Apparently, Christian "Bar Mitzvahs" are a thing now....

[Guest Anonymous]

Here communion is done at 9-10 years old, and confirmation with 15-18. The first communion is usually a big celebration with a party an all but is more cultural than religious thing thought.

I understad why this thing of appropriating someones rituals is disturbing to you. But most religions and cults have come from borrowing ideas and traditions from others, just like the christian christmas come from pagan celebrations, so if they want to do it and believe in that, why not? and at least Jesus was a jewish himself so is not that weird.

I don't think Jesus being Jewish justifies the modern-day appropriation of Jewish traditions by Christians. The Judaism of Jesus's time was very different from today's Judaism. Pointing out that Jesus was Jewish seems like a really vague and distant connection to make. It ignores the more recent and relevant aspects of the relationship between Christians and Jews (e.g. the centuries of violence and persecution and the present-day cultural dominance of Christianity).

I've been trying to think of a good analogy, this is what I have so far:

It's like saying "the whole human race came out of Africa, so it should be OK for white people to wear blackface and make n-word jokes".

[Diana]

I don't think Jesus being Jewish justifies the modern-day appropriation of Jewish traditions by Christians. The Judaism of Jesus's time was very different from today's Judaism. Pointing out that Jesus was Jewish seems like a really vague and distant connection to make. It ignores the more recent and relevant aspects of the relationship between Christians and Jews (e.g. the centuries of violence and persecution and the present-day cultural dominance of Christianity).

I've been trying to think of a good analogy, this is what I have so far:

It's like saying "the whole human race came out of Africa, so it should be OK for white people to wear blackface and make n-word jokes".

Sorry but i dont understand your analogy, yes we all came from africa, and we can say that we all humans of all countries and races are related and a big family that came from the same female ancestor called Lucy thousands of years ago, i dont see what this fact have to do whith making bad jokes or anything.

Jesus being a jewish is a very important part of christianity and the new testament cant be understood without the old one. Yes there is a history of bad relationship between jewish and christians, but christians were also persecuted by romans and still the roman culture has a big presence in christian culture,civilization and laws. And i think is a good thing that today the violence of the past is overcomed and people want to coexist in peace, so if they want to learn from them i dont see in that a bad thing, is better than the violence of the past, because there was a bad relationship in the past it haves to be like that forever?

[Guest Anonymous]

My analogy was not very good. It's a work in progress.

I was trying to say: Christianity having its roots in Judaism is not a licence for Christians to use Judaism as a plaything, a tool, an extension of their own religion or a convenient learning exercise.

[divadivine]

Could they not do something like a confirmation? I hate the appropriation of religious traditions, even though I'm of no faith myself.

They do things like that too. A guy I work with is Presbyterian. He was talking about his daughter going through Confirmation. Someone asked "Are you Catholic?" He said no, but they do this program called Niners (for 9th graders) and it's like Confirmation, yada, yada, yada.

Ok, it's not Confirmation, so don't call it Confirmation or allude that it's like Confirmation. Why are so many of these religions make it clear they don't agree with what Catholics or people of the Jewish faith believe, but they're the first ones to adopt things we do and act like it's okay because they chose to do it and now it's right. It's like all the Protestant churches that are now celebrating (although, it's not a time of celebration) Lent. They have no idea what Lent is really all about. Sorry, It just pisses me off.

[meda]

Many Protestant denominations have confirmation. I was confirmed in a Presbyterian church (didn't stick) when I was 13, so I don't think it's an appropriation of the Catholic ritual, it really is a ritual specific to the denomination. Just because it's not what a Catholic recognizes as "confirmation" does not make it less legitimate. Many different denominations of Christians have a communion ritual. The practice varies widely, but it's all still communion. Some Protestant denominations also follow Lentin observance. The Catholic Church does not have a monopoly on Christian celebrations, and other denominations are not necessarily "doing it wrong".

I think that's different than appropriating the rituals of a different religion without understanding or respecting the ritual. "Easter Seders" baffle me.

[duplessis3]

What the heck? Lent is for everyone, not just Catholics. I was raised Baptist, and we did Lent. We also di Holy Week.

Anyway, I don't like that the article called them "mainline" Christians. They aren't.

As a Baptist kid, I was baptized the first time at around 11 or 12. I had to study for it - my mom made me read about other religions, we had weekly meetings with the minister. And then we got immersed. No confirmation because the preBaptis.m classes were it .

I was UCC for awhile, and they let parents choose whether to baptise their infants or not. We didn't. Kids get confirmed after they have been baptized. (I guess if you are one of the age of reason freaks, like we were, you'd go through confirmation class, get sprinkled and then confirmed.)

Now we are UUs. (And I don't like that joke much. I find it dismissive of the faith. Maybe it is funnier if you live where there are a lot of UUs.) My eldest went through a year long coming of age program, which he found very meaningful. (ot:it is very interesting raising thildren in a different faith tradition. Water comunion and flower communion are way more important to them than Easter

[GinaM]

Maybe I'm late to the party but I'm 1st generation Mexican American, and I had a quinceanera. My quince had a Catholic mass before the big ballroom party,. my brother did not get the mass and big party. my parents bought him a car when he turned 16. everyone seemed ok with that arrangement.

i was confirmed when I was a freshman in high school. We studied for that for months and then it was a big group of us getting confirmed. It was like 50 people, mostly teens but the random adult that needed it done to get married in the church. It took forever but my parents threw a small party afterwards. My brothers confirmation was also followed by a party.

