What if the fundies took over?

[RosyDaisy]

Two words.....American Taliban.

[Sola]

Think: The Handmaid's tale.

Not kidding.

[nokidsmom]

Great post, Burris. :clap:

To be honest, when I first read the title of this thread, my first thought was that they would never be able to pull if off because infighting amongst them would break out mere seconds after the coup. If it even got to that point.

But do agree that if it could happen, it would be the American Taliban. I would prefer being a SAHD in that case. Life wouldn't be great but it would be the lesser evil compared to being a married woman forced to submit to a husband, birth as many children as possible with no regarding to impact on my health or economic means, homeschool the next generation of SOTDRT fundie idiots, having to keep sweet while living a truly sucky life. As a SAHD, I would be protected from living some of this, but you can bet your bottom dollar that I would plotting like hell to find a way out.

[AVENues]

Imagine over nights that your rights as a woman as taken away.

You have no right to vote.

Limited access to reproductive healthcare

No abortion rights

You owned no property.

You could not go to college

You could not work outside the home.

Your husband had a legan right to rape and beat you.

I personally couldn't take it, and would probably kill myself.

This is exactly my response to an imaginary situation like that. Yes, a bit cranky, childlike, pouty, but heck no.

Everything I have is because there were women out there before I was born so I can allow to live the most free life a woman could in the entire history.

When, I ask, was a woman able to travel the world around, end an unwanted pregnancy for several reasons that would have ruined her life, when could a woman have been able to get a job just to selfishly support herself and offer some of her money to whomever she just pleases, to live alone, to enjoy solitude and quiet because she's not cut out to be a mother or a housewife? When? Only now! Only in the past few decades!

I have been thinking about it so much. I owe everything I have to women I have never known and myself. I was born empowered, all I had to do is take the opportunities I was given by people that are already gone! I would not want to go back. No. If I were to give up my "lifestyle", which is actually a LIFE, except not miserable unlike some people would expect it to be... If I were to give it up, I'd end it, and I'd go down with dignity and satisfaction.

So far no one has controlled my body. Here pills are available without prescription, anywhere, and it's a really strict country. I have been to Arabian countries where pills were available anywhere, too. That is something, at least. Abortion is forbidden but I'm a supporter of the Mary Stopes institution and they have clinics in nearby countries. That is something. I have kids that are raised by parents with patriarchal mindsets and one of them told me, that he will not want to marry a servant, he will marry someone who's his best friend because he wants to have fun with his future spouse together not give orders and sit around. I almost cried. No, I cried. Not in front of them but I did cry! They can't bring the dark ages back. I watch govt and MOE approved videos with them - some are banned here - we watched Rapunzel and we had a really long conversation about why keeping people in a castle as a servant is wrong. None of them did approve of holding anyone captive,no matter how "safe" and "satisfactory" it is. The Patriarchy will be buried bit by bit as it's follower die out. The world isn't moving backwards, thank Goddess.

[AVENues]

I would hope and pray that I would end up an old maid like Sarah Maxwell. It would seem preferable to the alternative.

Actually, you are totally right. We can make fun of poor Sarah as much as we want but she's spared from constant sexual harassment, horrid, risky, mostly unmedicated childbirths beyond her ability to recover, noise, constant noise, shrieking, blanket training babies - I couldn't!!! - constant and neverending pregnancies, nausea, hyperemesis, exhaustion, unmedicated depression, other mental issues, GUILT that she has them at all, being ordered to pray it the fuck away, raising servants instead of daughters and patriarchal jerks instead of sons, and being touched and touched and touched, no matter how sore, tired, irritated she is. I don't know if they are expected to enjoy it, if they aren't they are lucky. If screwing your wife is just another ego boost to these jerks, you'd be expected to HAVE an orgasm, right? Because your man is such a manly man.

She is fed, sheltered, expected to be dragged around. All the other wives are, expect that they are irritated, depressed, sore and tired to death.

[gilora]

If the fundies took over? Idiocracy. I can't imagine how they could possibly run a government. It's kind of like a dog chasing a car: what would the dog do if he ever caught it?

[ADoyle90815]

I think at first, it would be like The Handmaid's Tale, but after a few generations, it would become more like Idiocracy, but with a more religious slant to it.

[Becket70]

Canada, here I come!

[Rosa]

the SAHD's are only spared that if their father isn't the horrible abusing tyrant.

[valsa]

I hope you'd not kill yourselves.

Don't think for one second that I overlooked Debrand's thread on Madam Sivac – the judge who helped make rape a war crime. (I don't know why the media picked up on it only now: Madam Sivac has been chipping away at this since well before 1995.)

