Truth in gender stereotypes?

[Sumeri]

I do think in my case it has a lot to do with first wave feminism. The parents of most of my friends were very involved in the equal rights movement. Some were professional women, but even those who weren't had more of a sense of - oh, power in their households that I don't see as often today? Does that make any sense?

[rward]

I have Ehlers Danlos syndrome. It is a genetic condition effecting collagen. You know, the stuff that holds your entire body together. My nephew also has it. He was diagnosed at 8, I was diagnosed at 27, after he was. His childhood and mine were exactly the same, so why did I get diagnosed so much later? My sister brought him to the doctor because he was terrible at sports. Hey, me, too! (See also: not walking into walls.) but I was a girl and girls don't like sports.

Early diagnosis does make a difference. I suffered physical and emotional damage he never will. So fuck anyone's girls this and boys that.

[Syd+Marky]

I think some gender steriotyping just happens with certain things.Our culture steriotypes.I grew up with steriotypes.Even though I have much more awareness now than I did growing up,there are things I can look back on, and ideas that guide my actions in ways I would not go if putting constant,cautious thought into every word and deed.

I always thought I would raise my children completely gender neutral,but I certainly didnt do it that way.I have one of each boy and girl.When my girl was little I bought her mostly so-called girly toys, like dolls and pretend makeup.When my boy came along I would not put him in pink even though I dressed my girl in blue and every other color.I did the toy thing with him too.I never bought him a doll.(he did go through a short phase of playing with his sisters dolls)

Another one I have a hard time shaking even though I know better,is my idea that males are way more into sex than women are.Sometimes if my hubby doesnt jump at the chance for sex (even tough this is once in a great while),I immediately assume theres something wrong or if hes mad at me,because it always takes a bit to realize he might just not be in the mood.

[swissbeauty]

I strongly disagree with gender stereotypes in general, and notably the housework one.

My father is excellent at cooking, cleaning and doing laundry. He picks up after himself, folds his clothes, keeps organized and clean. Why? BECAUSE IT'S NOT FUCKING COMPLICATED. Any person with a shred of self-discipline can do it.

[MrPopularSentiment]

Moms should get some time off right after giving birth because it's a pretty traumatic experience for most people. That said, most women are ready to get back to work within 2-3 weeks, and some do it within a couple of days. There's no reason why they should have to wait until baby is weaned before there's a switch off - especially since many women (especially in the US) simply do not have that luxury. There are many women who successfully breastfeed while working in two income families, so there's no reason why they can't successfully breastfeed while working in single income families.

I think that the crucial issue is whether or not the family has made a commitment to splitting parenting equitably. PhD in Parenting did a post about this somewhat recently: http://www.phdinparenting.com/blog/2013 ... sible.html

Now, in my family, my husband and I split parenting very evenly. I'm a SAHP, but my husband is home from work at 2pm and will generally be the primary parent from then until after dinner, around 6pm - at which point our son likes to watch a movie to wind down before his bedtime at 7:30pm. This not only gives him time to bond with our son, it also gives me time to cook dinner and then do "me" stuff so that I'm not driven insane by staying home with a toddler all day.

I do the bulk of the cleaning because I stay at home and that's fair. But if we're talking about "innate" ability or interest, I am a way slobbier person than my husband. He's very neat and keeps things clean just as a normal part of his day, whereas I've had to schedule cleaning or else it doesn't get done. When he finishes a project, he cleans up his workspace right away, whereas I'm all like "yay! Done! I'm going to go show the world! And then, oooh, shiny!"

But then I love cooking, and he hates it.

Academically, I'm way ahead of him. I have a university education, he doesn't. I'm also just more "knowledge-acquisition" minded than he is - I'll take freebie courses online just for fun, and I read science articles, read textbooks, etc just because I enjoy it. That's not gender, though. That's family history. He comes from farmers and labourers in the USSR, whereas I come from a family with a very high PhD to person ratio.

