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Fundy sex how-to guide for newly married virgins


August

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http://www.theworld.org/2013/03/sex-gui ... odox-jews/

Link is SFW, it's the BBC

“We wanted to give people of a sense of, sort of, not only where to put their sexual organs, but where to put their arms and legs,†Ribner says. “If you don’t know this, you have never seen a movie, never read a book, how are you supposed to know what you do?â€

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Now, I may be biased because I had been exposed to mainstream culture, but I pretty much understood the concept as soon as I knew what the different sets of parts look like. The limbs take care of themselves.

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I actually think this is a good idea. I worked with a girl who was a strict Christadelphian. No TV, only approved books, skirt wearing variety. Talking about sex was severely frowned on. She firmly believed that sex was dirty, private parts were just that and was traumatised about even the idea of sex such that when she did finally get married she ran screaming from her husband on the wedding night.

It took intensive counselling and therapy before she could even consider having sex. All good now and they have two gorgeous kids. But she still can't forgive the way she was raised for scaring the bejebus out of her like that.

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Now, I may be biased because I had been exposed to mainstream culture, but I pretty much understood the concept as soon as I knew what the different sets of parts look like. The limbs take care of themselves.

But you probably spent quite some time working up to it, right? Working your way through the bases IYKWIM? Imagine if that first timid peck behind the bike shed was full on PIV sex?

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But you probably spent quite some time working up to it, right? Working your way through the bases IYKWIM? Imagine if that first timid peck behind the bike shed was full on PIV sex?

Well, yes. But the psychological effects of being scared of sex don't have any real root in not understanding the mechanics of it. Those kinds of hangups come from much deeper and more disturbed teachings. Just plain ole being inexperienced on your wedding night isn't as likely to be traumatizing as much as awkward. And if you think sex is sinful just knowing where to put your legs isn't going to help. I get what they're trying to do, I just don't think it will help who really needs the help.

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they obviously figure it out quickly see as how some of them are pregnant 2.5 seconds after marriage.

To be fair, it doesn't take a lot of skill to get pregnant. Just have to make sure the key's in the ignition, it doesn't matter how the car's steered.

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exactly. I don't see why a book is needed unless you actually are trying to do more with sex that procreate successfully which is seemingly all most fundies are interested in.

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Yeah, I think the mechanics of "tab A into slot B" are pretty self explanatory and they all figure it out quickly enough. The book that would be helpful is one that says basically everything we have(n't) told you about sex is wrong. It's not sinful or shameful, you can enjoy it, and you're not going to hell for having it. The last thing they need is a book that tells them where to put their arms and legs. For the love of god, let them have fun figuring it out. Don't give them one more thing to obsess over doing wrong!

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Ah, but this is a how-to book for ultra-Orthodox Jews, and while I am a lot more familiar with more liberal strains of Judaism, the idea of sex being fun isn't considered a bad thing in said more liberal realms. It's actually encouraged, and it's up to the man to give the women all the sex she wants. I admit I love that idea! So a book with tips on ideas about positions and stuff could be potentially very useful; I could be dead wrong (somebody let me know if I am!) but if *any* of the more sex-positive stuff (married only!) carries over into ultra-Orthodox sects then, yeah, this makes a lot more sense than in a fundie Christian worldview.

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to be fair, most fundamentalists don't seem to believe sex is bad or shameful inside of marriage between a man and women for procreating...it should be enjoyable and the bible says neither man nor women should deny the other sex-but it becomes sin outside of marriage and between members of the same sex.

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Good points. I stand corrected. So it would be kind of like a religious version of the Kama Sutra? If so, then I guess it could be kind of useful! :)

(Sorry, it's late here, and my mind is tearing off in directions it shouldn't)

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But you probably spent quite some time working up to it, right? Working your way through the bases IYKWIM? Imagine if that first timid peck behind the bike shed was full on PIV sex?

This is what I totally don't get about the "no touching before marriage" advocates. I guess one way to go is to hold off on intercourse and spend a few weeks/months going through the stages, but to tell the truth it took me 4 years of of pretty steady dating (a few different guys) to get to the point where I had sex with anyone. Those were a fun 4 years and I'm glad I didn't miss them. Knowing you aren't going to "do it" makes things a lot more interesting and creative.

