting list for the family shelter that they can go there right now and get a room for themselves. Why the heck didn't I read Lori before ? It really would have saved a ton of work. :roll:

Maybe send them to Lori's house with a note that God told you she had a spare room for them.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Normally, Lori bores me, but since she seems to be well off, I am going to suggest that she get online and book a flight to West Virginia. Once here, I will take her outside of the city, not not too far. Unfortunately I don't have to go too far to show her reality at first. But I will keep going, deeper into the mountains here and I'm sure it will surprise her. You see, WV is one of the poorest states in the US and she will see schools falling apart because poverty is so high that too few taxes are coming in to fix them. She will see people living in shacks with no running water and wood-burning stoves. But they can all help it. They can just move and get better jobs though they quit school at 16 to work and most places won't hire them, right? But I figure that even if she saw all that, she would find some way to blame them instead of help them out. Can't admit she might be wrong, though.

Humility-Lori lacks it.

Ages ago on my city's local Usenet group I got in some epic flamewar with a guy who was insisting that the poor people of Appalachia (which is not here, I don't even remember why we were fighting about them, now) should all just grow a pair, uproot themselves, and move to Seattle because of course they can all just get jobs at Boeing.

...scary thing is that guy (who I was always getting into fights with, ha :)) ran for state senate, he didn't win though (trust me I didn't vote for him!! but the fact he was running, not gonna deny it made me feel old!).

Anyway, years later when I read of massive layoffs at Boeing, well... had to bring it up again. But point being, sometimes people have support networks that make living off the grid or depending on other people (because you've got long relationships with them) easier, and without a sure guarantee it's only human to not want to give up what you have for the unknown.

Here's another thing: not everyone can find a job. Because a capitalist economy requires some unemployment... All of these so-called capitalists do not understand how capitalism works, I swear.

Oh hell yes this. Heck, if your goal is to have labor continually moving around and flowing to where it's needed, probably the best thing you can do is get some sort of universal health care system (so people don't cling to bad jobs to preserve their health insurance) and make being unemployed actually livable and without a huge stigma, so it's more just the "ah, I'm between jobs again" thing.

But hey. I heard some 96% of Americans own a refrigerator, so yeah, no poverty here. Move along.

...never mind that poverty is relative...

[Dysfundamental]

There are people who starve to death in the US every day. There are people who freeze to death every winter and die of heat exhaustion every summer.

She is the opposite of everything Jesus taught. She is the Bad Samaritan.

[lilwriter85]

Did an FJer leave this comment on Lori's blog?

Joluise · 1 hour ago

You are quite right PJB in defining poverty. It does exist in the USA (and the statistics are there to prove it). Be thankful that you aren't one of the many who are unable to pay their next bill, are poorly educated, lack suitable housing, can't afford health care, never quite sure where the next meal is coming from. They aren't interested in 3 TVs they just need to some help to get out of the position they are in. Lori, they don't live in your neighbourhood but they are there even if you can't see them. Many of those in poverty are embarrassed by their position and are not there by choice - it sometimes doesn't take much such as the husband loosing his job and unable to pay the bills and they loose the house. However due to the lack of education (often inter-generational) they are not able to easily or quickly get themselves out of their poverty. And please remember that the working poor can still be in poverty - hard working but receiving very low income. I to can sit back in my middle class home and high income and say that those who aren't as well off as me must be lazy, lets not be so harsh and think that perhaps life isn't that simple.

I loved this comment and I'm surprised Lori allowed it to be posted. Maybe it will make her think, but it is likely Lori will continue to live in her idiot bubble.

[alba]

Someone needs to send Lori to a First Nations reservation.

The family has a nice, warm home. They have warm clothes and a comfortable bed to sleep in. They are well fed. Are they in poverty? According to many people, they are and need more money so they can have more things.

I read something interesting in the news a while ago about the definition of "poverty" in the UK. People get all up in arms about people on Jobseekers' Allowance having smartphones but, as this article pointed out, unless you have access to a good public library (hard when they're all being shut down), you need either home internet access or a smartphone to apply for jobs, and sometimes the smartphone is the cheaper and more versatile option. In other words, we're an increasingly techonological society and things that were luxuries a few years ago are virtually necessities for jobhunters.

Our definition of poverty is crazy. We don't have poverty in America. Even the homeless people can have a place to stay and food whenever they want. The definition of poverty in America is if you don't have three wide screened televisions and can eat out three times a day.

Uh, no they don't. That's why we call them "homeless".

:angry-banghead:

[Hane]

There are people who starve to death in the US every day. There are people who freeze to death every winter and die of heat exhaustion every summer.

She is the opposite of everything Jesus taught. She is the Bad Samaritan.

