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Intensive mothering


YPestis

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I think it has always been there, to some degree. My grandma and her sisters were talking to me once about how weird it is to see their children and grandchildren raising their own children in accordance with today's culture/"expert" recommendations, when compared to how they were told to raise children years ago. My great-aunts then started talking about how when their babies were born, they were all told by their doctors that formula was a modern miracle and they should not breastfeed. My grandmother was too broke to afford formula, and all my great-aunts admitted to laying in to her and accusing her of not valuing the health and wellness of her children because she wouldn't make room in the budget for formula. My grandma got in the last laugh with that one, but it became clear to me in that conversation that mommy wars were always there.

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For me, as my son gets older (preschool now), I do find more and more of the competitive parenting. And if I am not careful, I do feel pressured that I am not mothering enough/correctly/creatively etc if I read all the blogs and mommy boards. But on the other end of it, I have a number of friends with children who have moderate to severe developmental problems and the blogs and boards they have are invaluable. Not only do these moms really have more of a voice than in generations past but they have allowed me to get a better grasp of how freaking lucky I am to have two healthy children.

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I found the internet a good source for information and camaraderie esp when a lot of my choices and the way I felt about raising children was different to what friends, neighbours and family told me. I started out mothering before I had internet and WOW what a world opened up when I could goggle cloth nappies when everyone around me was using disposables and I was laughed at for using them. Same for extended breastfeeding and having more than 2 children amongst others.

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I learned fairly quickly not to read the Mommy boards lol. I was browsing Babycenter one day. Lil Bit wasn't quite a month old yet, but one of the posts for my "Birth Club" was asking about playing with their children. All of these moms had black and white mobiles and different toys to stimulate their child and make them "smarter" For a moment, I felt rather inadequate that all MY baby had was me and a second hand bouncy chair that played music and lights and vibrated. Then I thought about it, and realized "She's three weeks old. She sleeps, eats, and poops. She doesn't NEED toys right now!" She still doesnt have a whole lot of toys, but I think right now they are mostly for my amusement... if that makes sense. People have been raising babies for centuries without toys and they turned out okay.

Two weeks ago there was a girl about my age with a baby about the same age as mine. I started talking to her, after we established our babies were the same age, she asked me "Do you breast feed?" I said "No, I can't." She just looked at me funny and walked away.

I'm not terribly worried about my daughters development. She seems to be doing fine to me. She is enjoying life and having fun, and that is all that matters to me. If I am concerned about something, I bring it up at the doctors office. I don't do everything by the book, but I follow my instincts. She is still alive and she is happy so as far as I am concerned, everythings good. It is easy to feel inadequate sometimes when everyone has an opinion about how you are raising your child. I think the key is to remember its YOUR child and nobody can tell you how to raise them... as long as they are taken care of and loved, it doesn't matter if you homeschool or I co sleep or Regina down the road buys all the latest gadgets guarenteed to make your child the smartest kid in the world.

I'm using cloth diapers, and contemplating elimination communication (not sure if I really want to go there yet... anyone on here try that?) and its hard when everyone thinks you are insane for it. I feel like telling them "Then YOU buy her diapers, AND her diaper rash cream because I can't afford to buy eleventy billion diapers a month and keep up with the constant diaper rashes that ensue."

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My son and I went to Admitted Students Day at one of the colleges he was accepted to (he has to decide and send in the deposit by 5/1). Looking around the room at these bright accomplished kids, it was quite difficult to determine who was breastfed or how they were diapered.

I liked your post. But, I didn't use cloth because it would do something for my baby, I did it because it was wasteful and expensive to use disposables full time. Our sleeping arragements were something that made sense for us and took our children's needs into account, I moved them around in a way that worked physically and emotionally for all of us in each situation (that's code for sling/stroller), yada yada yada. My kids will be at Harvard because of their genes and schooling, they'll (hopefully) be good people because of the way we parent them.

