Josie's Sensory Issues

[Miggy]

We can't tell if a child is autistic from a few TV show segments.

The behaviours Josie displays (the rocking, the hands over ears) could be because she was bored or tired or had just had a blanket-training session prior to the show. They could also be due to sensory overload, either with a sensory processing disorder or just plain a-lot-going-on-in-one-day. How long was Michael fussing and crying for? After a couple hours, even the most patient pre-schooler would have had enough!

The behaviours could also be due to a lack of speech-language skills, cognitive impairments, or autism. There are just too many possibilities to consider. I hope JB is secretly getting her therapy off-camera. She looks like she could need it.

These kids flew from Arkansas to New York yesterday, may or may not have had a decent nights sleep, were up much earlier than usual and have had to sit around backstage for who knows how long. Bored and tired probably sums up how everyone from Jana down feels. (Jim Bob, Michelle & Joshie enjoy the circus too much to be bored!) It is probably unfair of us to make any judgements of Josie based on how she behaved today.

[Chibi Author]

I think about all the therapies that Samuel Pope went through: speech, physical, occupational, etc, multiple times a week for over 2 years. He might still be having them. Granted, he did have problems with his vocal cords that Josie didn't have, but he seems to have made fantastic progress even in other areas with physical therapy.

Josie was born at the same gestational age in the same hospital and we've never seen her go to a single appointment with a therapist. It's certainly possible that she has zero problems related to her prematurity, but the odds of that are really low. I can't tell if the Duggars genuinely don't notice any problems with Josie, they are in denial about potential problems, or they're just really mired in a god-will-provide mentality and are expecting her to magically catch up.

I'm really, really hoping that Josie is indeed going to therapy, but that the therapist said something along the lines of, "Ah, HELL NO" when asked to be filmed.

It's very unlikely, but vain hopes are better than nothing?

My thoughts exactly.

I'm always struck by the way Sarah Pope knows every last detail about Samuel's development, current health status, etc. And then I wonder if Josie has similar problems and if so, who's paying attention to her development? Her parents? Unlikely. A sister-mom? Maybe, but they have to look after all of the other kids and I doubt they would have have the time to take her to therapy.

QFT, to both. Personally, I think there are several factors at play here.

One, Sarah seems like an incredible mother who truly loves and wants the best for her son.

Second, boy micro preemies do have a harder time time catching up than the girls do. Josie very probably does have similar issues to Samuel, but they may not be quite as severe. I'm not trying to defend Michelle at all, but that may be part of her thinking; that statistically, Josie's more likely to be fine, and OBVIOUSLY doesn't need all that heathenish therapy.

I remember an episode were Michelle was preparing Josie for some kind of show and she had to go trough a lot of trouble to make Josie's hair look curly. A lot of products went into it and she really had to shake the hair a lot. I think Josie's hair is to thin to grow long, and curly is the only shorter option feminim enough.

I do recognize the sensory issues, my son has them too. It explains some of her odd behavior at hospitals. I've seen a lot of children's behavior in hospitals, my son has leukemia, and she is much more upset and afraid then what I see in other children who endured a lot. I don't see autism, but I don't see completely normal either. Something about her isn't right.

If the curly hair is 'helped', it may also be because it makes her head a little bigger. The less frail looking, the better? :think:

I really hope your son's doing okay. :( Best wishes.

[Miggy]

I'm always struck by the way Sarah Pope knows every last detail about Samuel's development, current health status, etc. And then I wonder if Josie has similar problems and if so, who's paying attention to her development? Her parents? Unlikely. A sister-mom? Maybe, but they have to look after all of the other kids and I doubt they would have have the time to take her to therapy.

Does Josie even have a proper buddy? Jana and Jill both gave her care on screen but both are away from the TTH a lot now; Jana with all those Journeys she was sent on and Jill with her midwife training. Jessa and Jinger don't seem particularly maternal and I don't think I've seen either of them looking after Josie. Joy-Anna really seems to like Josie and wants to help but I got the impression that Michelle doesn't really trust her. (In A Love that Multiplies Michelle talks about learning to trust the older girls with Josie and I have several podcasts where Joy-Anna tries to do something and Michelle or Jill steps in and takes over.)

[slickcat79]

My thoughts exactly.

I'm always struck by the way Sarah Pope knows every last detail about Samuel's development, current health status, etc. And then I wonder if Josie has similar problems and if so, who's paying attention to her development? Her parents? Unlikely. A sister-mom? Maybe, but they have to look after all of the other kids and I doubt they would have have the time to take her to therapy.

IKR? She can actually tell the difference between 28 months and 24 months in terms of development. Michelle stops paying attention to her babies at the 6-9 month mark, so it wouldn't surprise me if she didn't notice anything wrong. The J'slaves know a good bit about taking care of kids, but I wouldn't expect them to fully understand developmental milestones.

