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Orphan Black on BBC America


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The Beth-Allison thing is based on how upset Allison is when Beth dies and how Cosima says "I know you two were close". The shipping tag for them on tumblr is 'soccercop'

Rachel and Sarah are known as propunk on tumblr. I didn't really notice it until Sarah was on top of Rachel and i probably wouldn't have noticed if it hadn't been giffed and slowed down. Or maybe it is just wishful thinking.

I don't understand WHY the fundies are wanting to impregnant Helena, but I saw it coming the moment they were doing AI on the cow. It's funny because all my friends who watch the show didn't realise what the guy was doing and kept asking why he had his hand up that cow's butt!

Honestly, I didn't think they were going to harvest her eggs and fertilise them outside the body; i was expecting that they would do turkey baster and then Helena escaped and she'd end up being pregnant and confused. I guess I like this better because she's consenting, in a way, at least.

I've seen a few good posts online about epigenetics and showing what things could cause the differences between them. All their issues and most personality traits are manifestations of the same personality, but things like Cosima's vision and other things can be explained by epigenetics. Someone even worked out the epigenetics of Helena's blonde hair even though it's clearly dyed... the regrowth has increased since season 1.

As for Sarah and potentially Helena being fertile, someone I know with a background in science or medicine, thinks it's related to whats-her-name who carried them; she's genetically not related to her but she was presumably fertile herself as she was carrying them for money. I don't know about that theory as it doesn't make much sense to me.

I'm really liking Gracie right now. she used to annoy me, and then she tried to kill Helena and that made me really hate her, but from a fundie point of view, she's pretty much a badass.

My own theory on the infertility is to do with the condition that Cosima/Jennifer/Katja etc have/had. When they did the dissection on Jennifer, they found it all started in the uterus and that'd make a person infertile.

Speaking of the autopsy... I couldn't understand why two non-medical scientists were doing an autopsy and making complicated diagnosis.

Anyone else concerned about Kal and Kira?

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I don't trust Cal. For a guy who allowed Kira to get snatched at his farm, he continues to be negligent with keeping both eyes on her at all times.

Is it possible for the twins to have some of Amelia's genetic material via placenta?

I thought Alison was torn up over Beth's death because she was the only one with the means to keep them safe.

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I don't trust Cal. For a guy who allowed Kira to get snatched at his farm, he continues to be negligent with keeping both eyes on her at all times.

Is it possible for the twins to have some of Amelia's genetic material via placenta?

I thought Alison was torn up over Beth's death because she was the only one with the means to keep them safe.

I've read two theories that seem to be plausible in terms of science.

There is this one, which is to do with the illness the clones seem to have and the fact that Sarah and Helena are twins.

This link has a response to the theory which is really interesting too.: here

The other theory didn't make as much sense to me and I can't find that anymore.

This explains it quite simply as well. Interestingly, they hinted in season one that Helena might be infertile; Tomas was surprised that Sarah had a biological daughter, so I'm interested to see if that was more of a false lead.

I also found the posts about epigenetics that I mentioned earlier! Interestingly enough, Cosima's dissertation was on the affects of epigenetics on clone cells, which I always thought was pretty apt.

There is this one here and quite a few others around the place that are more in depth.

I really love the science of the show, and most of the things have made lots of sense in terms of the science. The whole fingerprint thing in season one frustrated me though, because it doesn't make sense on so many levels. Even assuming the clones had similar fingerprints, it makes no sense that Beth's fingerprints weren't in the system when she became a cop. It also makes no sense that Beth didn't find Sarah's photo in the licence database, unless she's driving around unlicensed.

I definitely don't trust Cal. He's creepy, and he seems to have adapted very fast to these new circumstances... plus, he has all those ids? Someone I know was saying that he must be good because Kira is so intuitive and she'd pick up if something was amiss, but I think people really overestimate Kira. She's a child, and her ability to sense those things is arguably skewed, given her upbringing and her parental figures. and again, she's a child.

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jerichojones, thanks for the excellent links! You have now teased me with Pandora's Box. I have a million questions.