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I've just read the OP so far....we're running into more than one generation of educated parents (probably 3rd or 4th- I was born in '71 and my mother and many contemporaries were professionals ). What's different is that thru the internet there's just so much more opportunity to share, learn, and one-up or be offended by the next mother out there. I remember getting into vicious fights on the ivillage Attachment Parenting board way back in 99 and of course, there was the great PB war here, even.

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I liked your post. But, I didn't use cloth because it would do something for my baby, I did it because it was wasteful and expensive to use disposables full time. Our sleeping arragements were something that made sense for us and took our children's needs into account, I moved them around in a way that worked physically and emotionally for all of us in each situation (that's code for sling/stroller), yada yada yada. My kids will be at Harvard because of their genes and schooling, they'll (hopefully) be good people because of the way we parent them.

Yeah I feel like a good deal of my parenting decisions come down to the fact that I'm cheap. I don't think my kids will go to Harvard because they were cloth diapered or breastfed but I know I'm saving a ton of money to pay for college (or trade school or whatever) by doing those things.

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I was not familiar with Ms. Badinter. I just ordered a copy of The Conflict from Amazon. Thanks!

Elisabeth Badinter is not exactly non-biased when it comes to breast v formula. She has very close ties to the Nestle Corporation which has perhaps been the largest and most deceitful of promoters of artificial baby milks in the developing world. They have certainly been the most deceitful. They used to have women dressed up as nurses giving out samples of their formula powder. The mothers would not be given out enough milk to sustain their infants for very long, but long enough to undermine their milk supply. These mothers were often illiterate and poor. They could not read the preparation instructions on the can of formula concentrate or powder so they frequently over-diluted the milk. It still looked white so it must be ok, right? Wrong! The water that they used to mix the formula was often polluted, as well. Many babies died as the result of Nestle's deceptive marketing practices.

Ms Badinter is also not a feminist.

ETA: I hate the term "full-time mother", too, Feberin, even though I've been a SAHM for years.

FMJ, I think there was a former poster on here that did EC. I don't recall who it was, though, but I think they bolted in all the Alecto drama. I heard a couple of pediatricians express their thoughts on EC on CNN a couple of years ago. One doctor pointed out that infants did not have the capacity to exercise bladder or bowel control until they could walk. And Dr T Berry Brazelton asked the question "Is this how you really want to spend your time with your baby in the first year of life" Babies aren't bothered by being wet or poopy if they're not cold or rashy. Rather we as mothers are bothered by them being "dirty". I do know one thing: It's irritating to have led a young mother's meeting having to pee the last half of the meeting and then, when you are finally able to go, find the only bathroom occupied by an 8 month old! She used up the last bit of TP, too!

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I'm using cloth diapers, and contemplating elimination communication (not sure if I really want to go there yet... anyone on here try that?) and its hard when everyone thinks you are insane for it. I feel like telling them "Then YOU buy her diapers, AND her diaper rash cream because I can't afford to buy eleventy billion diapers a month and keep up with the constant diaper rashes that ensue."

We started using EC when my son started solids- easier than rinsing! You can read their cues fairly easily, and I haven't changed a #2 diaper in quite a while. He loves sitting on the soft bumbo potty seat and will go almost on command now. He will even bang on the bathroom door until I open it and thenhe will put the potty seat on himself and wait for me to place him on it. He is 15 months and I am hoping it will make potty training easier! :) We weren't

strict EC'ers, but as with most things, I do what works for my family!

(I am strangely hippy in some ways- non-circ, cloth diaper, baby led solids (no baby food, ever), babywearing, breastfeeding- but just because those elements worked for me. I am also very pro vaccine (as a pedi nurse), we "only" BF for 13 months, we don't co-sleep, I have no problem telling my son NO, we do timeout, we sleep trained, etc. so I don't fit in well with either crowd! I am too crunchy for the "normal" non-APers and not crunchy/AP enough and downright barbaric for many natural mamas. :) doesn't bother me!