Besides all that, Josie is the baby. Even in a "normal" family with kids born at full-term, people will often let the youngest get away with babyish behavior for longer because it's cute and they miss having an actual baby around. For a baby-collector like Michelle, that could easily be amplified because she's having a hard time letting go of her fertility.

I'm really, really hoping that Josie is indeed going to therapy, but that the therapist said something along the lines of, "Ah, HELL NO" when asked to be filmed.

It's very unlikely, but vain hopes are better than nothing?

I hope that's the case too, but I feel like they'd at least mention it. They could always show them getting ready, show them driving to the facility, show Michelle or JB doing exercises with her at the TTH or something. Here's hoping one of this season's episodes includes Josie going to PT/OT/getting an evaluation.

[Feberin]

My nephew had tubes in his ears and he couldn't stand loud noises when he had them. I would think that makes the most sense for Josie. I don't think we've seen anywhere near enough to make me think she's autistic.

[gustava]

Instead of wondering if someone is autistic, I think it more accurate to wonder if someone is on the "autism spectrum."

[skeptifem]

These kids flew from Arkansas to New York yesterday, may or may not have had a decent nights sleep, were up much earlier than usual and have had to sit around backstage for who knows how long. Bored and tired probably sums up how everyone from Jana down feels. (Jim Bob, Michelle & Joshie enjoy the circus too much to be bored!) It is probably unfair of us to make any judgements of Josie based on how she behaved today.

babies don't know how to pop their ears after a flight either. It can be hellish.

[Evilbad]

I don't think she's autistic. I don't think you can really gauge that from a couple of TV episodes.

My son is on the spectrum and she doesn't display a lot of typical behaviors you see in kids with ASD. However, again, you don't see her enough to know.

[fundiemental]

I don't think she's autistic. I don't think you can really gauge that from a couple of TV episodes.

My son is on the spectrum and she doesn't display a lot of typical behaviors you see in kids with ASD. However, again, you don't see her enough to know.

I agree about not bein able to make any calls based on such little information. But that's exactly what's happening with the Mackynzie thread. Speculationfest. It can be interesting, but mostly I think it's just silly.

[crazyforkate]

There is also a theory floating around out there that former NICU babies (premature or not) are more sensitive to loud noises and bright lights, not because any specific disorder, but because of being exposed to bright lights and loud noises all the time during their hospital stay - and especially associating it with pain. I was an NICU baby, but not really premature (just a tiny bit early), and lights and noise always scared me as a little kid. Eventually grew out of it, but I still can't stand fireworks. Maybe Josie is the same - not so much suffering from any condition as scared the way you might be afraid of dogs if one bit you when you were little.

[OkToBeTakei]

I think a few photos are a bit silly to try and diagnose a child with a 'label.' I detest loud noise and I am 43. I hate the TV above ambient volume. Strangely I like loud music but it is when I 'KNOW' it is loud and expect and want it.

Also being young all senses are more acute. I see a lot of wee kids at school things (younger siblings) put their hands over their ears at school performances. Same at the cinema.

I think at times some just WANT to wish some affliction on this poor child just because her parents are numpties. Therefore let's say Josie is a neglected preemie although we have little evidence to go on, with issues and therefore we can snark because we do not like her parents religious/lifestyle choices? There again I find that with most comments about the kids. The oldest are repressed the younger are wild. The parents are the numpties. The kids until adults are just collateral damage. Sadly :(

[August]

I'm really, really hoping that Josie is indeed going to therapy, but that the therapist said something along the lines of, "Ah, HELL NO" when asked to be filmed.

It's very unlikely, but vain hopes are better than nothing?

QFT, to both. Personally, I think there are several factors at play here.

One, Sarah seems like an incredible mother who truly loves and wants the best for her son.

Second, boy micro preemies do have a harder time time catching up than the girls do. Josie very probably does have similar issues to Samuel, but they may not be quite as severe. I'm not trying to defend Michelle at all, but that may be part of her thinking; that statistically, Josie's more likely to be fine, and OBVIOUSLY doesn't need all that heathenish therapy.

If the curly hair is 'helped', it may also be because it makes her head a little bigger. The less frail looking, the better? :think:

I really hope your son's doing okay. :( Best wishes.

Gothard thinks curly hair is sexy. That's why they all do it.

[dirtyhippiegirl]

Just chiming in to say that I'm another person who was born around the same gestational age as Josie (although with fewer medical issues) and I also had sensory integration issues. I grew out of them around second grade.

[cjsmom]

Instead of wondering if someone is autistic, I think it more accurate to wonder if someone is on the "autism spectrum."