So if I'm following the crazy science theory correctly, the clones' infertility wasn't written/imbedded in their DNA prior to implantation, but as a result of uterine environment? Makes sense given Amelia bolted sometime during gestation. Does that require the clones to keep up a regime of testosterone shots throughout their lives? If so, that would be Dyad's doing as part of their monitoring program?

So how do the Proletheans fit in? They obviously were surprised Sarah was fertile. Did they assume Helena wasn't because she's convent pure or they knew the science and continued injecting Helena with testosterone? Were they part of the original cloning team. Was there a split in the ranks? Were the original scientists (Rachel's parents) Neolutionists? I'm still cloudy on the Proleathean/Neolutionist divide.

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I'm assuming that, at a certain point, the testosterone would be unnecessary, but until then it was part of the Dyad's program. If we're assuming that each of the clones grew up with the parents who carried them, they would have had certain rules and probably be told that they had to take their daughters to certain doctors etc. There is, of course, the chance that the girls "parents" all adopted them and they were carried by surrogates like Sarah and Helena.

And as for Helena, I'm not really sure, but I have a feeling that there may have been attempts in the past, unless Maggie Chen mentioned it to Tomas at some point. The other possibility is that the dyad knew where helena was and someone involved in the dyad administered medical care to both her and the other orphans there.

Of course, perhaps Tomas' surprise isn't really relevant. We'll probably find out soon enough. Maybe the fact that they were able to harvest and fertilise her eggs is more than enough to prove helena's fertility; i can imagine donnie and allison attempting IVF/using a surrogate before adopting, unless adoption was something Allison was passionate about. Perhaps she was adopted (i've considered that for some time tbqh). Of course, if Allison were adopted, I can't imagine it not being mentioned when Sarah showed up and they had the first clone club meeting.

I don't know. I love the science of the show, but it frustrates me because the show is sci-fi and they're probably going to just make up the science anyway.

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Wow jericho and Geechee - awesome posts for me to think about... I totally missed all the supposed cloney unresolved sexual tension I have to say. Not sure I'm really on board with it, but we shall see, I guess.

quote="Joan of Snarc"]Sarah seems to despise Rachel, to me.

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I'm not sure how i feel about clones getting it on, but I can't help but see some sexual tension at times. full disclosure, i'm gay, so I do tend to see lesbian happenings sometimes where it isn't (oh for representation).

in fact, my most popular post on tumblr of all time is about how there are so many ethical questions about orphan black, what with cloning and patenting dna etc but my biggest question is whether it's wrong for the clones to get it on. i'm more on the side of yes it is wrong, for what it's worth, but i've spent a lot of time thinking about it.

[i'm also a big fan of tegan and sara, identical twin girl band and they're both gay, and there are people who think they're in a relationship, so i've thought a lot about the topic even though it totally grosses me out in some ways]

cal is seedy as all hell... i mean, the fact that he had the camper there, ready to go... whose name is it in? i can't help but think he's associated with the dyad... they do, all of a sudden, have the treatment for cosima which is from a female relative; daughter or niece... which basically means kira.

I agree daffydill... we need more episodes! In a way, i'm a little glad as I'm hopefully going overseas soon and I won't miss any episodes thanks to the short season! yayyy!

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Jericho, I would love to hear you thoughts on why the clones shouldn't hook up.

T&S like together-together? For realizes? Not like a gay for play or pay after the t.a.t.u model? OMG, consider my mind blown!

Back to OB, I wonder if some the stem cells Cosima received could have possibly come from Siobhan? Surely Kira would've known if she got stuck with needles after being captured by the Birders, no? Kira being the relative is too easy, and a possible red herring.

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Jericho, I would love to hear you thoughts on why the clones shouldn't hook up.

T&S like together-together? For realizes? Not like a gay for play or pay after the t.a.t.u model? OMG, consider my mind blown!