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My friend spent a year in china doing language immersion. She said that EC is common there. Some parents cant afford diapers. Most parents she saw used a whistle as their command. They were attentive to their child's body language and knew when their child needed to go. She was living in an area where there was a lot of poverty. She said that the parents EC because of the cost of diapers. With cloth diapers, you have to wash them. That requires a reliable water source. Some families could not afford to wash the cloth diapers routinely.

I say do what you think is best for your family.

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I am pretty much the same although I did breastfeed for a little longer and we tried co-sleeping and it didn't work. And we do strollers sometimes. Luckily most "normal" mothers think most things are cool except the non-circumcision then they tell you about infections and such. And there is that funny moment when trying to help they offer to toss you diaper. It's he natural crowd that looks down on you when you stick your LO in a stroller. But they don't vaccinate so it's probably for the best that I didn't fit in and avoided any outbreaks.

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I'm not totally convinced that the "mommy wars" is even a real thing. Aren't there a lot of schools of thought about a lot of different things? If we saw computer programmers debating in blog form about the best way to write a program to do xyz, would we call it "computer programmer wars"? Maybe things get more passionate in mom to mom debates and it's definitely more sensitive, but when we're talking about caring for young children, it really is an important topic. In a lot of ways, I feel like the "mommy wars" term is a way of demeaning women for devoting time and energy to the topic of raising children, as if it's all about competition and unjustified anxiety rather than people truly trying to find the best way to do a difficult job. As for the internet, like other posters have said I have really appreciated it as a resource to make educated parenting choices. Without kellymom.com, I might have listened to the terrible breastfeeding advice that I got from almost everyone I know, including our pediatrician and might have caved to the pressure to get my 2 month old "on a schedule" instead of responding to his needs. I also don't think I would have nursed him into the second year (or at least not confidently) without all the information I got from breastfeeding blogs. For me, all the info that I got on attachment parenting/breastfeeding/cloth diapering blah blah blah gave me the confidence to make the choices that I already wanted to make and that already felt right to me. I think a lot of the information about slightly higher IQ's, fewer ear infections etc. that looks like competitive "mommy wars" is really just the business case for doing what we want to do anyway.

I also don't think it is about large vs. small families. I think you can be a super laid back Mom of 1 or 2 or 6 or however many children and you can also be an extremely performance oriented Mom of any number of children up to 19 or so... Look at some of these fundy families--do you think it's laid back and mellow to be "switching" your baby so that you can show off how they sit quietly through 2 hours of church? I don't think so. The bottom line is that there are different forms of "intensive mothering"--there are moms who are aware and responsive to their children's needs (which requires a lot of energy) and then there are moms who are INTENSIVELY focused on making their children be a certain way so that mom looks good (which also requires a lot of energy). I feel like the two get conflated when they are actually extremely different parenting styles.

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I am pretty much the same although I did breastfeed for a little longer and we tried co-sleeping and it didn't work. And we do strollers sometimes. Luckily most "normal" mothers think most things are cool except the non-circumcision then they tell you about infections and such. And there is that funny moment when trying to help they offer to toss you diaper. It's he natural crowd that looks down on you when you stick your LO in a stroller. But they don't vaccinate so it's probably for the best that I didn't fit in and avoided any outbreaks.

Oh yeah, we definitely use strollers, too. Once again, whatever works is my motto! Yes, the strange looks about non-vax are the best. I am having a hard time deciding whether or not to let my son play in that playgroup (so far, it has been mom only meetings) and the leader is very non-vax. I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut!

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Part of what fuels "mommy wars", as opposed to debates about anything else, is the sheer emotional intensity of it. A lot of it is a first-time mom thing.

For non-parents who simply can't relate, try this experiment:

1. Set a timer to go off every 3 hours. When it goes off, spend 20 minutes rubbing your nipples with a stiff towel or even a fine-grade sandpaper. Just when your nipples start to bleed and you are screaming in pain for this to stop, have someone in a white coat lecture you about how this is the best thing for your baby, give you a list of health risks that your baby will face if you don't do it, and tell you that you just need to try harder. Your mother-in-law will also tell you that you are doing everything wrong, since her doctor told her to feed the baby exactly 4 oz every 4 hours on the dot, adding rice cereal to the bottles if the baby got hungry in between bottles, and she loving made pureed meat and veggies from scratch from the time that the baby was 2 months old. She suspects that your doctor is a quack, or that you are too lazy to properly feed the baby, and worried that the baby is starving to death.

