Lori Alexander: Everybody should farm

[lagenialester]

Also what about the simple fact that we just don't have enough LAND for everyone to live on farms? When I lived in Chicago, I was in a high-rise apartment on the 20th floor. There were at least 15 other apartments (studio to three bedrooms) on my floor and the building was 24 stories high. Now how could we possibly find enough land for all of these people to have their own farms?

[lilwriter85]

Also what about the simple fact that we just don't have enough LAND for everyone to live on farms? When I lived in Chicago, I was in a high-rise apartment on the 20th floor. There were at least 15 other apartments (studio to three bedrooms) on my floor and the building was 24 stories high. Now how could we possibly find enough land for all of these people to have their own farms?

I agree with this. Another fact that Lori ignores is that there is biological time limits on arable land.

[rward]

She is so stooooopid!

I have a tiny city yard. Last year, I decided to dig it all up and plant a garden. Here's what I learned as a first time urban gardener:

1. I don't have enough room to provide food for the 3 of us for a year. Not possible. It was nice to make my own dilly beans and stewed tomatoes for red sauce, but I couldn't live off it even by myself.

2. Gardening is HARD! It takes time, it's backbreaking work, you have to constantly monitor it, water it, weed it. Everything was trying to kill my garden, from the sun to storms to slugs to rabbits.

3. Gardening takes time to learn. Last year's garden was something of a disaster. I had way too many plants spaced way too close together. Half my garden was lettuce, because we like salads, but they all matured at once and no 3 people could eat that much salad before it all went to seed, so that was a waste. Nobody on Earth needs 12 pumpkins all at once. (You can't can pumpkin without a pressure canner.) I have different plans this year, but I'm sure it'll be at least another few summers before I have a decent garden.

4. Canning is awesome- but you have to spend hours in front of a hot stove in July and August, when it's miserably hot outside. Also, I had a hard enough time keeping a dog away from all that boiling water, I can't imagine trying to corral multiple small children while canning.

Overall, I like gardening, but I can totally see why other people would hate it, resent it, go nuts trying to keep up with it. Fortunately, we have these things called grocery stores.

[Ellimenopy]

The other thing that winds me up about this post is the 'kids working on the farm is good for them' bit. Why does child labour always seem to get a pass when it comes to farm work? You wouldn't take your kids to your office and get them to do the filling. We no longer give children jobs minding factory machines. But farm life is seen as 'wholesome' in the same way as 'homemaking' so it's fine to get your kids to do your work for you. The reality is that farm work is hard and often dangerous. If your children have a genuine interest in agriculture, great, let them help out. But don't make it a compulsory life skill.

I think there's anything wrong with this. I would never give my son dangerous chores on the farm, but he probably will have regular chores. And we have another office job. I was filing library books at seven in our public school. I don't see much difference between doing that and filing paperwork as long as he's capable of it and still thinks it's "neat" to do grown-up work. Don't get me wrong, I would make sure he has time to play and be a silly kid. I feel like my husband had to grow up too fast on the farm. But it wasn't because he had chores, it was because his mother was very sick and his dad is ... not nurturing, to put it mildly.

[Jinger Jar]

My parents farmed, mostly soybeans and wheat with a small dairy herd. My mother's parents ran the dairy farm next door and raised hogs for local restaurants and meat markets. My dad's folks farmed hogs in Germany. I have cousins who still farm.

I know what goes into farming. I know exactly how backbreaking it is. I knew by the time I was in 4th grade that I was going to spend my life doing anything but farming, and I have not had a job in the 40 years since that's been as exhausting or dangerous as working on a farm. This includes working in a hot war zone and in a refugee camp during a cholera outbreak. I have nothing but respect farmers. Nothing.

So everybody should farm, huh? I'd be more than willing to wager that Lori and Ken wouldn't last a month. It would interfere with their blogging schedule for one thing. There's no time for pontificating to the world during a farrowing or a harvest. And Lori would have to think and act critically and independently. A farmer husband doesn't have the time or the energy (or probably the inclination) to do all of his wife's decision-making for her in addition to his own. And if he's got the time to do all of the domestic disciplining Ken does - and to blog about it afterwards - either the crops or the animals are suffering. And that means lost income, which no farmer can afford.