Oh, yeah--isn't he the dude who said, "Sell what you have and give to the poor"? I notice he didn't add, "But first decide whether you think the poor deserve it."

[jenny_islander]

Food whenever they want, huh? Yeah, that's why way too many U.S. cities have redefined free meals served outdoors as "feedings" and made them illegal.

Not rich people's picnics. Just "feedings" provided by people who want to make sure that nobody starves.

But if we let poors be visible, like, just standing there eating like real people, then, gosh, we'd have to look at them!

And don't even get me started on businesses that throw perfectly wholesome food into the garbage and then deliberately pour bleach all over it.

[lilwriter85]

Food whenever they want, huh? Yeah, that's why way too many U.S. cities have redefined free meals served outdoors as "feedings" and made them illegal.

Not rich people's picnics. Just "feedings" provided by people who want to make sure that nobody starves.

But if we let poors be visible, like, just standing there eating like real people, then, gosh, we'd have to look at them!

And don't even get me started on businesses that throw perfectly wholesome food into the garbage and then deliberately pour bleach all over it.

That pisses me off too, but many grocery stores these are donating some of their unsold food to pantries and shelters. My aunt and uncle got into volunteering with a food pantry in the late 90s after they had both retired. They would drive to 3 or 4 grocery stores to pick up day old bakery items. They were on a rotated volunteer schedule. When I worked at a grocery store, some of the bakery items were donated between a homeless shelter, domestic violence victims shelter, and two pantries. Some of the beverage items that didn't sell well were sometimes donated to disaster relief organizations.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Hey Lori, ever heard the story of the early Christian holy man who sold his last possession - his Bible - to feed the poor? He believed that this was the most direct way to obey Jesus, and felt like a hypocrite owning a book while others went hungry.

Something to think about...

[lilwriter85]

Asswipe Ken Alexander commented on yesterday's entry

Ken · 13 hours ago

Lori’s point is on target once again. While much of the rest of the world may suffer from a poverty of means, in the USA our poverty comes from a poverty of moral values. Nine out of ten times it is parents who are messed that lead to hungry kids.

If you or a family member are going without food, and the basic necessities in the USA, something is wrong with an adult or two in the family. No one disputes that children go to bed hungry, but the statistics on hunger in America are enormously skewed with the majority of people going hungry are the elderly who often refuse to go into a home as they want to live on their own.

Poverty exists in the USA, but with all the resources, handouts and Christians willing to help, if a child is going hungry it is not because of the lack of resources, but the fault of a parent who is too high to care, or too proud to ask for help from a church or para-church organization. Stand by a sign on the street asking for help and you can make $200 - $300 a day.

Ken is a fucking dick. Yes, some people do end up in bad financial situations because of irresponsibility, but not financially struggling people have something wrong with them. Some people can't get better jobs or easily leave high cost of living areas. Ken, other people in addition to your precious Christians also do their best to help those in need. Synagogues and Jewish organizations do assist the poor. A friend of mine is on the board of a Jewish community organization and they donate portions of their fundraisers to homeless shelters and food banks. But again Ken and Lori have the fucking grandiose attitude that Christians are supreme and are the only ones doing good things. Atheists and agnostics in this country do a lot to help people in need. This is one of my favorite quotes from Madalyn Murray O'Hair

An atheist believes that a hospital

should be built instead of a church.

An atheist believes that deed must

be done instead of prayer said.

An atheist strives for involvement in life

and not escape into death.

He wants disease conquered,

poverty vanished, war eliminated.

I know many FJers are Christian and are from other religions. I'm cool with that. But these special snowflake Christians like Ken,Lori, and the CF husband asshole Nate Lawrenson piss me off. They act like they are gifts to the world because they are Christians. I know there many Christians who are very kind and support certain forms of government assistance and they don't rip all people in need to shreds like the Alexanders do.

[ems]

Dear Lori:

The reason that the poor in America generally are not starving or without warmth and shelter like in the Third World is because of that social safety net you so detest.

kthanxbai

[Wolfie]

And, EVEN if it is the fault of an adult in a child's life that the child is living in poverty, why is it okay to punish the child for something that is not their own fault?

[skeptifem]

Bwah! Plus cunts are useful!

Lori is useless.

wow gross. Words like "cunt" demean all women when they are used as insults.

[VooDooChild]

wow gross. Words like "cunt" demean all women when they are used as insults.

Wouldn't "bitch" be demeaning also? You know being referred to as a dog. Or asshole? An anus is gross too. Or dick? They're not always lovely.

I just don't understand how one insult is more demeaning than another.

[itsnikki05]

She has OBVIOUSLY never been to MS, then. I can show you poverty. What a jackass!!