Back to OB, I wonder if some the stem cells Cosima received could have possibly come from Siobhan? Surely Kira would've known if she got stuck with needles after being captured by the Birders, no? Kira being the relative is too easy, and a possible red herring.

it couldn't come from siobhan unless siobhan was the genetic mother of the clones. The show is pushing us towards kira because the stem cells are allegedly from a baby tooth. of course, siobhan could have given them the baby tooth. I agree that it's too obvious

if it wasn't from a relative, of sorts, i would have thought it'd have been one of rachel's baby teeth because of the dyad.

there are obviously clones that we don't know about, so i wouldn't be surprised if the stem cells came by way of them. i'm sure that not all the clones are infertile and that kira isn't the only child that a clone has had. perhaps the big reveal of the rest of the clones/offspring/etc will be in the season finale.

as for why I'm against it? idk. i think it's more because there is a fine line and it just weirds me out. I'm not really strongly opposed, but I just don't actively ship it. i think it's because they're genetically identical, so they might as well be identical twins, and the thought of identical twins getting together is wrong... and even if they were separated at birth, i'd still be weirded out by them being lovers, so when I thought about it that way.... it just seems wrong somehow.

i doubt they'd go there though; they're already showing one lesbian relationship on the show, and showing one involving two women who are identical might be a little too controversial. i would, however, be interested to see what Tatiana thinks.

i really want some further development of the plot last season where kira has super healing powers. that seemed a little strange to me and i'd love to see where that came from.

[yes there are people that ship them together like they're identical twins not lovers jfc get a grip people. If you google quincest you'll find people's "proof"! they're so not together though and i think they get grossed out by the fact that people write fan fiction about it]

i have way too many thoughts about fictional characters

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i really want some further development of the plot last season where kira has super healing powers. that seemed a little strange to me and i'd love to see where that came from

Wasn't that similar to Helena? She seems to be able to heal quite quickly as well. Like when Sarah rammed that metal pole through her middle - admittedly she had Tomas caring for her, but still...

Speaking of Helena, I was wondering when I watched this weeks episode... what they will do about the appearance of her eyes. You know how she has that pinky red shadow around them? I've always just figured it was because she wasn't out in the sunlight/open air much, and probably had a diet severely lacking in something-or-other. But now she gets about more, has access to better (well, more, anyway) food, will she begin to look healthier? Although she has always had that fragile, underfed appearance, she certainly never seemed to lack for physical strength. Just random thoughts...

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Ah, I get it now. It does come off as incesty to ship the clones. The super healing is definitely genetic as evidenced by Helena with the rebar and gunshot. Sarah & Vic were in a domestic violence relationship. I think her injuries, never manifested like a typical human. No doubt, Kira has it too.

That musical is delightfully cheesy. I want to see the full show. Thanks for the link.

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See, I saw Helena more as having a high pain tolerance; she certainly wasn't quick to heal, at least I didn't think so.

Kira, on the other hand, healed really quickly. Her stats in the ambulance were fading and, if i remember correctly, she may have even coded?

Idk it could be the same thing because helena certainly had worse injuries.

The red eyes and pale appearance would be from a lifetime of poor nourishment. She'd have a handful of deficiencies, probably B12, vitamin D, definitely vitamin c. i'd be interested to see her bloodwork tbqh.

actually, thinking about helena's health, she could be a super fast healer too, because most deficiencies and other conditions, like scurvy (which i wouldn't be surprised if she had), and vitamin D deficiencies cause poor healing, so maybe her healing is impeded by all of that and presumably, if she were healthy, she would heal as fast as kira

helena is certainly looking healthier, but she's still not in an ideal environment, health wise. she was eating canned whatever on the run with sarah, plus basically living off sugar for years beforehand. i think they'd be safe to keep her looking the way she is looking for a long time still because it takes a long time to fully become healthy. i have a lot of deficiencies and food issues and i've been trying to fix them for years now and it's still something i'm trying to fix.

sigh i really think too much about this

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I love the attention to detail the hair/makeup department use to differentiate the clones. The clones even have slightly different body types.

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COSIMA'S BOOBS ARE THE BIGGEST!

My personal head canon is that it was through the boobs that delphine worked out that sarah was posing as cosima!

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Trying to catch up a bit here.

I've seen a few good posts online about epigenetics and showing what things could cause the differences between them.

Oh, I know what epigenetics is -- certain genes being expressed or not being expressed based on your environment. I totally didn't think of that to account for the differences among the clones, but it makes perfect sense. And of course, I completely missed the topic of Cosima's thesis being epigenetics in clone cells. Sometime this summer, I'm going to go back and binge watch all the episodes. I'm sure I'm missing other important details.