She survived in a situation designed specifically to kill people: Two months – approximately 60 days - 1440 hours, with each hour holding no more promise for relief than the one that came before. To the ones who saw her then, she was one face among 37 women serving in the kitchen areas or cleaning interrogation rooms. To the ones who see her now, she is a human battering ram who plans to pound the shit out of as many war criminals as she can catch. And if her efforts at prosecution are hampered for legal or logistical reasons, she has other ways of collecting at least part of her due.

Madam Sivac is an avid letter-writer who has a fondness for good stationary. She enjoys sending mail abroad every couple of years: Friendly greetings, questions about the health of family – and reminders that she is still out there, knows your address, and could live another 20 years.

The story to which Debrand linked doesn't do the madam justice enough credit: Most of the individuals successfully tried for war crimes related to the massacre at her city and in the outlying camps were brought to the prisoners' dock by her actions. She did the leg work, went to the homes of survivors who swore they'd never speak and managed to collect testimonies from them.

She never had the opportunity to participate in any kind of resistance. Others preferred death to living as she had to live. But now, about 20 years later – well, she's frightening, relentless, and exceptionally pissed off.

If she had killed herself, most of the people convicted would never have been in court at all.

Rape probably still wouldn't be considered a war crime.

Madam Sivac was indeed an amazing person but not everyone can be that amazing.

As quoted above, I'd like to think I'd be strong enough to participate in some sort of underground resistance, but people rarely know whether or not they're that strong until they're actually tested. If it turns out that I'm not strong enough to rebel and not willing to live oppressed (that much, at least, I'm pretty sure about), then I probably would commit suicide. Maybe I'd be able to do some sort of suicide mission for the resistance?

[gulag]

Two words.....American Taliban.

We're there.

The Revival Movement, The Great Awakening, Master's Commission, 'getting our country back to the principles of the Founding Fathers' - all catch phrases for political and civil Christian jihad in America. In English.

They're even using concepts like "martyr" and "patriot" and willing to kill and die for the cause.

Abortion clinic bombings = American Taliban.

[debrand]

In order to create a Christian theocracy, the leaders would have to murder intellectuals. I believe they did something similar in Cambodia. Hiding books, educating the young and making certain that real science and history still survived would help defeat those in power

In such a system, women wouldn't be the only victims. The poor and non whites(or not white enough) would also be pushed down and controlled. There are a lot of individuals that would be willing to fight back. ly

I don't know how the religious right extremists could take over in the United States. Most of us are used to freedom and I think that overall the United States is moving away from blind respect of religion. That is why members on the right are screaming so loudly. The right is loosing on issues like same sex marriage and more people are willing to call them out on their stupidity. People like Burris show that a good Christian doesn't have to be an extreme right loon.(no offense meant to the birds called loons)

However, I think that fear leads people to lean to the right. Either a natural disaster or a terrorist strike could lead people to follow someone that they normally wouldn't.

[debrand]

We're there.

The Revival Movement, The Great Awakening, Master's Commission, 'getting our country back to the principles of the Founding Fathers' - all catch phrases for political and civil Christian jihad in America. In English.

They're even using concepts like "martyr" and "patriot" and willing to kill and die for the cause.

Abortion clinic bombings = American Taliban.

I really wish that the American news would report on Dominionism and call it a threat to our democracy.

[gulag]

I don't know how the religious right extremists could take over in the United States. Most of us are used to freedom

Easy. We take freedom for granted and do nothing to ensure it. We don't fear losing it. We assume - surely "somebody" will "do" something. There are laws, aren't there?

Legislation and authority proves it out, every day.

Last week in Kansas, a House committee passed HB2253. Among other things, it prohibits anyone who works at a clinic that provides abortion, from volunteering in schools.

Kansas Bill Would Ban Abortion Clinic Employees From ‘Bringing Cupcakes’ To Their Child’s School

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/03/08 ... ds-school/

A year ago, Anchorage, Alaska rejected an anti-discrimination proposition. How? Local evangelical fundie churches and one particularly influential pastor took advantage of democratic public process to interfere with actual public process. He rallied Christians en masse and chartered buses to bring in people from other towns 50 miles away to provide public testimony on the issue; filling up the docket for days and effectively eliminating public testimony. Christian assembly members allowed it, even though they weren't residents, based on the premise that they were commuters who work in Anchorage and ultimately affected by Anchorage policy.

Then, they all voted. Citizens like you and I did not. It failed, even though a large majority of Anchorage supported it. Five previous mayors publicly supported it. Everybody was shocked!