Anyways, there ARE sex differences, and there do seem to be some gender differences (though both are fairly complicated questions since even physical sex is a tricky determination in a far higher percentage of the population than you might think), but these are vastly overshadowed by simple differences between individuals. So talking about gender differences might be interesting to researchers, but it's of very little value for real world application - and certainly should not be your guide for living your own life.

[desertvixen]

My husband now, much as I love him, would never, ever keep his home clean. But it has nothing at all to do with him being a man. It's that he's had women trailing around taking care of him for 49 years.

This, so much.

Moms should get some time off right after giving birth because it's a pretty traumatic experience for most people. That said, most women are ready to get back to work within 2-3 weeks, and some do it within a couple of days. There's no reason why they should have to wait until baby is weaned before there's a switch off - especially since many women (especially in the US) simply do not have that luxury. There are many women who successfully breastfeed while working in two income families, so there's no reason why they can't successfully breastfeed while working in single income families.

There may be women who are ready to go back to work that quick, but I doubt that most women who do go back to work so early are doing it because they want to. They do it because there's not another option besides "lose your job". Of course, there's not many childcare options that take a baby that small, and not all of us have relatives in our area. There's no need to wait for weaning, but considering that at least in the areas I've lived in, it seems like the cutoff for when your baby can go to daycare is 6 weeks, I think women should be able to get at least that.

I would argue that there are plenty of reasons why women might not be able to successfully breastfeed while working, mainly unsupportive work environments.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Many of the stereotypes are not constant.

Take studying, for example. Once upon a time, it was simply assumed that women were too stupid to attend university, enter a profession, or do any sort of serious studying. It's only very recently that this assumption has changed, as women flooded into universities and had previously closed doors open to them. Professions like law and medicine changed from overwhelmingly male to equal enrollment within only one generation.

As for childrearing - yes, birth and breastfeeding are biologically female....but that's it. There are societies where parental leaves are structured so that a mother can take off time to recover from childbirth and exclusively breastfeed for the first few months, and then the father can take off time to bond with the baby as well. This spreads the burden of childcare, it means that employers can't automatically assume that hiring a fertile women = future employee taking time off or quitting, and it means that long-term career plans are not derailed because of events that don't last forever. Let's assume that a career can last from age 25 to 65 - that's 40 years. Let's also assume that a woman had 2 children, breastfeeds exclusively for 6 months. That's a total of one year off in total. Should that one year derail the other 39 years? A system that doesn't provide for parental leaves focuses a stark choice between returning to work when it is particularly difficult to do so, or leaving the workforce altogether.

As for neatness - it's a combination of societal and inborn traits. Meet my parents - my father is super-organized, my mother is not. My father will clean up, because a mess drives him crazy and he doesn't have the patience to wait for my mother to do it.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Re schooling:

There are a few areas when some genuine gender differences may exist.

ON AVERAGE, and keeping in mind that there is a huge spectrum along with both boys and girls will fall, girls will develop verbal skills slightly ahead of boys.

ON AVERAGE, little boys also become more active as they go through testosterone surges (again, keeping in mind that there is a huge and overlapping range of normal for both genders).

The verbal development lag may not affect most children - but for boys born close to the cut-off date for the school year who are borderline students, it can make a difference. My mother (who was a special education teacher) used to talk about "December boys" and placement decisions - occasionally, it would make sense to hold back a child in kindergarten to allow his development to catch up. It could be possible that if an early struggle that was related to later development was not caught and addressed early, it could have more lasting results: The boy could see himself as stupid, lose interest in school, and a downward spiral could begin.

Another issue for boys is that in many elementary schools, staff is still predominantly female.

I have seen classrooms (my son's kindergarten class was a prime example), where teachers seem to relate better to the girls, and where the boys (a few of whom were at some point diagnosed with autism or ADHD) got yelled at whenever they couldn't sit still and focus during long circle times. An effective teacher will keep things a bit more active, and also use books and examples to appeal to both boys and girls.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I strongly disagree with gender stereotypes in general, and notably the housework one.

