Duggars are "praying" about adoption (MERGED)

[PennySycamore]

Au contraire m'cheri. Behold: snowflake adoptions! nightlight.org/snowflake-embryo-adoption/

Thanks for the update, Chaotic Life. I just hadn't heard that much more about it.

[patsymae]

"15 year olds rarely place their babies for adoption. They are typicall of the persuaion that they want someone to LOVE them. The average woman who places her baby for adoption is white, middle class and looking towards college. Those women are NOT interested in a family such as the Duggars to take their child. The teens who idolize the Duggars are more likely to think that having and keeping the baby will give them the family they long for *just like the Duggars."

While that's true nationally, there are plenty of evengelical churches that facilitate adoption between young "sinners" in their congregations and married members of their churches. They convince the girl that the only way to redeem herself is to give her child to a "godly couple." Some of them run "homes" where the purpose is to isolate and punish the girl, keep her totally unaware of any resources she may have, and match her with a potential adoptive family early, so that she is indoctrinated to consider herself merely the vessel chosen by the Lord to provide a baby for douchbags like the Duggars or Kirk Cameron and Chelsea Noble. Alas, I think it will be very easy for the Duggars to acquire a child either through church circles or, alas, maybe even China. I feel sorry for the kid already.

[chaotic life]

They absolutely cannot adopt from China. They would need a special needs approval, a family size waiver and unless they can document $230K in annual salary an income waiver to get approval to adopt from China. Given their family size, it's HIGHLY unlikely China would give them an income waiver. Given they have NO experience in adoption, it's unlikely China would give them the other two waivers either. China is NOT easy to adopt from anymore. It's easier than trying to adopt from South Korea, yes, but it's VERY hard to adopt from China as a large family now.

I'm aware of Fundie unwed mothers homes. I just really don't think it would be as easy for them to get a birthmother to choose them as people here are claiming. I don't think it's impossible, but I know a LOT about birthmothers from perssonal experience and I think it would be VERY hard, even in those circles, to get a teen to allow them to adopt her child. I think it would take extensive coercision that would become obvious and likely would end up with extremely BAD publicity by the time it was said and done. Since I can clearly see the Gothard hedging in Michelle's declaration, and since I know they did this before when Anna was pregnant with Michael, I just don't believe the Duggars would put forth the serious effort it would take to do a domestic infant adoption. It would require extensive and deliberate effort and they would only be interested in a situatio where they could say the child was just dropped off with them and this PROVED this was really GOD telling them to do it.

Gothardites have been saying for two decades that of course they are not opposed to adoption and considering it. However, almost all Gothardites who say that clarify that they would have go be absolutely certain that was what God was saying, and when you actually ask them to explain how they would be certain, they will explain that God would have to bring the child to them by some divine intervention that did not require their seeking it out. Since I know that is the definition behind the VERY language Michelle is using now for other Gothardites, I believe that is the definition that is really behind her statement. She's VERY good at spinning her beliefs to look sane and mainstream when they are crazy Gothard behind closed doors. I don't see this as any different, and I think it would require deliberate effort for them to adopt. I don't believe they would ever actually puth forth deliberate effort to adopt.

[patsymae]

They absolutely cannot adopt from China. They would need a special needs approval, a family size waiver and unless they can document $230K in annual salary an income waiver to get approval to adopt from China. Given their family size, it's HIGHLY unlikely China would give them an income waiver. Given they have NO experience in adoption, it's unlikely China would give them the other two waivers either. China is NOT easy to adopt from anymore. It's easier than trying to adopt from South Korea, yes, but it's VERY hard to adopt from China as a large family now.

I'm aware of Fundie unwed mothers homes. I just really don't think it would be as easy for them to get a birthmother to choose them as people here are claiming. I don't think it's impossible, but I know a LOT about birthmothers from perssonal experience and I think it would be VERY hard, even in those circles, to get a teen to allow them to adopt her child. I think it would take extensive coercision that would become obvious and likely would end up with extremely BAD publicity by the time it was said and done. Since I can clearly see the Gothard hedging in Michelle's declaration, and since I know they did this before when Anna was pregnant with Michael, I just don't believe the Duggars would put forth the serious effort it would take to do a domestic infant adoption. It would require extensive and deliberate effort and they would only be interested in a situatio where they could say the child was just dropped off with them and this PROVED this was really GOD telling them to do it.