The Lt. Governor from Sarah Palin's administration who inherited the job when she quit, shut down health care coverage for uninsured children. (Which is actually a federal initiative.) He held the program hostage for Christian agenda - he wanted legislative action to prohibit payment to providers and clinics that provide any sort of abortion-relation services including information and referrals. He got away with it for awhile, until the media publicized it.

Alaska Governor Sean Parnell first official travel was to a "meeting" with James Dobson, Heritage Foundation, Focus on the Family, in Colorado Springs. He took his wife, security and a staffer, at state expense. He still has yet to explain what the state business was. What is known is that there was a prayer session, blessing thing to guide his leadership. http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/p ... cus-family

Same guy nominated a fundie to service on the state Judicial Council. The former president of the Eagle Forum's state affiliate. He publicly testified that he would like to see Alaskans prosecuted for having sex outside of marriage. But he's not going to let his personal views affect the job.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/w ... agle-forum

This, in the most liberal independent state in the U.S.? It's happening every day, every where.

[nokidsmom]

the SAHD's are only spared that if their father isn't the horrible abusing tyrant.

Quite true. In my case, my folks were totally fine with keeping me at home; issues surfaced when I tried to leave, even more when I married. But in the case of fundie American Taliban takeover, I wouldn't be trying to leave (because in that case it would be in my best interest) so they would be quite happy with that and keep the Prince Charmings away.

[Ellimenopy]

If the fundies took over? Idiocracy. I can't imagine how they could possibly run a government. It's kind of like a dog chasing a car: what would the dog do if he ever caught it?

Exactly. I think fundies would actually hate it if they were "in charge." Being persecuted is a huge part of their cultural identity (not that they are, but that they think they are.) If they got their morality legislated, they wouldn't be special, they'd just be one more schmuck following the law. They'd either have to keep making laws more and more restrictive to compete with each other, and I don't see American fundies ever having the stomach for too many rounds of that. Or, they do what they've been doing - find a nice balance of "being different and persecuted" and "being nosy and obnoxious enough that nobody forgets we're here." The later strategy seems to be working for them; I don't see them trying to change it anytime soon.

[NjoyingNsanity]

My plans, and yes I honestly do have plans which might possibly make me the world's only left leaning, liberal prepper, is to have hubby raise money for us to go on a mission trip to save those poor lost souls in some foreign country. Once out of the USA we'd either spend the rest of our lives traveling the world, or we'd find the least religious country with the most freedoms and apply for citizenship there.

[Burris]

Madam Sivac was indeed an amazing person but not everyone can be that amazing.

As quoted above, I'd like to think I'd be strong enough to participate in some sort of underground resistance, but people rarely know whether or not they're that strong until they're actually tested.

It's true. I don't know how Madam Sivac survived. I don't know how in the hell anyone survived. In the space of about five months, a full third of the camp's population died - and not generally of mass executions, but rather individually of beatings, starvation, and torture.

And yet despite the odds, despite torture that is truly unspeakable - as in, it's impossible to talk about without choking on bile - and despite a starvation diet that couldn't have been more than 600 calories a day, human beings survived in an environment hostile to life.

Guards didn't just kill people there; they tore people apart there. And for over 1400 hours, Madam Savic lived in that cesspool and cleaned up after the guards.

Commanded by Drago Prcac, who relied on his lapdog Nada Balaban to keep records which she probably burned the day foreign journalists showed up. Zealous security chief Mekic who roamed the camp looking for people to beat.

The camp guards had a three-shift rota of twelve hours each, so that one of them would have spent 12 hours at the camp for every 24 survived by Madam Sivac - excepting days off, so approximately 550 hours: 7-7, 7-7, 7-7. There were three team leads, and the worst by far surely must have been Krkan - or, as he was christened before becoming a total fucking monster, Mlado Radic; the sort of early bloomer who likely pulled wings off flies when he was still wearing diapers.

That place was so fucked up most of the guards couldn't stand it while sober. One pretty much had to be either drunk or high to spend more than an hour at a time in that putrefied shithole (unless of course one happened to be built like Krkan or Mekic).

Better food, far more often; no beatings with cables and barbed wire or rebar and batons and God only knows what the hell else, and yet some of the guards killed themselves after the war. They saw the Serb leadership at Prijedor trying to cover up what happened in the area camps - especially Omarska, worst of the largest - and thought that would be forever.

They were this >.< close to being right.

Madam Savic still lives in Prijedor - in the same city where some of the former guards settled; a city generally hostile, now, to her efforts.