My father is excellent at cooking, cleaning and doing laundry. He picks up after himself, folds his clothes, keeps organized and clean. Why? BECAUSE IT'S NOT FUCKING COMPLICATED. Any person with a shred of self-discipline can do it.

Some of it is about effort, but there is such thing as being naturally wired to be organized or not. It has nothing to do with gender. People can understand that a male accountant or engineer may be super-organized and logical and want everything to be just so.

Some people (myself included) are not wired that way. I suck at visual-spatial skills, while my husband sucks at them even more. It's not a matter of effort most of the time - he is very self-disciplined in many areas, and isn't at all lazy. His brain is just wired in such a way that stuff that is simple for other people is really hard for him (like loading a dishwasher competently, with neither dishes nor the dishwasher breaking), while things that are hard for other people (like treating a complicated disease) are relatively simple for him. It means that he accidentally damages stuff without having any idea that he is doing so - for some reason, he'll clog toilets (no, not everything can be flushed), tangle seatbelts, and be oblivious to the fact that plastic can't be around hot plates or ovens. He's good with computerized records, but anything with paper is a complete disaster - he'll have crumpled stuff falling out of pockets, and his handwriting is absolutely impossible to read. Again, it's NOT a gender thing. He also sucks at even the most basic "guy" skills that require any visual-spatial ability. I'm the one who parks the cars so that we don't destroy either the cars of the garage, I'm the one who hangs pictures on the walls, I'm the one who assembles IKEA stuff, I'm the one who takes out the trash, I'm the one who reads maps and remembers directions, and I'm the one who assembled the BBQ and who uses it. [He actually works hard and does tons of stuff - just not anything involving visual-spatial skills.]

[dawbs]

I think there's an important point, OP, in knowing the different ways a post can 'be upsetting' to people.

There's "Zomgs, she's stating things that we like to keep behind the curtain" upset. And there's "Oh FFS, she's trying to argue young earth creationism based no the mislabeling of Lucy bones? this makes me want to punch someone in the spleen and require everyone to read Dawkins"

This thread is firmly in the second camp.

I was reading something awesome recently about how there's a lot of 'confirmation bias' in gender studies. in THEORY, "we ran this test and it proved what we already know--that men and women are essentially the same 99.44% of the time" is as publishable a paper as "zomgs, look, the MRIs are slightly different."

In practice, teh latter gets a lot more publication time and a lot lot LOT more media attention--which, of course, fuels the socital

[Maggie Mae]

Some of it is about effort, but there is such thing as being naturally wired to be organized or not. It has nothing to do with gender. People can understand that a male accountant or engineer may be super-organized and logical and want everything to be just so.

Some people (myself included) are not wired that way. I suck at visual-spatial skills, while my husband sucks at them even more. It's not a matter of effort most of the time - he is very self-disciplined in many areas, and isn't at all lazy. His brain is just wired in such a way that stuff that is simple for other people is really hard for him (like loading a dishwasher competently, with neither dishes nor the dishwasher breaking), while things that are hard for other people (like treating a complicated disease) are relatively simple for him. It means that he accidentally damages stuff without having any idea that he is doing so - for some reason, he'll clog toilets (no, not everything can be flushed), tangle seatbelts, and be oblivious to the fact that plastic can't be around hot plates or ovens. He's good with computerized records, but anything with paper is a complete disaster - he'll have crumpled stuff falling out of pockets, and his handwriting is absolutely impossible to read. Again, it's NOT a gender thing. He also sucks at even the most basic "guy" skills that require any visual-spatial ability. I'm the one who parks the cars so that we don't destroy either the cars of the garage, I'm the one who hangs pictures on the walls, I'm the one who assembles IKEA stuff, I'm the one who takes out the trash, I'm the one who reads maps and remembers directions, and I'm the one who assembled the BBQ and who uses it. [He actually works hard and does tons of stuff - just not anything involving visual-spatial skills.]