2. While still doing step 1, get up at 1 am every night and bounce around a sack of flour until 5 am. Rig this bag of flour so that if you stop bouncing or try to set it down for a moment, it will let out a high pitched wail, and if you put in down for 5 min or more, it will explode with a puke mixture. Repeat for 2 weeks. Just as you are about to go insane from sleep deprivation, arrange to have a parenting expert tell you about the importance of nighttime parenting and give you the results of a study showing that kids who don't get enough of it end up with serious psychological problems, and immediately after that have your mother call and tell you that she never had this problem and you should just put the sack of flour down and close the door and deal with wailing and puke mix for the next week just like your cousin did. No, your mother does not offer to help clean up the puke every night or to listen to the wailing.

3. Now, imagine logging onto Babycenter and debating breast vs. formula feeding, or co-sleeping vs. cry-it-out. You are going to be cranky and emotional, no matter what.

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I think we're ALL (not just parents) supposed to feel worried and anxious about all decisions we make, because the prevailing "market-based" view is that if anything bad happens to you at all, it's all your own fault due to your own "bad choices." Add to that, this constant drumbeat about how things are getting harder, things are getting more competitive, if you don't do everything exactly right, you're going to be a loser in this grand competition, and that will just be the end of you, you deserve no compassion because it must be all due to your own "bad choices." (And of course the market is right there to tell you what you should BUY to make the "right choice"...)

Now throw a kid into the mix - if you don't do everything exactly right for your kid, give your kid every exact sliiiiiight possible edge, you're surely dooming your kid to failure from the START. There are just so many opportunities for you to screw up!! Better be vigilant!

So people really don't want to hear that might be "doing it wrong" on any small issue, and get very defensive.

This is a really good analysis.

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This is a really good analysis.

True.

You also have this false sense of control. In reality, specific parenting decisions have little impact on parenting. There is a ton of genetic stuff that is simply beyond our control, plus some other medical factors that we can't control, and then peers and other environmental factors often have more influence than parents. It's more comforting for parents to believe that they have more control than they do, and it's easier for everyone else to assume that other parents are responsible for any bad outcomes.

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I'm not totally convinced that the "mommy wars" is even a real thing. Aren't there a lot of schools of thought about a lot of different things? If we saw computer programmers debating in blog form about the best way to write a program to do xyz, would we call it "computer programmer wars"?

IMO the difference is that I have never gone on a programmers' forum and seen programmers saying to each other, "if you choose to program in C# instead of in Java you are a BAD PERSON and your job should be taken away from you." Whereas many folks on parenting forums have not yet learned how to disagree without insinuating that parenting choices that differ from their own are evil and harmful and neglectful.

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I liked your post. But, I didn't use cloth because it would do something for my baby, I did it because it was wasteful and expensive to use disposables full time. Our sleeping arragements were something that made sense for us and took our children's needs into account, I moved them around in a way that worked physically and emotionally for all of us in each situation (that's code for sling/stroller), yada yada yada. My kids will be at Harvard because of their genes and schooling, they'll (hopefully) be good people because of the way we parent them.

That is why I do it, too. And you can resell the cloth on eBay and make a lot of your investment back when you are done! No diaper rash with the cloth diaper baby after two years of cloth. I still have the same jar of ointment I bought when she came home.