While the more accurate term is being diagnosed as on the autism spectrum or with Autism Spectrum Disorder, the terms autist has been reclaimed by the autistic community, and autistic is a term people generally understand. I am the mother of a son who has a diagnosis of PDD-NOS, but it's usually better understood to say he's autistic, or 'he has Autism'. Unless I'm in a medical centre, where I'd say "he has PDD" I say "he's Autistic", and my son is okay with that. I also happen to be a special education teacher, and will not use the term autistic professionally. FWIW, CJ uses the terms PDD/Autism/Autistic interchangeably, neurotypical to describe boring non-autistic people like me, and he's old enough and cognitively aware enough to be able to make the choice.

[DarkAnts]

They could have done something to make Josie feel more comfortable. Even a small pair of ear plugs might have helped. Children who have had tubes tend to be more sensitive to sound. I had to wear ear protectors around loud sounds for years after I got tubes.

[Chicken bones]

Honestly, Jenny's silence and timidity worries me more. I hope it is that she is merely shy for the camera.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

It could be that Josie does go to therapy for her issues, but they dont want to admit it because it would somehow make them look bad (in their eyes), or scare people away from following their footsteps (which is the whole point of the show) when they see that prematurity isnt something that's easily overcome. The show makes it look like prematurity isnt an issue beyond a few health concerns here and there in the first year or two, when it can really be a life long issue.

That said, some kids have weird coping mechanisms with stress. When I was little, I used to scrunch my chin between my fingers and look like you were about to kill me whenever I was the least bit uncomfortable. And with all my time spent with kids, I've noticed they all have their own idiosyncrasies. Like one 6 year old I took care of would break down and cry if he had to talk to a stranger (like a store clerk) alone -- with, thankfully, the one exception being the time he got lost at one of those indoor play parks (he followed a kid he thought was his friend and ended up in an area he didnt recognize) and was able to find an adult who worked there to call me to the front desk -- but his biggest issue that was treatable by anything other than convincing him that the world wasnt going to end just because he had to talk to someone was ODD. I also took care of twins where one was completely outgoing and bubbly, the other completely introverted and wanting nothing to do with other people (he wouldn't even play with any of his 3 siblings); but by the time he was 2 and a half, that problem was mostly gone. He's still introverted, but he'll be social with others and wont have a meltdown if you try to get him to interact anymore. They used to think he was on the Autism spectrum, but now they think he was just not at that point of development yet.

[yetanothermeg]

If a child has sensory issues and receives no therapy, how would this impact the child's development?

[Dandruff]

However, I could also see Jim Bob realizing that the more normal she seems, the better it will be for his brand, and having her secretly go to therapy.

He may also want the people who were praying for Josie to feel like they really helped. I just hope they're aware of any therapy needs and will make sure she gets it.

[Stacie]

If you look at the clip on the bottom the People page Boob is holding her and she's covering her ears, exactly the same as she did today. I wonder if its more a self comfort thing.

I'm thinking she's got so many cousins and siblings making noise it's just her way of shutting them off! She's still pretty little, but seemed to be holding her on in Part 1 of the Asia trip.

Jordyn, I think Jennifer, and Mack, however, crack me up! Those three are going to be a force to be reckoned with.

[Stacie]

at my church the phrase many use is let go and let god.

I think Jase said that on Duck Dynasty the other night.... LOVE that show.

[ems]

She could just be "highly sensitive" (used more in the true pyschological sense of becoming easily overwhelmed by stimuli). Hopefully it's nothing that needs to be clinically addressed, but I don't think the Duggars are really down with seeing their children as people with unique personality traits and various needs for calm vs. stimulation, etc., esp. not if their personalities don't fit so well into the uber-large family dynamic. Poor Josie.

[Mama Mia]

Honestly, Jenny's silence and timidity worries me more. I hope it is that she is merely shy for the camera.

Why ? Not every child is a natural chatter box extrovert. There is nothing wrong with being a quiet child, except that it doesn't make for interesting tv.

[Mama Mia]

I think a few photos are a bit silly to try and diagnose a child with a 'label.' I detest loud noise and I am 43. I hate the TV above ambient volume. Strangely I like loud music but it is when I 'KNOW' it is loud and expect and want it.

Also being young all senses are more acute. I see a lot of wee kids at school things (younger siblings) put their hands over their ears at school performances. Same at the cinema.

I think at times some just WANT to wish some affliction on this poor child just because her parents are numpties. Therefore let's say Josie is a neglected preemie although we have little evidence to go on, with issues and therefore we can snark because we do not like her parents religious/lifestyle choices? There again I find that with most comments about the kids. The oldest are repressed the younger are wild. The parents are the numpties. The kids until adults are just collateral damage. Sadly :(

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Chicken bones]

Why ? Not every child is a natural chatter box extrovert. There is nothing wrong with being a quiet child, except that it doesn't make for interesting tv.

True. Our oldest needed some therapy to help his delayed speech and I just imagine little Jenny wouldn't receive that kind of intervention if she needed it. And she looks frightened a lot. Poor thing, she and the other Lost Girls are so adorable.