I'm really liking Gracie right now. she used to annoy me, and then she tried to kill Helena and that made me really hate her, but from a fundie point of view, she's pretty much a badass.

I think Gracie's kind of badass too; she could be a really interesting character. This show has absolutely fucking nailed the creepy fundie vibe, with Gracie's mouth being sewn shut and her being stuck in a sort of prayer closet. :pink-shock:

I thought Alison was torn up over Beth's death because she was the only one with the means to keep them safe.

Yes. This makes more sense to me than clones being attracted to each other. Especially uptight Allison. Can you imagine?

Allison: Hey Beth, how are you today? Thinks: Damn, girlfriends lookin hot today. Do I look like that? Oh wait. I do.

Beth: I'm really worried about who's picking us off. Thinks: Wow, Allison's really been working those glutes. I wouldn't mind some one-on-one clone time! Or, I could just have one-on-one time with myself later. Same diff.

Allison, sees Beth staring at her and knows what she's thinking, because hey, epigenetics be damned, they're the same!: Beth! Um, well, good luck with solving the, um, mystery. I have to go home to my husband now! You know, Donnie? My husband? Whom I'm happily married to! Scurries off and thinks, Damn! That woman may look like me, but she is nothing like me! Nothing! Now where did I leave that vibrator?

Beth, thinks: See ya later bitch. You just missed your last best chance to have your mind blown.

my most popular post on tumblr of all time is about how there are so many ethical questions about orphan black, what with cloning and patenting dna etc but my biggest question is whether it's wrong for the clones to get it on. i'm more on the side of yes it is wrong, for what it's worth

I don't think it would be wrong, because no one would be harmed, but I just don't see it happening between clones or identical twins. We aren't wired to be attracted to ourselves, even if there are small epigenetic differences. Although I suppose that could be the fantasy of an extreme narcissist.

I can definitely see Cal working for Dyad but I hope not. It would be nice if there was someone Sarah could trust (besides Fe.) Considering Helena voluntarily went with the Proletheans, I don't think she'll be getting healthy any time soon. Poor Helena.

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Thinks: Damn, girlfriends lookin hot today. Do I look like that? Oh wait. I do.

*dying*

i'll be honest, I can imagine Rachel doing that.

I really love all the little things about all the clones, especially the things that come from Tatiana. According to Tatmas, Rachel is really into 90s jams. i can just imagine her listening to Space Jam haha

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Tatiana's playlists are amazing. In the clonepocalypse thing will Wheaton hosted, she talked about Rachel's one as well, but didn't go into much detail.

It makes you wonder about other actresses that auditioned; imagine all that work, only to not get the part!

I'd be interested to see who else was short listed because they'd be great talents themselves. Tmas says she only got the part because her clones had the best chemistry with Jordan's felix, though she doesn't give herself much credit

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For all the Cosima #girlcrushes:

cosima_zps13f8ab5c.jpg

Pour moi:

paul_zps7f56c000.jpg

No wonder she was duuurdee sexaaay Rachel with him....

Thanks for those playlists. I will have to check out some of those songs. Being old, I only knew the Clash song and the ones from West Side Story.

:lol:

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It makes you wonder about other actresses that auditioned; imagine all that work, only to not get the part!

Read an article somewhere that they also liked Tatiana cos she rollerbladed into the audition, and was also helping the other girls auditioning with their lines.

I'd be interested to see who else was short listed because they'd be great talents themselves. Tmas says she only got the part because her clones had the best chemistry with Jordan's felix, though she doesn't give herself much credit

Another thing I read was an interview with one of the girls that didn't get Tatiana's role, but works as her 'body double' For example when Sarah is talking to Allison, and all we see is the back of Allisons head, that is the back of this girls head.

Will find links to the articles later if I can find 'em. Sorry, bit incoherent atm - didn't sleep much :sleeping:

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i know right omg! I was only half watching because I've got so much work to get through and then all of a sudden...

this whole episode was one giant mind melt. In fact, this whole season, i finish episodes and i'm left sitting here thinking WTF!

i missed helena though.

has anyone else noticed that on of the main instrumental themes this season sounds a lot like the scientist by coldplay? that song makes me tear up so much and they always play the theme that sounds a little like that when it's really emotional and ugh tears

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