I have to be honest that as someone who works more than full time in a demanding job at a large nonprofit, SAHM talking about about difficult the "job" is drive me insane. I go to work at 7 to get home by kindergarten dismissal at 2:30 and usually work after bedtime. I pick up my daughter at daycare because at the same time because we do not want her there more than 7 hours. I do the lessons, the playground after school, the playdates and pretty much everything the neighborhood stay at homes do PLUS work full time. I don't get the honor of spending that core 7 hours with my kids, but that is about all I do that is different from the SAHMs in my neighborhood. Most of them think I am one of them, in fact. Yet that job is considered harder. My husband and I both wonder how. I just roll my eyes and move on, but the fact is that none of us should be judged or judging for choices- we all have to make it work as best we can and as long as we are trying to be good parents and make good people, I am not sure what else matters.

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When strangers ask I say I am a childcare worker. Stay at home mom sounds dumb to me, housewife is insulting. Someone needs to care for young children. Whether you do it yourself or outsource it, its labor that is important to society.

Ugh did you get "the look" when you said you were a stay at home mom? I think childcare worker sounds much better, and I think I'm going to start using that. Any time I tell people I'm a SAHM they just say "Ooooooohhh...ooookay..."

(edit: i suck at quoting)

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My own experience is that people are harder on mothers than fathers. I have had complete strangers tell me that I needed to get my step-daughter's eyes checked because of the angle at which she's holding a book or that I shouldn't praise my step-daughter's artistic abilities because it will inflate her ego or that I needed to get them smaller backpacks because the ones they were wearing seemed too bulky. Each time my husband was standing right there. I get to field the unsolicited parenting suggestions and advice while their father gets a big ol' parenting pass.

One time we were having a picnic in the park, just me and the girls. A mother stopped by to ask me if that was soy milk they were drinking and didn't I know all the phytoestrogens they were consuming? And were they wearing sunscreen in addition to their hats? Later that week their dad took them to the same park, where they picnicked on an old packet of cookies he'd found in his car and a can of Diet Pepsi. Later one of the girls started crying because she grabbed a metal ladder that had been baking in sun all afternoon. Not one of those park mothers - not one - said a word to him. I swear they would have called CPS on me. :roll:

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My own experience is that people are harder on mothers than fathers. I have had complete strangers tell me that I needed to get my step-daughter's eyes checked because of the angle at which she's holding a book or that I shouldn't praise my step-daughter's artistic abilities because it will inflate her ego or that I needed to get them smaller backpacks because the ones they were wearing seemed too bulky. Each time my husband was standing right there. I get to field the unsolicited parenting suggestions and advice while their father gets a big ol' parenting pass.

One time we were having a picnic in the park, just me and the girls. A mother stopped by to ask me if that was soy milk they were drinking and didn't I know all the phytoestrogens they were consuming? And were they wearing sunscreen in addition to their hats? Later that week their dad took them to the same park, where they picnicked on an old packet of cookies he'd found in his car and a can of Diet Pepsi. Later one of the girls started crying because she grabbed a metal ladder that had been baking in sun all afternoon. Not one of those park mothers - not one - said a word to him. I swear they would have called CPS on me. :roll:

Hands-on dads get one of two reactions:

1. Shock that they are actually being hands-on dads, bizarre (and possibly illegal) questions from bosses like "why would you want to take parental leave?" (when it is a legal right written into his contract), comments that he must be "whipped" and jokes questioning his manhood.

2. Instant adoration, esp. from other women. I do all of the carpools, make all the lunches, do all the grocery shopping and cooking, and do 90% of the errands and running around with the kids, I'm home when hubby is working late or at meetings, but he is the hero because he does the soccer and hockey, and actually attends parent-teacher interviews with me. I'm glad he does it, but yeah - there's a double standard.

There's also my favorite line from my hubby on parental leave and from several divorced dads that I know: "You have NO IDEA how hard and tiring parenting is!" I just laugh and laugh.