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to argue with your situation, but how is even possible to load a dishwasher incorrectly? I'm the least home-maker-y type person ever. I wash all of my clothes together, with the towels, on cold. I put dishes in the dishwasher according to "there is space here" and then run it. Nothing ever gets broken, although i'm sure there is a more efficient way of putting the dishes in.

[dawbs]

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to argue with your situation, but how is even possible to load a dishwasher incorrectly? I'm the least home-maker-y type person ever. I wash all of my clothes together, with the towels, on cold. I put dishes in the dishwasher according to "there is space here" and then run it. Nothing ever gets broken, although i'm sure there is a more efficient way of putting the dishes in.

If you have a crappy enough dishwasher (guilty!), the dishes won't turn out clean if they're wrong, and have to be re-washed (after chiseling off baked-on-filth).

I know because I'm strongly discouraged from loading the dishwasher in my house. and encouraged to unload it :)

[Guest Anonymous]

If you have a crappy enough dishwasher (guilty!), the dishes won't turn out clean if they're wrong, and have to be re-washed (after chiseling off baked-on-filth).

I know because I'm strongly discouraged from loading the dishwasher in my house. and encouraged to unload it :)

You can also melt your expensive food processor attachments if you put them on the bottom rather than the top shelf. Damn, I must be a man and I didn't know it, because I suck at domestic tasks.:mrgreen:

[Mama Mia]

I understand this may come across as weird, or argumentative or something --- but honest - this is a genuine question for discussion:

If there are no differences except genitalia between males and females - then how can some people be transgender ? It clearly isn't just wanting the other genders genitalia, since apparently many transgender people don't opt for surgery..... So what, in your view, defines "gender" and why would some people feel they are born into the wrong gender, if there are no differences except purely physical structure ?

In reading the Radical Feminist thread awhile back it seems that some people think there should be no "gender" concept and that transgender is somehow 'fake' .... so what would alternate theories be ?

[dawbs]

I understand this may come across as weird, or argumentative or something --- but honest - this is a genuine question for discussion:

If there are no differences except genitalia between males and females - then how can some people be transgender ? It clearly isn't just wanting the other genders genitalia, since apparently many transgender people don't opt for surgery..... So what, in your view, defines "gender" and why would some people feel they are born into the wrong gender, if there are no differences except purely physical structure ?

In reading the Radical Feminist thread awhile back it seems that some people think there should be no "gender" concept and that transgender is somehow 'fake' .... so what would alternate theories be ?

I am so far from the expert on this subject that I shouldn't even try it...but I"m going to take a stab anyhow.

If we assume gender is 100% a social construct, there's still the fact that it's a black and white boxing of people--the people of the world have to 'opt in' as Male/Female or 'opt out' as 'other'.

For most of us, that's easy (relatively). Cisgendered, I am female, i appear female, I 'opt in' as adult female. My husband is male, appears male, he 'opts in' as adult male.

If my child were to be transgendered, she may not want to 'opt out' and select 'other'. She'd look at the gender boxes and find herself drawn to the 'male' box while being biologically female. In a perfect, non-gendered world, she could be drawn to the 'male' ideal w/o having to take on the whole box, but the social cosntructs are to firmly wired into EVERY aspect of our life--from "boys line up here, girls here" to "what bathroom?", to do that.

Opting out means taking a...very hard to define role. It means being excluded from one of the black and whilte boxes of society. It means turning down opportunities to fit into any social norm and choosing a separate path.

As hard as choosing "I select the 'male' box and am biologically female" would be to do, I think "I select the mostly male box and am biologically female and am willing to live as an outsider" would be harder (I don't think it's THAT conscious of a choice--at all. But I think the fact taht "neither" isn't seen as an option has to play a role in it)

[yewchapel]

Dawbs, that's a really well-explained answer and I think you're right :)

edited for riffles

[ladyamylynn]

I understand this may come across as weird, or argumentative or something --- but honest - this is a genuine question for discussion:

If there are no differences except genitalia between males and females - then how can some people be transgender ? It clearly isn't just wanting the other genders genitalia, since apparently many transgender people don't opt for surgery..... So what, in your view, defines "gender" and why would some people feel they are born into the wrong gender, if there are no differences except purely physical structure ?