Gothardites have been saying for two decades that of course they are not opposed to adoption and considering it. However, almost all Gothardites who say that clarify that they would have go be absolutely certain that was what God was saying, and when you actually ask them to explain how they would be certain, they will explain that God would have to bring the child to them by some divine intervention that did not require their seeking it out. Since I know that is the definition behind the VERY language Michelle is using now for other Gothardites, I believe that is the definition that is really behind her statement. She's VERY good at spinning her beliefs to look sane and mainstream when they are crazy Gothard behind closed doors. I don't see this as any different, and I think it would require deliberate effort for them to adopt. I don't believe they would ever actually puth forth deliberate effort to adopt.

I sure hope that's true. But I see these blog posts here from other truly vile sacks of fundamentalist slime who are clearly not financially or mentally capable of taking care of children, and yet they seem to be collecting international "orphans," including Chinese. So it would seem that where there is enough money/missionary fervor involved, people who want a child can get one. I will love it if the Duggars can't adopt.

[gustava]

Guess she missed the Howlerfest in the capsule hotel in Japan and didn't notice that one of twins had 11 year old James on a leash in Tiananmen Square.

Do you suppose that the leash was a joke, or that James couldn't be trusted not to dart off/run away/get lost?

[ThatSnark]

I'm still putting my money on the Duggars adopting from a connection through a Christian crisis pregnancy center. These places are all over the South as a "moral alternative" to abortion, and function as de facto private adoption agencies. They put some gospel into the expectant mother, find her a good Christian family for her little blessing, and bing-bang, problem solved. Baby collectors get another baby and the new mom is guilted into never going through that again without a proper headship.

It's also a way to go through adoption without a professional home study, which a lot of these spankin' families would not pass.

[ILoveJellybeans]

They talked about the Duggars on the Talk today. Sara said after watching the show she was converted to liking them because all the kids were more well behaved than her two

Her two children must be awful :o They run wild and mess with things they cant have, didnt they once ride bikes in a store? They are rude and pull faces. They sneaked snacks into meals as they dont like anything that doesnt taste like crap. They run across the table in dirty feet, hide to escape doing school work, run up and down the stairs at the age of two (Seriously Michelle, put a gate up, I show more concern for a toddler falling down those stairs than you do)

What are Sara's children doing? Armed robbery? Sacraficing the cat to Satan? Setting the house on fire?

There is only one family I know who have worse behaved kids than the Duggars, and I am convinced that its only because the Duggars have a huge house so you cant see all of the kids running wild at once and the mess is more spread out that they dont seem as bad.

[nokidsmom]

Having heard plenty of how the Duggar kids run rampant in the house, there's a major accident with one of them just waiting to happen. I am sure there have been more minor ones that we don't know about, but I am bit concerned that one day one of them is going to be rushed to the ER wtih a serious injury.

[ljohnson2006]

The Duggars can pray about adopting precious baby 22 all they want. (Yeah, I count J'Caleb in the line up). It'll never happen. Gothardism is against adoption. Either J'Chelle will get pregnant again, and we'll see another Jubilee type scanario, or J'Chelle will enjoy the 19 healthy children, and soon to be 3 grandchildren that she already has, and be happy for once in her life. Her next attempt to have a baby will kill her.

[JenniferJuniper]

Either J'Chelle will get pregnant again, and we'll see another Jubilee type scanario, or J'Chelle will enjoy the 19 healthy children, and soon to be 3 grandchildren that she already has, and be happy for once in her life. Her next attempt to have a baby will kill her.

There's another more likely scenario. She never gets pregnant again and spends her life pining over her lost number 20, never enjoying the 19 healthy children and 3 grandchildren she already has.

[nolongerIFBx]

Recently several rightwing pundits? whack jobs? asshats? have said that anything other than heterosexually married biological families are second-rate. Ralph Reed said this on Meet the Press on Sunday and, IIRC, the head of the National Organization for Marriage said this a week or two earlier. Really smart, isn't it, to insult adoptive families right before gay marriage comes up before the Supreme Court when Chief Justice Roberts and his wife are adoptive parents.

MamaJunebug, Russia has closed adoptions to foreigners. I haven't heard anything about China, though, and I think I would have since my daughter and son-in-law have adopted from China and want to again at some point. I know they were going to inquire about a little boy with albinism that was in the orphanage who was friends with the little girl they adopted. They hope that this child has already been adopted. It does take several years for adoptions to go through normally.

