Intervention to get J'Uterus Preggers?

[ILoveJellybeans]

Michelle only likes babies though. If she adopted an older kid she wouldnt get the "pleasure" she usually gets out of being pregnant and having newborns. She likes fetuses and babies under 6 months old.

[skeptifem]

From my non-medical understanding, in addition to the c-section scars the placenta scars the uterus where it is attached so that further placentas can't attach in that same location (I'm not finding the citation for this at the moment, sorry)

That has never been my understanding. I spent a good two years researching pregnancy issues to investigate the natural birth movement, and I have about 5 years of health care experience. I don't know how it would be possible for michelle to have 20 children if that were true- the placenta is a pretty hefty organ. I doubt you could lay 20 placentas over the inside of a uterus without overlapping them (even one that is full term). I know the world record holder for most children had at least 30.

Women who have had more than one child (multiparas) may have more of some types of problems than women on their first child (primiparas), but I have never seen any evidence of the risks increasing with subsequent pregnancies. Problems with the uterus often become apparent during the c-section as well- such as minor ruptures from previous pregnancies. Seems to me like she is in pretty good shape- especially when you consider how many times she has had a VBAC.

It just sorta stinks of misogynist ideas about vaginas/boobs/figures being "worn out" from sex or having children.

[skeptifem]

My grandma had a hysterectomy due to prolapsed uterus a few years back. She had eight pregnancies, no twins, and only her last was a cesarean.

My Grandma explained this as, "my uterus fell out of my vagina!" Although I'm pretty sure that's not, the technical description. She's always said it was because of all her pregnancies.

The mayo clinic lists a lot of things as risk factors for uterine prolapse:

One or more pregnancies and vaginal births

Giving birth to a large baby

Increasing age

Frequent heavy lifting

Chronic coughing

Prior pelvic surgery

Frequent straining during bowel movements

Genetic predisposition to weakness in connective tissue

Being Hispanic or white

It seems like it can happen for a variety of reasons.

Bladders, urethras, and colons can prolapse too. good times.

[19 dogs and counting]

Does anybody have any more information on why Gothard is against adoption? I remember on one episode of 19kids they were in Ecuador at an orphanage and Jim Bob said something about his kids wanting to adopt but it was difficult r/t government regulations.

[Ralar]

But they'd have almost no chance of carrying to term! Which family, even fundie family, would agree to that?

Fundy Husband: We've got to have more blessings. Our quiver is only half-full.

Fundy Wife: OK Sweet Headship, but we've been having sweet, sweet, fellowship every night and still no blessings

FH: Surely IVF will give us more blessings

FW: Will you let me deliver the blessings with medical doctors if there are a bunch of blessings in my womb?

FH: I guess so.

Several months later, FW is octo-pregnant, and there are 4 leftover embryos.

FW: Sweet headship, what are we to do with the yet-to-be-implanted children. We certainly can't have a funeral for our kids that haven't even been implanted yet. Can we?

FH: I have an idea. Maybe we can give the kids to Michelle and Kelley. They've each had so many pregnancies it is unlikely either of them will live to raise our blessings. The blessings will probably die natural deaths before emerging from the clown cars. They'll be waiting in heaven for us with J'Caleb, Jubalee and Jeebus.

[Mama Mia]

The mayo clinic lists a lot of things as risk factors for uterine prolapse:

One or more pregnancies and vaginal births

Giving birth to a large baby

Increasing age

Frequent heavy lifting

Chronic coughing

Prior pelvic surgery

Frequent straining during bowel movements

Genetic predisposition to weakness in connective tissue

Being Hispanic or white

It seems like it can happen for a variety of reasons.

Bladders, urethras, and colons can prolapse too. good times.

Yeah, uterine prolapse is very, very common and can be life altering for women. Unfortunately the mesh repairs they started doing are even worse.

It's kind of horrible how all the bad stuff that generally happens at menopause and beyond is such a shock as you get older !

[Talitha Cumi]

No type of intervention is going to change the fact that Michelle's eggs are very elderly. At 46 she has less than a 1% chance of getting pregnant on her own. She could find a disreputable fertility doctor who would be willing to implant donor eggs using Boob's sperm (do wifely hand jobs meet with the approval of Gothard?), but given the condition of her uterus, the odds of that working out are very slim.