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I have to be honest that as someone who works more than full time in a demanding job at a large nonprofit, SAHM talking about about difficult the "job" is drive me insane. I go to work at 7 to get home by kindergarten dismissal at 2:30 and usually work after bedtime. I pick up my daughter at daycare because at the same time because we do not want her there more than 7 hours. I do the lessons, the playground after school, the playdates and pretty much everything the neighborhood stay at homes do PLUS work full time. I don't get the honor of spending that core 7 hours with my kids, but that is about all I do that is different from the SAHMs in my neighborhood. Most of them think I am one of them, in fact. Yet that job is considered harder. My husband and I both wonder how. I just roll my eyes and move on, but the fact is that none of us should be judged or judging for choices- we all have to make it work as best we can and as long as we are trying to be good parents and make good people, I am not sure what else matters.

QFT.

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I have to be honest that as someone who works more than full time in a demanding job at a large nonprofit, SAHM talking about about difficult the "job" is drive me insane. I go to work at 7 to get home by kindergarten dismissal at 2:30 and usually work after bedtime. I pick up my daughter at daycare because at the same time because we do not want her there more than 7 hours. I do the lessons, the playground after school, the playdates and pretty much everything the neighborhood stay at homes do PLUS work full time. I don't get the honor of spending that core 7 hours with my kids, but that is about all I do that is different from the SAHMs in my neighborhood. Most of them think I am one of them, in fact. Yet that job is considered harder. My husband and I both wonder how. I just roll my eyes and move on, but the fact is that none of us should be judged or judging for choices- we all have to make it work as best we can and as long as we are trying to be good parents and make good people, I am not sure what else matters.

As someone who has done both the SAHM and WOHM thing, I have to object to putting "job" in quotations.

The stress that comes from juggling is something that a SAHM doesn't face, but otherwise, the parent at home IS working. If they are at all competent, they are caring for a child, and if a stranger is doing the same thing, they are getting paid for it and considered to be working. Working those 7 hours would not be possible if someone else wasn't providing care during that time.

Parenting is also a 24/7 job. The difficulty will depend on what is going on 24/7, not just Monday to Friday, 9-5. If a SAHM is not getting any help at home from a spouse who works long hours, and if she has a particularly demanding baby that isn't allowing her to sleep, then yes, it's a demanding job. By the same token, the working mom who spends every single moment that she's not at work with a baby attached to her (which is exactly what baby #1 did) is very much a hands-on mom. I spent more time with baby #1, even though I went back to work full-time when she was 7 months, than I did with baby #3, when I was a SAHM until he was 14 months, because he spent most of his first year asleep.

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Want a quick example of what new moms face?

Read this: http://kellymom.com/bf/advocacy/bf_and_guilt_01-00/

One side of me loves Dr. Jack Newman, because he is a staunch advocate for breastfeeding, and I was able to get a quick response when I had a question and he did see my sister and niece.

Another side of me can't stand him because of articles like this, and because his advocacy can something get in the way of acting like a compassionate human being so he can come off as a jerk. Yes, I think that health care professionals need to ensure that bf moms have the proper support that they need. I don't think that you also need to throw in comparisons to moms drinking or smoking.

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1. Shock that they are actually being hands-on dads, bizarre (and possibly illegal) questions from bosses like "why would you want to take parental leave?" (when it is a legal right written into his contract), comments that he must be "whipped" and jokes questioning his manhood.

2. Instant adoration, esp. from other women. I do all of the carpools, make all the lunches, do all the grocery shopping and cooking, and do 90% of the errands and running around with the kids, I'm home when hubby is working late or at meetings, but he is the hero because he does the soccer and hockey, and actually attends parent-teacher interviews with me. I'm glad he does it, but yeah - there's a double standard.

There's also my favorite line from my hubby on parental leave and from several divorced dads that I know: "You have NO IDEA how hard and tiring parenting is!" I just laugh and laugh.

I actually lost a friend over #2 when I insinuated that it was wrong, stupid, sexist and homophobic for somebody to not allow their sons to have dolls. Their son in law has the opinion that boys can't have dolls, yet since he is slightly hands on he is wonderful. Because I said that the attitude was stupid, I was calling the SIL stupid.

I think that just how involved my brother (who adored his two dolls as a child, and is still straight) would blow her mind.

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