Lori's so full of dung I'm surprised her ass doesn't explode.

[SpeshulTaterTot]

Also what about the simple fact that we just don't have enough LAND for everyone to live on farms? When I lived in Chicago, I was in a high-rise apartment on the 20th floor. There were at least 15 other apartments (studio to three bedrooms) on my floor and the building was 24 stories high. Now how could we possibly find enough land for all of these people to have their own farms?

Especially if all these people go on to have at least 10 kids. There just isn't enough space.

[CrankyCatLady]

Overall, I like gardening, but I can totally see why other people would hate it, resent it, go nuts trying to keep up with it. Fortunately, we have these things called grocery stores.

I hate gardening. I hate bugs and getting sweaty and dirty and I hate weeding. A lot. I love the end product, but it's not worth it, for me, at least, to even attempt a garden. Farming sounds like pure hell. Sure, it looks idyllic, but no thank you.

[Cannelle]

I want a garden so badly I can practically taste it, but my back SUCKS. When I have a flare-up, I can't walk (and even when I'm not currently flaring, I have days where I *really* have to watch everything about how I move, and often I can't bend and move in certain ways at all during these times, lest I throw it out completely), and it would absolutely kill me for everything in the garden to wither, die, and/or rot because I can't get to it in time. Last flare up, it took a full week of physical therapy and way more pain meds than I usually take in order for me to be able to sit long enough to eat. Yes, just sitting upright took a shitload of work, and after more than 30 minutes, it started hurting BADLY again. So no, Lori, not everyone can farm. Fuck right off, 'kay?

[Wolfie]

Yeah, the work thing makes me KNOW that it's not for everybody. I teach full time and have a very small farm that takes up a good portion of the rest of my time. It barely breaks even.

[Jenny]

I hate gardening. I hate bugs and getting sweaty and dirty and I hate weeding. A lot. I love the end product, but it's not worth it, for me, at least, to even attempt a garden. Farming sounds like pure hell. Sure, it looks idyllic, but no thank you.

Me too.

Although, I did grow cherry tomatoes in Topsey-Turveys last year. It was kind of a pain ( remembering to water them; finding someone to water them when I went out of town, etc) and not really cost effective. I'm not planning to try again.

[Rosa]

Cannelle, you should check out some of the books on garden design for disabled people - a LOT of it is reducing bending - and the book Resilient Gardening. The writer of that one (who goes on some...interesting...tangents) has a bad back and talks a lot about how she designs her (very, very large) garden/truck farm to make it possible for her to not injure herself, and not lose the whole crop because she had a medical or personal emergency at a critical moment.

[Minerva]

Does this mean Lori is about to move to the country and buy a farm, or are we just seeing more of her "do as I say, not as I do" attitude? Not that it would hurt her to try. That woman has way too much time on her hands, and far too little sympathy for people who actually have to work to keep themselves afloat.

[Wolfie]

Does anybody want to tell my dominiques to go in to their shelter NOW so I can take a shower, some nyquil and climb into bed? It's darker outside, maybe they've gone in finally, they were out in their run a few minutes ago.

[debrand]

If she spent all the time needed to farm, when would she have enough time to make shoes or clothes or furniture? People lived in a community for a reason. Yes, farmer grew the food but other people made the pots or wove the cloth. All these jobs took time and labor. People didn't just decided, hey farm life is great but let's form cities. There were advantages to people specializing in certain work and being supported in that work. No one can do everything, at least not well. Does she want people to stop becoming doctors too so that potential students stay on the farm instead of going to school?

[debrand]

Does anybody want to tell my dominiques to go in to their shelter NOW so I can take a shower, some nyquil and climb into bed? It's darker outside, maybe they've gone in finally, they were out in their run a few minutes ago.

I had Buff Orpington's at one time. Hopefully, I will own some more when I move.