China no longer allows singles to adopt.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think Michelle will adopt, but not a human. I can totally see her as a crazy cat lady after all of the kids have grown up.

Or she is planning to squash the kids ambitions so much that they are going to be dependent on her for ever and ever and ever and never leave her. Maybe she hopes that by restricting them so much, theyre never ever going to be adults.

[Rainytown]

I'm still putting my money on the Duggars adopting from a connection through a Christian crisis pregnancy center.

Let's hope I broke the link successfully...

specialdelivery.org

The "crisis pregnancy center" is about five miles from our house. It has also made the news: Several years ago, a young couple was pulled over for speeding in the area. They were late to a pregnancy termination appointment. When the cop in question found out where they were going, he handcuffed them, put them in the back of his car, and drove them to Special Delivery without their consent or permission.

IIRC, the cop in question lost his job and the pregnant teen ended up with a settlement from the police department.

[nolongerIFBx]

It is a thing. I'm not sure what the requirements for it are, but I'd be willing to bet that Michelle would not qualify due to age and the fact that she already has so many bio kids. Also, in some cases the biological "parents" of the embryos get to choose who will receive them, and then the Duggars would run into the same problems that they'd face with infant adoption.

While some fresher eggs might give her a better chance of a viable pregnancy, I think Michelle's biggest problem is the condition of her uterus. With 4 c-sections, plus 21? implantations, it's got to be a mess in there.

Actually their best bet as anyone can "adopt" embryos because it isn't an adoption. It is a property transfer. And you can transfer it to anyone you wish. Most people who "donate" and "adopt" do so through a legal property transfer contract and they can include conditions there, but no home inspections, number of children, etc. is required by law, only by those involved in the transaction. It is much safer than adoption because the biological parent can't demand their child back as legally it isn't and never was their child. The child belongs to the woman whose womb it emerges from. It is also much less expensive than adoption. Snowflakes is still around as well as several other agencies (most of which do require home studies) or you can find each other and at that time establish conditions. Demand is much higher than supply, but prospective "adopters" may often not meet the qualifications that the "donors" are looking for and vice versa. And this "loving, empty uterus" would love to have one.

[ILoveJellybeans]

The problem with Michelle adopting embryos is that her uterus is so worn out she cant carry a pregnancy to term and the embryo would likely be miscarried. She would need a surrogate to carry this adopted embryo as well for it to have any chance of survival, but then she wouldnt be able to say that she delivered every one of them (and who would volunteer to bring a child into a life of neglect?). Or she could keep it in the freezer with the tator tots and say it still counts as life begins at conception.

[Inky]

I can't see her ever using a surrogate. Her identity is that of a pregnant, or breastfeeding mother, and there's no question that she loves every minute of it.

[lilwriter85]

Having heard plenty of how the Duggar kids run rampant in the house, there's a major accident with one of them just waiting to happen. I am sure there have been more minor ones that we don't know about, but I am bit concerned that one day one of them is going to be rushed to the ER wtih a serious injury.

I also have concerns that a serious accident will happen to one of the kids. One boy did fall through a trap door at a church and he had injuries. I wouldn't be surprised if 10 to 15 years from now one of the Duggar kids has a spinal cord injury or has lost a limb.

[gustava]

I also have concerns that a serious accident will happen to one of the kids. One boy did fall through a trap door at a church and he had injuries. I wouldn't be surprised if 10 to 15 years from now one of the Duggar kids has a spinal cord injury or has lost a limb.

One of the little girls got her head stuck in the stair rails. Michelle laughed and the child ran to her buddy mom.

[gustava]

Here's the applicable Arkansas regulations regarding adoption. Go to p 37+ for home study info. It is quite intrusive. I don't see J Boob and Mullet allowing that level of questioning of their family. Granted, an agency might "skip a few steps" but then people like us would be all over them like flies on rice!

http://www.arkansas.gov/childcare/licen ... encies.pdf

[valsa]

China no longer allows singles to adopt.

They actually recently started allowing singles to adopt again, but only for "Special Focus" children (kids whose special needs are more severe than the normal special needs kids) Basically, if you want a child with a corrected cleft lip or repaired minor heart issue, you have to be married. If you're willing to adopt a child with vision impairment, hard of hearing, with multiple limb malformity, severely delayed, etc, you can adopt as a single parent.