She can pine away as much as she likes, but Josie is going to be her last ever buddy.

I wonder if that means she'll actually mother Josie, rather than pass her to a sister mom. There's no more excuse of "well, I'm the new baby's buddy!"

(lol yeah right)

[Mama Mia]

I think the number of previous c-section scars would be the issue as far as being worn out. If I remember what little I've read on the subject correctly, the uterus can become very thin in the areas with the scars. More thinning increases the risk of rupture, which is incredibly dangerous for mother and baby.

As for adoption, I don't know how they would pull it off. Unlikely that the state would allow a placement because they'd want to see that the child would get plenty of parent attention. the number of kids plus age would likely rule them out for a lot of international adoptions. Private domestic.... they might be able to find an attorney who would work with them, but can you imagine how long it would take to find an expectant mother who wanted to place her child as the youngest of 20 and the only adoptee?

When we were looking into private adoption, we were told that the agency very rarely has expectant mothers who want their child placed in a large family. If they do, it's usually someone who grew up in large family herself and wants her child to have siblings. Seems unlikely to find someone from that size family, though!

She hasn't had that many c-sections, and it isn't like they pick a new place for each incision - so yes she would be at higher risk for a rupture due to having multiple c-sections, but certainly not a HUGE risk.

I believe I read here that the c-section with Josie was the vertical type, which is more likely to rupture - but I have no idea if that was just speculation.

I would think, given her age and repeated surgeries and pregnancies etc. she would be at a pretty high risk of a miscarriage - but I don't see why people are so insistent that there is no way she could ever carry another baby to term- it seems unlikely largely because she is probably not producing many viable eggs anymore, but it is certainly possible she could become pregnant and carry the baby to viability.

I think people forget about how many "change of life" babies there are, or later in life babies due to a new marriage.

[KO84]

It was my understanding that doctors do indeed choose different uterine incision site with each c/s precisely because of the "thinning" of the uterine wall. The sulerficial incision is likely to be in the same location for asthetic reasons but I thought they were more conservative with incising the uterus itself. How many c/s has she had? 4? I'd imagine scarring would cause some problems with implantation at that point, especially if viable eggs are infrequently produced. That said, I don't think it would be impossible for J'chelle to have another living child.

Also, prolapse sucks. It sucks hard. At least you can remove a prolapsed uterus though, rectal prolapse and the like is just awful.

[Coconut Flan]

Most of the current "change of life" babies these days are assisted fertility babies. Yes, there is the occasional completely unassisted successful pregnancy at 46 or 47, but there are also women who have gone through menopause at that age also. The odds are very much against Michelle, but it isn't impossible.

[Mama Mia]

Most of the current "change of life" babies these days are assisted fertility babies. Yes, there is the occasional completely unassisted successful pregnancy at 46 or 47, but there are also women who have gone through menopause at that age also. The odds are very much against Michelle, but it isn't impossible.

Yes, of course it is a slim possibility .... that is how those change of life babies used to occur ( and presumably still do ). Women in their mid-forties will think they are now "safe" because their periods are infrequent, or have even ceased for a few months and will stop using birth control... then discover, oops, no menopause yet !

I was a young mom and when my kids were growing up I was the same age as several of their friends siblings for exactly this reason.

[greek_chorus]

Well, if they did embryo adoption , they could use up someone else's "leftover blessings"

I'm pretty sure the sins of the father would have been transferred to the embryo and since Gothard is against embryos and IVF that's a pretty big sin to overcome. It must suck for an embryo to be a sinner before it has even had a chance to implant.

[JenniferJuniper]

Yes, of course it is a slim possibility .... that is how those change of life babies used to occur ( and presumably still do ). Women in their mid-forties will think they are now "safe" because their periods are infrequent, or have even ceased for a few months and will stop using birth control... then discover, oops, no menopause yet !

I was a young mom and when my kids were growing up I was the same age as several of their friends siblings for exactly this reason.

There's less than a 1% chance of this happening naturally with Michelle despite the prodigious fertility of her younger days, and with each passing month she is moving further into her late 40's which means those odds keep going down. If she did become pregnant, the odds of miscarriage are very high.

I think we're more likely to see an adoption in the future than we are another J-blessing. At this point it's probably safe to say the show now trumps the Gothard rules and they'll do anything to get that 20 and Counting title.