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IME (not of sex but of formerly being part of a church that was conservative on sex before marriage) it's not that they didn't think that sex was a good thing within marriage, but the parameters of Acceptable Christian Sex were pretty narrow and I think from talking to friends who got married young and had that kind of church teaching, they couldn't enjoy sex because they were scared of 'breaking the rules' with regards to what's OK and what's not. Which is ridiculous because it's not like the Bible has a list of what's OK sex and what's not, and the Song of Songs talks about oral sex and all sorts (and it's not totally clear that it's all post-marital sex either). I agree with Ellimenopy, it's not being virgins that's the problem, it's the other damaging teaching.

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IME (not of sex but of formerly being part of a church that was conservative on sex before marriage) it's not that they didn't think that sex was a good thing within marriage, but the parameters of Acceptable Christian Sex were pretty narrow and I think from talking to friends who got married young and had that kind of church teaching, they couldn't enjoy sex because they were scared of 'breaking the rules' with regards to what's OK and what's not. Which is ridiculous because it's not like the Bible has a list of what's OK sex and what's not, and the Song of Songs talks about oral sex and all sorts (and it's not totally clear that it's all post-marital sex either). I agree with Ellimenopy, it's not being virgins that's the problem, it's the other damaging teaching.

Libby Anne has some interesting posts on how you can't just switch your sex drive on after years of being told it's bad.

I had a look inside on Amazon, and it has suggestions like "kiss, some people like to havetheir necks kissed", I think if I hadn't had Cosmoand was too downtrodden to speak up I'd have liked my partner to have this book.

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Let's be real, fundie sex is the same as sex during Henry VIII's quest for a son - lie still and pray for an heir

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When I was little, I thought sex worked like this: Penis goes into vagina. Sperm crawls out of penis and into the vagina. Penis is withdrawn from the vagina. The concept of thrusting until semen comes out had to be explained to me years later. Also, while I knew that I had 3 holes down there, it took me several months of touching myself before I figured out where my vaginal opening was. If you've never touched yourself, you could be clueless as to where exactly the penis is supposed to go. I can certainly see the need for such a guide.

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In sex ed at school, aged around 14, one of the anonymous question was about basic female anatomy (like, really basic).

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In sex ed at school, aged around 14, one of the anonymous question was about basic female anatomy (like, really basic).

Which is only helpful assuming you attended school and that your parents didn't refuse to sign the permission slip. I can guarantee you most homeschooling families don't include a sex ed until.

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Which is only helpful assuming you attended school and that your parents didn't refuse to sign the permission slip. I can guarantee you most homeschooling families don't include a sex ed until.

No, and that's the point, a boy from a family that wasn't intentionally keeping him in the dark had missed out on some pretty basic anatomy.

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I heard a story about someone who was super suprised when he first changed their newborn daughter's diaper, because she had a vagina. He expected her to look like a Barbie doll down there because his mother had told him that girls werent born with vaginas, it didnt grow til they were married. She said this so he wouldnt be curious about what it was like and want to have sex before he was married.

I think this counts as the weirdest sex ed related story I have heard...

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Ive heard of stories from friends who are counsellors and in health care - ie. a couple from a very conservative religious background who was unable to get pregnant after 1 year. Finally a physician asked 'how' they had sex and they very very embarrassingly replied that the male would get on top of the woman and move around (dry humping?!) and it was pleasureable and thats it. She showed them images of A into B and they HAD NO IDEA that that was what needed to be done. Their marriage had not been consummated yet.

Alternatively I have heard of women having to go for major surgery for internal damage because there was no knowledge by the husband of a 'front door' and he only used the 'back door'.

For people who have absolutely no access to appropriate information about their own bodies nor people willing, comfortable or able to give them that information this kind of tool is invaluable.

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Good points. I stand corrected. So it would be kind of like a religious version of the Kama Sutra? If so, then I guess it could be kind of useful! :)

I would think more basic than a Kama Sutra type book but a "tab A goes into slot B and here are a few variations on that and here are a few not-too-scary ideas for experimentation" sort of book. To be fair to a lot of fundies, I learned more about various sexual positions from books or online than I ever got anywhere else. I would guess that there are things that even the most liberal parents are hesitant to discuss with their offspring.

I only hope this book helps the people it's intended to help. I can't imagine being brought up with that level of ignorance, but I'm not going to assume the same people are stupid and refuse to learn. I wish them all joy. Seriously.

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