[pookel]

I understad why this thing of appropriating someones rituals is disturbing to you. But most religions and cults have come from borrowing ideas and traditions from others, just like the christian christmas come from pagan celebrations, so if they want to do it and believe in that, why not? and at least Jesus was a jewish himself so is not that weird.

I'm sorry, the religion that's responsible for a thousand years of blood libel and pogroms doesn't get to steal our traditions for their own amusement. It's really, really offensive.

[Lady]

Well, no. Lutherans have vestments and a liturgical calendar and don't believe in a strictly memorialist interpretation of Holy Communion. To the kind of evangelicals engaging in fake-Jewish stuff, those are Catholic things, and are either not understood or are considered heretical.

Edited to add that this is in reply to Lady.

I can see why they would think that but it's still a major headache for me.

[lilah]

I'm a reform Jew who got confirmed when I was 16. I think it's a ploy to keep teens at temple since plenty quit sunday school after their b'nai mitzvah.

I had to take classes with the rabbi and do a volunteer project (which was assisting with sunday school)

[FaustianSlip]

On the subject of confirmation, all the teens who went to the Reform synagogue in my town growing up had a confirmation ceremony. I always thought it was a bit odd. Not sure if it's something that has become more popular in synagogues - I have been out of the fold for some time.

I think this is primarily a Reform thing, adopted relatively late (I suspect as an attempt to keep kids from just dropping out of Jewish life post-bar/bat mitzvah, as often happens). So far as I know, my Conservative shul in the States didn't have them (at least, I never saw one happen during Shabbat services, and I attended almost every week), though according to Google, some Conservative synagogues have adopted the practice. All of my friends who were confirmed as kids are Reform, though.

[FaustianSlip]

And I just found a Wikipedia entry for Passover (Christian Holiday). What. The actual. Fuck.

[mockingbird]

One of my friends posted this on Facebook a few days ago:

iUrgYoSJ-Kc

Cause you know, the Jews are so stupid they don't understand their own rituals! :roll:

ETA: Summary if you don't want to watch it. The first half explains the story of Passover and the symbolism of the foods eaten at the Passover seder. Ok so far. Then it's all about YESHUA the sacrificial lamb!!11! and they go around interviewing Jewish people about why they place 3 matzohs in cloth. They claim Jews don't understand this and pick people who don't know its symbolism. Then they dismiss someone who says it's to symbolize Abraham, Isaac and Jacob because OBVIOUSLY this symbolizes the Holy Trinity.

[pookel]

Usually the first thing I ask Christians who claim to be celebrating a seder is whether they plan to drink actual wine, or grape juice. And if wine, how much.

I know that Passover is not wholly defined by wine (although when I was a kid, it sure felt like it!), but it's a pretty good way to tell which ones have no clue what an authentic seder is like.

[GeoBQn]

One of my friends posted this on Facebook a few days ago:

iUrgYoSJ-Kc

Cause you know, the Jews are so stupid they don't understand their own rituals! :roll:

ETA: Summary if you don't want to watch it. The first half explains the story of Passover and the symbolism of the foods eaten at the Passover seder. Ok so far. Then it's all about YESHUA the sacrificial lamb!!11! and they go around interviewing Jewish people about why they place 3 matzohs in cloth. They claim Jews don't understand this and pick people who don't know its symbolism. Then they dismiss someone who says it's to symbolize Abraham, Isaac and Jacob because OBVIOUSLY this symbolizes the Holy Trinity.

The 3 matzot can represent the 3 patriarchs, the priestly class system (Cohen, Levi, Israeli), time (past, present, future). There's a ton of different interpretations. That is another way of spotting the fake seder--claiming that each symbolic element represents exactly one thing.

[maybeizfundie]

I have seen something that was taken from the Bar Barakah tradition in Judaism. I think that part of this may be that there is a pretty big swath of evangelical Christianity that is very, very new and doesn't actually have milestone traditions like this. No infant baptism, and thus no confirmation. No real rite of passage to speak of.

The one I saw, I'm not sure why they used the Jewish term for it. It consisted of each parent speaking a blessing to the child, and then the parent or parents presenting the child to the congregation as a fully participatory member with all the rights and responsibilities that go with it.

[Hestia]

Nine years ago as a fundie I had a bat mitzvah. It was a thing at least a decade and a half ago. I can't even look at the photos now, they make me feel so embarrassed. Ugh.

[GeoBQn]

There is no "bar barakah" tradition in Judaism. That term is entirely used by Christians who concoct their own version of a bar mitzvah ceremony. It isn't even a good way of spelling--the accepted transliteration for the Hebrew word "blessing" is brucha/bracha/brakha, or pretty much anything indicating that the word contains a uvular fricative sound, not a "k" sound. The first time I saw the term "bar barakah" written out, I had no fucking clue what it meant and thought that they were trying to say "son of lightning" ("barak" in Hebrew).