[SoybeanQueen]

Farmer here (okay, okay: farmer's wife). Lori is a frickin' idiot. Farming sucks. It's backbreaking work, you never get to see your family, and unless you have somebody with a lot of experience giving you good investment advice, you will overspend and lose everything. Even with a lot of experience you can still lose everything. It's NOT for everybody.

Now, that being said, support your local farmers - it's important (but also an argument for a different thread). But don't move to the country because you want to save money. That's a really stupid idea.

We farm, too, and I agree with what you said. It's not easy at all. People have this image of farming being such simple work. You have to know a great about many topics - soils, chemistry, agronomy, business, weather, machinery, human resources.... We don't have livestock other than a few barn cats, bird dogs and an annoying goose, but animals require a whole other set of skills. It's almost insulting when people assume they can just move to the country and do what we do. Our farm has been a work in progress since the 1960s when my father in law bought his first piece of land.

Most of all, you have to be willing to take some risks and be pretty brave, because, as you said, even when you know what you're doing, you can lose a lot of money in a hurry. My father in law was one of the first in our area to try out no-till farming. Even the state Extension agronomists told him he was nuts, it would never work here. Luckily it did. If it hadn't, surviving the 1980s would have been a lot harder.

Also, may I please say to all of the people who want to get away from the city - we like it here *because* it's quiet and there's not a Target in our yard. Don't move here, complain that it smells like cows, and demand a new shopping center right down the previously quiet road.

[SoybeanQueen]

There were serious concerns on how it would affect the crops.

Kansas here, and same thing with the drought. There were no crops here by late summer. Our irrigation lakes were totally dry. Not just out of water dry, but you could walk across the whole thing and there was grass growing on the lake bed dry. Even in other years where we pumped all of the water down, you couldn't walk across the lake because you'd sink in several feet of mud. I heard from several older farmers that this was the worst drought summer they had seen in their lifetime.

ETA: My kids will likely work on the farm. It's a family farm. They're part of the family. They'll also get paid for doing work that would otherwise be done by a paid employee, and they'll be able to list their skills and work experience on job applications, college applications, etc. If they'd rather go into town and work at Subway, that's fine, too. My nephews have found, though, that the muscles developed from throwing seed bags all summer are superior to those developed while making sandwiches. And the ladies, they like the muscles....

[wild little fox]

There are so many ways to garden. Earth boxes (self watering), drip irrigation, mulching, square foot, intensive, "lasagna" gardening, Ruth Stout's method.... IOW there is more than one way to do things :)

As for Lori, she has NO idea what she is talking about and it does not surprise me one bit!

I have a farm, too. With the failing health if my parents and my struggles with mental stability, we have rented out the majority of our land. Some for cash and some for trade. I still have eight sheep, four wether goats, two equines, chickens, two Birder Collies, rabbit and barn cats. I have over 150 years of experience to draw from in my mother, aunt, and my retired veterinarian uncle. I grew up here. There are a million little things that just come naturally to me. Things that I do because one time in my childhood I saw an adult do it that way. I'm not saying neophytes cannot learn, but there is so much to learn when taking on a farm or homesteading.

[salex]

There are a million little things that just come naturally to me. Things that I do because one time in my childhood I saw an adult do it that way. I'm not saying neophytes cannot learn, but there is so much to learn when taking on a farm or homesteading

I see this in action from time to time. My husband and I decided to put in a suburban garden a few years ago-- while different from the gardens we had as kids, we knew what we were doing on our smaller plot. We had great results and large yields. Meanwhile, a friend with much more land gets far less (and some years zero) yields. Part of it is likely that he has no idea how to manage basic gardening issues--how to fend off deer, garden plot placement, how to supplement the soil-- that we either knew or followed up on after research. The other part is that serious gardening, certainly at first as you establish the soil/beds, required continued effort--which he seems unable or unwilling to put forth.