[Bloo]

As far as permanently infantilizing her children, as someone mentioned above, I wouldn't be surprised if Michelle and Jim Bob did that with Josie, at least to an extent. Does anyone know if she's potty trained yet? Being so premature, chances are better than not that she's developmentally delayed in some way. Children with developmental delays often have a wonderful chance of "catching up" if their parents intervene early and make use of therapies and preschools, but we all know that isn't going to happen with poor Josie. It would be all too easy for Michelle and Jim Bob to neglect her into a permanent childlike state if she indeed has delays.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

As far as permanently infantilizing her children, as someone mentioned above, I wouldn't be surprised if Michelle and Jim Bob did that with Josie, at least to an extent. Does anyone know if she's potty trained yet? Being so premature, chances are better than not that she's developmentally delayed in some way. Children with developmental delays often have a wonderful chance of "catching up" if their parents intervene early and make use of therapies and preschools, but we all know that isn't going to happen with poor Josie. It would be all too easy for Michelle and Jim Bob to neglect her into a permanent childlike state if she indeed has delays.

That would be especially bad for Josie when she's Jana's age and her parents are in their 60s. With Michelle's numerous pregnancies adding to a shorter life expectancy and both of her parents eating habits being anything but healthy, I don't see either of them doing well at that age. If Josie becomes a J'slave caring for her parents after not being allowed to grow up, she's going to have a hard time transitioning.

I hope one of her sisters steals her away if they get married.

[chaotic life]

That link is requirements to become foster parents in Arkansas. There's a family size limit of 8 children in the home, but I don't know if that applies to foster-adopt on just straight fostercare. I DO know the bedroom sizes AND the sleeping arrangements will apply for foster-adoption and thus why the Duggars would NEVER be approved for a foster-adopt situation.

However, Arkansas private adoptions have far less requirements to them. However, they WILL still require similiar sleeping arrangements, at the very least children having their own beds and not be sharing bedrooms with adult siblings.

[DifferentGurl]

That would be especially bad for Josie when she's Jana's age and her parents are in their 60s. With Michelle's numerous pregnancies adding to a shorter life expectancy and both of her parents eating habits being anything but healthy, I don't see either of them doing well at that age. If Josie becomes a J'slave caring for her parents after not being allowed to grow up, she's going to have a hard time transitioning.

I hope one of her sisters steals her away if they get married.

As someone who once had severe autism ( obviously, I still have autism, but I'm more high functioning ), I agree that children with developmental delays can "catch up" if the parents intervene early enough and make use of the numerous therapies and services. My parents did that when I was little and I'm now going to college for my associates in IT ( and I'm getting A's and B's! ). I don't need to use the special needs help at the college, but my family and I are willing to use it if I ever need it.

The difference between my parents and the Duggars is that my parents weren't in denial when I was diagnosed. They knew something was wrong with me. They also knew that it would be better if I got the help and potentially "catch up" so I could grow up to be independent ( with needing some extra help ) than not doing anything to help me and take care of me for the rest of my life. I wasn't always going to be a little girl. I was going to grow up, and it was going to be hard to take care of the adult me. This is especially true since I was prone to hitting when I was little. If I were to hit them now as an adult, I'd kill them. Heck! I was able to knock down my mom when I was four! Just imagine what damage I'd do as an adult.

The Duggars are in denial, that's for sure. They think that just because she will develop more slowly that they don't need to take advantage of any services that would help her. They think that because she will eventually get to her milestones, though at a slower pace, that she doesn't need any help. They don't realize that extra help could really help her in the future, or even help her to develop at a "faster" pace.

The Duggars pretty much want to take the short-term easy route with Josie instead of the long-term hard route.

[PennySycamore]

They actually recently started allowing singles to adopt again, but only for "Special Focus" children (kids whose special needs are more severe than the normal special needs kids) Basically, if you want a child with a corrected cleft lip or repaired minor heart issue, you have to be married. If you're willing to adopt a child with vision impairment, hard of hearing, with multiple limb malformity, severely delayed, etc, you can adopt as a single parent.

valsa, thanks for the update. My granddaughter was considered special needs due to her albinism. The albinism may have affected her vision although she is too young to determine to what extent. Her eyes are, of course, very sensitive to light and she does have nystagmus (involuntary eye movement.) I don't think she's be considered Special Focus, though.

Btw, the director of her orphanage grew up there. He has fused fingers which probably was why he was abandoned at birth.