In reading the Radical Feminist thread awhile back it seems that some people think there should be no "gender" concept and that transgender is somehow 'fake' .... so what would alternate theories be ?

I am not a scientist, but from what I understand, there is, in fact, some quantifiable difference between the brains of biological males and females. (Things like density of neurons, proportions between different parts of the brain, etc.) However: we don't actually understand the human brain well enough to point to specific behaviors or character qualities that result from these differences. Much of the time, laypeople, writers, and even scientists fall into the trap of confirmation bias when looking to correlate the details of brain structure with observable behavior. (For example, the human male brain is slightly larger than the female brain, so males must be better at math, right? Or some such nonsense.) Adding to the complexity, the vast majority of male and female children are treated differently from one another literally from the moment of birth, and again, we currently don't understand human brains well enough to know exactly how these environmental factors affect brain development.

So, I don't think it's entirely out of the question that, due to some innate quality of brain structure and development, that certain people may "feel" male or female, and that sometimes that feeling may not match up with the person's genitalia. To make the situation even more complex, you must also understand that about 1% of live births exhibit some form of sexual ambiguity. (This figure comes from an article published in American Journal of Human Biology.) In many of these cases, the parents, along with a doctor, will make their best guess/decision about the sex of the child and just go with it.

In any case, trans people are my sisters and brothers and I believe they deserve the support of the entire feminist community.

(Please don't take this as a defense of gender essentialism, which I think is absolute b.s. I hope someday we will be free from the patriarchy, and genuine differences between males and females, such that they may or may not actually exist, would be cause for greater understanding rather than oppression.)

[RachelB]

I understand this may come across as weird, or argumentative or something --- but honest - this is a genuine question for discussion:

If there are no differences except genitalia between males and females - then how can some people be transgender ? It clearly isn't just wanting the other genders genitalia, since apparently many transgender people don't opt for surgery..... So what, in your view, defines "gender" and why would some people feel they are born into the wrong gender, if there are no differences except purely physical structure ?

In reading the Radical Feminist thread awhile back it seems that some people think there should be no "gender" concept and that transgender is somehow 'fake' .... so what would alternate theories be ?

My basic take, as someone who used to think that raising children entirely sans gender would solve pretty much all problems: I think that rigid gender roles are baloney. But that's completely independent of the question of whether my body matches my conception of myself. The argument that trans* people somehow make gender categories more rigid ignores the fact that not everyone who is trans* identifies as occupying one position in a binary. Some people are genderqueer, or agender. And, contra sitcom portrayals, a person can simultaneously be a trans* woman, and lesbian, and butch-identified.

I believe in respecting and honoring someone's self-definition, and I don't believe as someone who is not trans*, that it would be responsible of me to theorize trans*-ness. (There's been enough of that, I think.) But I can highly recommend Julia Serano's Whipping Girl, if you haven't read it already.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I think that long term we need to get RID of those black and white boxes. There should be no need for a "gender" box anywhere. Unless you need to know about my physical body or my genitalia or we're getting ready to reproduce (or not) where you need to know about my SEX, it shouldn't matter, it shouldn't affect what line I have to line up with at school, what kind of uniform I'm permitted, what kind of job I should be allowed, who my friends are, any of it.

I get that we're not in that world now and people need to do what they need to do. But long term? Smash gender. Let people associate in whatever groups they want.

[RachelB]

I think that long term we need to get RID of those black and white boxes. There should be no need for a "gender" box anywhere. Unless you need to know about my physical body or my genitalia or we're getting ready to reproduce (or not) where you need to know about my SEX, it shouldn't matter, it shouldn't affect what line I have to line up with at school, what kind of uniform I'm permitted, what kind of job I should be allowed, who my friends are, any of it.