No, most people aren't built like that - which is why it's probably easier for one to tip into serving the system rather than surviving it. But the thing about Madam Sivac is I don't think she saw herself as capable of survival, either; she simply went on living there merely because she hadn't died yet.

Madam Sivac has over 30 people on the hook, and numerous others to whom she writes those letters of hers - not merely to former guards but to Serb soldiers whose duties brought them into contact with the system of death camps in that area: People who knew better but did worse.

If it turns out that I'm not strong enough to rebel and not willing to live oppressed (that much, at least, I'm pretty sure about), then I probably would commit suicide. Maybe I'd be able to do some sort of suicide mission for the resistance?

I've read you for years.

You'd fight back.

[Ellimenopy]

My plans, and yes I honestly do have plans which might possibly make me the world's only left leaning, liberal prepper, is to have hubby raise money for us to go on a mission trip to save those poor lost souls in some foreign country. Once out of the USA we'd either spend the rest of our lives traveling the world, or we'd find the least religious country with the most freedoms and apply for citizenship there.

Not the only liberal prepper, trust me! We also have plans to just leave, but I anticipate political meltdown rather than fundie takeover. Meet us in South America, yo. Right under that big fat statue of Jesus.

[samurai_sarah]

My plans, and yes I honestly do have plans which might possibly make me the world's only left leaning, liberal prepper, is to have hubby raise money for us to go on a mission trip to save those poor lost souls in some foreign country. Once out of the USA we'd either spend the rest of our lives traveling the world, or we'd find the least religious country with the most freedoms and apply for citizenship there.

Sorry to disappoint you, but you're not alone. :lol: Mine are technically for a "Revolution" style event/zombie apocalypse, but they're workable for a fundiecalypse too.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I would go out and live somewhere isolated, pretend to be the ideal fundie (marry a guy who is gay and a good friend, with both of us free to have partners. His partner can pretend to be married to a woman I like, and we can all live together), have a fairly big family (cause I like the idea of that), and homeschool them but actually teach them evolution and how to appear fundie.

Id gain extra money for the family by collecting banned things at the first sign of fundies taking over, and then sell them on the black market to other members of the resistance movement.

Or I could move to another country.

[kpmom]

Their great theocracy would last about 20 minutes before at least two colossal patriarchal egos collided, gathered loyal factions, and proceeded to kill enemy troopers in a war of attrition over some minor point of doctrine such as infant baptism or whether women should be allowed to sing in the church choir (assuming song would be permitted at all). Then people would come to their senses and swear never to allow that bullshit again.

This is my thought too.

It's not that we shouldn't be vigilant about fundies taking over our governments and passing laws, but I'm trying to picture these "headships" actually agreeing on anything. Sooner or later one of 'em would have to submit compromise with another, and you know that's never going to happen.

Steve Maxwell would want to outlaw contrasting buttons on women's clothes, and Beall Phillips would whine to Doug in private about having to give up half her wardrobe, and the Botkin sisters would want to develop a 4 week, $125 webinar, "Biblical Support for Contrasting Buttons", and Abigail would say she's giving up contrasting buttons for lent, but then she'd keep wearing them, and Kendall would take her daughters' contrasting buttons away, but only if they acted like they liked them as much as Christmas presents, and Lori would say if only wives would submit more, no one would wear contrasting buttons (unless Ken said they should), and then all hell would break loose.

[salex]

I really wish that the American news would report on Dominionism and call it a threat to our democracy.

Me too. I'd thought it was way fringy, until last summer, when I realized some politician/inlaws/my state were all neck deep in it. I was sickened, literally, but it, but when I talk about it, I know I sound disjointed and conspiracy theorist about it, so I don't talk about it and won't until I have a good source. My husband is coming around, thanks to a few books I've found. But mostly, it is the language used by the politicized religious power mobs. After all, what could be wrong with a prayer group.....

I wish the news would focus more on the complete power hungry nutjobbery behind the seemingly innocent facade.

[hoipolloi]

Their great theocracy would last about 20 minutes before at least two colossal patriarchal egos collided, gathered loyal factions, and proceeded to kill enemy troopers in a war of attrition over some minor point of doctrine such as infant baptism or whether women should be allowed to sing in the church choir (assuming song would be permitted at all).

QFT.

My first rule of conflict: let the assholes get in a fight with each other.

These idiots can't even agree on doctrine; there's no way they could handle running a government of any size.

[crazyforkate]

I would join La Resistance, or else try to find a way to get out. Not easy because on one side you have the States and on the other...the States. (I figure if Canada went fundie America would have already done so). Greenland?

Of course, I might just knuckle under, marry someone Godly and become a breeding machine. I tend to follow rules a little too often.