[SamuraiKatz]

Lori ah there are no words for her cookie cutter solutions for all of life's woes. :roll:

[rward]

I see this in action from time to time. My husband and I decided to put in a suburban garden a few years ago-- while different from the gardens we had as kids, we knew what we were doing on our smaller plot. We had great results and large yields. Meanwhile, a friend with much more land gets far less (and some years zero) yields. Part of it is likely that he has no idea how to manage basic gardening issues--how to fend off deer, garden plot placement, how to supplement the soil-- that we either knew or followed up on after research. The other part is that serious gardening, certainly at first as you establish the soil/beds, required continued effort--which he seems unable or unwilling to put forth.

I had no more trouble with rabbits once I started having my dog go through my garden 5 times a day. The slugs were another story. Beer came highly recommended, but I guess these slugs wanted a decent IPA and not Budweiser.

[Wolfie]

I see this in action from time to time. My husband and I decided to put in a suburban garden a few years ago-- while different from the gardens we had as kids, we knew what we were doing on our smaller plot. We had great results and large yields. Meanwhile, a friend with much more land gets far less (and some years zero) yields. Part of it is likely that he has no idea how to manage basic gardening issues--how to fend off deer, garden plot placement, how to supplement the soil-- that we either knew or followed up on after research. The other part is that serious gardening, certainly at first as you establish the soil/beds, required continued effort--which he seems unable or unwilling to put forth.

I agree with all of this, especially the bolded. I just moved to my house two years ago, but every year I'm working on my soil and the garden is getting better each year, I usually expect it takes 3-4 years to get it where I want it.

[debrand]

I agree with all of this, especially the bolded. I just moved to my house two years ago, but every year I'm working on my soil and the garden is getting better each year, I usually expect it takes 3-4 years to get it where I want it.

As a gardener failure I have to ask, what do you do to your soil?

Lori might be thinking of a hobby farm where an individual has a few animals, a garden and some fruit trees. My brother has a set up with a pig and a garden but he would never call himself a farmer. I would love a hobby farm but over the years I have discovered that I am pretty lazy.

[Wolfie]

As a gardener failure I have to ask, what do you do to your soil?

Lori might be thinking of a hobby farm where an individual has a few animals, a garden and some fruit trees. My brother has a set up with a pig and a garden but he would never call himself a farmer. I would love a hobby farm but over the years I have discovered that I am pretty lazy.

Lots of compost, and then more compost. I have animals so I can use some of my own composted manure, and I add more from the store. It has worked in previous houses. I also supplement with organic fertilizer, liquid kelp and sometimes compost tea once I have the plants in the ground. (I can buy the compost tea at a local nursery)

[jenny_islander]

I don't farm, but I grow vegetables in yard. I've been lucky in that I live in a house that has a yard. Less than 25% of my yard gets enough sun during our 60 day growing season to really grow anything. Potatoes, onion, chard, kale, beets, and lettuce do not last all year. The salmon we caught last summer doesn't last all year, and if it did, I wouldn't have anywhere to store all that food.

Most people in my city don't have the space to garden. Those that do fight the short growing season, building greenhouses and cold frames. There is also the fact that much of our soil is thin, rocky, acidic and sandy. It also varies greatly from lot to lot. There could be permafrost across the street from perfectly good soil. Temperatures can vary by several degrees within town.

Lori is stupid if she thinks that everyone in the world could just spread out and plant food. Doesn't she know how many people there are? Does she know how many acres of land it takes to produce food for a family?

http://www.treehugger.com/green-food/in ... -four.html

How do people possibly believe that everyone in the world would fit into Jacksonville FL? Do they not have access to Google?

According to Alaska Cooperative Extension, there are millions of acres of unexploited farmland in Alaska. But it's land that is currently watershed for rivers that support important fisheries, or it's timberland, or it's completely roadless. And it could never be made commercial without huge subsidies. And it's a bug-infested hell in the summer and killing cold in the winter.

Lori can break her back trying to grow enough potatoes and brassicas in 60 days to live on for the other 305. Me, I just went shopping.

ETA: I live in the Banana Belt of Alaska. People are preparing for planting season, which is still weeks away, by going down to the beaches and shoveling up totes full of smelly dead kelp. These are people who turn their heads and spit when anybody says the word "ecological." But bags of fertilizer from the garden store cost money.