I get that we're not in that world now and people need to do what they need to do. But long term? Smash gender. Let people associate in whatever groups they want.

True fact: I am pretty sure that the closest I have ever been to being beaten up by a couple of complete strangers was over how I was performing gender at the time.

There are a number of features that people who are "gendering" you are looking at. I have a squarish jaw, a fair bit of peach fuzz, a very faint mustache (when I don't remove it), a relatively prominent eyebrow ridge, wide shoulders, and narrow hips for my frame. Those features are sometimes read as masculine, though in fact there are cis women who have them, too.

I am also quite short and slight of stature, have no visible Adam's apple, and have fairly small hands and feet. These features are sometimes read as feminine, though in fact there are cis men who have them, too.

I was sporting boots, a parka, and a buzz cut this particular winter. I was most often read as a 14-year-old boy, rather than as a butch lesbian. Near-sighted old guys called me "son" when I opened the door for them. Mostly, this did not bother me. The two guys on the train who kept staring daggers at me, though...

One of my friends whispered to me, "They're playing the Pat game with you." As in, these two guys couldn't gender me, and it was a total affront to them, and they got angrier and angrier. My friends and I got off a stop early, because they are kind people, and it unnerved them to see how these guys were looking at me.

I went out and bought a tube of lipstick the next day. I hated wearing it. It felt sticky and smelled funny, and wearing it felt like lying about who I was. But I never wanted to be on the receiving end of that kind of look again.

What on earth makes someone feel so disturbed not to be able to put a stranger in one of two boxes? I do not get this.

[ladyamylynn]

True fact: I am pretty sure that the closest I have ever been to being beaten up by a couple of complete strangers was over how I was performing gender at the time.

There are a number of features that people who are "gendering" you are looking at. I have a squarish jaw, a fair bit of peach fuzz, a very faint mustache (when I don't remove it), a relatively prominent eyebrow ridge, wide shoulders, and narrow hips for my frame. Those features are sometimes read as masculine, though in fact there are cis women who have them, too.

I am also quite short and slight of stature, have no visible Adam's apple, and have fairly small hands and feet. These features are sometimes read as feminine, though in fact there are cis men who have them, too.

I was sporting boots, a parka, and a buzz cut this particular winter. I was most often read as a 14-year-old boy, rather than as a butch lesbian. Near-sighted old guys called me "son" when I opened the door for them. Mostly, this did not bother me. The two guys on the train who kept staring daggers at me, though...

One of my friends whispered to me, "They're playing the Pat game with you." As in, these two guys couldn't gender me, and it was a total affront to them, and they got angrier and angrier. My friends and I got off a stop early, because they are kind people, and it unnerved them to see how these guys were looking at me.

I went out and bought a tube of lipstick the next day. I hated wearing it. It felt sticky and smelled funny, and wearing it felt like lying about who I was. But I never wanted to be on the receiving end of that kind of look again.

What on earth makes someone feel so disturbed not to be able to put a stranger in one of two boxes? I do not get this.

Ugh, I'm so sorry this happened to you. I have often daydreamed about having a slightly more androgynous appearance so that I could "pass" as a male occasionally and not have to deal with strangers staring at my body, but your post nicely illustrates why that would just lead to its own special brand of harassment. Fuck the patriarchy.

[Syd+Marky]

Many years ago I began dating a woman in what I understood to be a lesbian relationship.During the course of our relationship I learned that she truly felt transgender-the way she put it "a mam trapped in a lesbians body."Thats what it came down to for her-feeling trapped inside a body that did not match who she felt she was.It bothered her alot when we would go into the womens restroom together when we were out and some waitress or security person would fly in after us freaking out about "the man in the womens restroom!".It bothered me,also,to watch someone I cared for be humiliated like that.And if she was to try using the mens restroom,she would feel as if she was somewhere she wasn't supposed to be-not to mention the issue of not being physically able to use a urinal,and the feeling of being looked at oddly for choosing to use a stall.Thats alot of crap to go through just to use a public restroom.Another thing about her-she wasn't into sports,she was an OCD housekeeper,and her (mens)clothes,and short haircut were of utmost importance.Some would say those are feminine traits.They were her traits.

Just in case anyone wonders...I refer to my ex as a her because during the time we were a part of eachothers lives she had not made the desision to identify as male,yet,and it made her uncomfortable to do so.If that has changed since we parted ways,I dont know about it.I do have a close girlfriend who was born male,but has always identified herself as female for as long as I've known her.I try to respect the individuals preference.btw-she,too,explains the feeling as being born in the wrong body,causing the same mental,emotional,and social pain as my ex.

Regardless of either persons interests,skills,or characteristics,both felt the need to have their bodies match their souls.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to argue with your situation, but how is even possible to load a dishwasher incorrectly? I'm the least home-maker-y type person ever. I wash all of my clothes together, with the towels, on cold. I put dishes in the dishwasher according to "there is space here" and then run it. Nothing ever gets broken, although i'm sure there is a more efficient way of putting the dishes in.

Ask my husband! He find ways to fuck it up that I never would have imagined.

Stuff that he's done includes:

Putting sharp knives in with the blades sticking up, so I cut myself when reaching in

Putting roasting pans into the dishwasher without realizing that they contain tons of grease, which will spread onto all the other dishes

Putting stuff on the upper rack that is facing up, not down, so it is impossible for it to be properly washed and rinsed

Taking a few dishes and shoving them in together, with no space between them

Putting a larger dish or wine glass on the upper rack, not realizing that it is too tall, and then having it break when rack is pushed back into the dishwasher

Allowing cutlery to fall onto the bottom and get caught in the drain

Allowing plastic to come into contact with hot elements

Putting dishes in the dishwasher that still contain a meal's worth of food

He seriously doesn't see this stuff. He doesn't see how shapes fit together, so he can't figure out that some items are too big, or that they will interfere with the working of the machine. He has no sense of where the water sprays from, or how the dishwasher works. As far as I can tell, he just sees it as this big confusing box that he's been told not to touch, but he really doesn't like to see dishes pile up so he sort of throws things in at random, all in a bunch, then shuts the door and pressed random buttons until something makes a noise.

He's a wonderful man with many talents - but loading a dishwasher (or fixing anything, or painting a room) is not one of them.

[Diana]

I read once that scientists say that its supposed that our differences (physical and in the brain) came from evolution and the chores our ancestors in the prehistoria did, the males brain became better to process the long distance vision, and detect animals to hunt, the women were recolectors and their brains became better for short distance vision, obviusly women get pregnant and had to breastfeed, so the division of chores was necessary for survival reasons.

So we naturally have some differences, but since every person is different not all the womas or mens are the same, and there is the cultural thing too that have a big influence in our interests.

Its funny that the reason of gender differences is evolution, and the most ardent advocates of gender differences are also the ones that have the stronger rejection of evolution.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I read once that scientists say that its supposed that our differences (physical and in the brain) came from evolution and the chores our ancestors in the prehistoria did, the males brain became better to process the long distance vision, and detect animals to hunt, the women were recolectors and their brains became better for short distance vision, obviusly women get pregnant and had to breastfeed, so the division of chores was necessary for survival reasons.

So we naturally have some differences, but since every person is different not all the womas or mens are the same, and there is the cultural thing too that have a big influence in our interests.

Its funny that the reason of gender differences is evolution, and the most ardent advocates of gender differences are also the ones that have the stronger rejection of evolution.

1. Saying "scientists say" means nothing, and SOTDRT grads do this all the time. If there is an actual scientist with an actual study published in a peer-reviewed journal, please feel free to share.

2. I'm skeptical of "evolution" arguments to support gender differences, because men and women don't reproduce and evolve separately. We inherit one set of chromosomes from our mother, and one from our father.