Darby Sproul

[LilMissMetaphor]

While I certainly believe that 1. We can all work together for a common cause, e.g., the saving of lives, and 2. It is certainly possible that there are those under the umbrella of the Roman Catholic church have been granted genuine and saving faith, I think it is one of the most severe weaknesses of the pro life community that because we work with and love these people, we want to say that they are all our brothers and sisters in Christ.

This is 100% false, and a profoundly dangerous line of thinking. We are not one with them. We can and ought to preach the Gospel to them in love, but the mindset that "we are all Christians" is far too common and more harmful than most of us realize.

She's such an unrelenting bitch. Hello, I am pretty sure the 2nd commandment doesn't run: "Love thy neighbor unless he's Catholic, in which case he's totally not your brother in Christ."

[Abby_B]

Is this from her facebook or blog? Do you have a link?

[ladyamylynn]

Looks like sombody's been reading Chick tracts!! If you're not familiar with the classic "The Death Cookie" I would highly recommend checking it out.

chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp

I never will understand the hate-boner most fundies have for Catholics. My fundie Aunt and Uncle were missionaries to Poland, of all places. Poland is 95% Christian, but 91% of the Christians there are "the wrong kind" so naturally my idiot relatives had to go try to convert them to some whacked out form of Calvinism. So glad I don't talk to that side of the family any more. :roll:

[hearyoume08]

Hell even my super fundie great aunt was a "if you believe in god your good"person. She would chide her fellow southern baptists when they said things like this.

[Arete]

All those evangelical Protestants are just jealous because the Catholics/Orthodox have prettier churches, cooler vestments, and better music. To say nothing of the fact that our idolatrous asses compiled the Bible into the book they worship.

[uber frau]

She's just regurgitating the standard reformed retoric she's been spoonfeed since birth. The Forms of Unity held by conservative Reformed churches are relics of the reformation and spend a great deal of time defending the Protestant position against the enemy of the day. If she's had half the traditional religious education of most kids who grow up in this environment, it's no wonder she's been left with the distinct impression that Catholic theology is incompatible with Christianity, and since she's been taught to avoid critical thought or challenging the Reformed framework, it's likely to stay that way. Considering where she's come from, the idea that some Catholics might be Christian is almost enlightened.

[yewchapel]

All those evangelical Protestants are just jealous because the Catholics/Orthodox have prettier churches, cooler vestments, and better music. To say nothing of the fact that our idolatrous asses compiled the Bible into the book they worship.

Hey, don't forget the Anglicans/Episcopalians! ;) Probably not Sydney Anglicans, mind....

[yewchapel]

Most Christians around the world belong to a liturgical denomination, ie are ~idolatrous according to conservative Reformed Protestants. Most are Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, with smaller numbers of Oriental Orthodox, Coptic, Oriental Catholic, Anglican/Episcopalian and Lutheran Christians. All of those denominations use vestments, believe in more than a memorialist interpretation of Holy Communion (exact interpretations vary), celebrate saints' days and often have different books in the Bible. Conservative Reformed Protestants (not all are evangelical, some uber-Calvinists do not evangelise) are a tiny minority of the world's Christians.

[MamaJunebug]

She's such an unrelenting bitch. Hello, I am pretty sure the 2nd commandment doesn't run: "Love thy neighbor unless he's Catholic, in which case he's totally not your in Christ."

Gentlemen and ladies, the Christian equivalent of Sunnis and Shiites, of Lubavitchers and Reformed!!! Isn't it just grand to know that the desert religions can't get their acts together after millenia of existence? :(

It seriously makes me sad and crazy to read stuff like this. Some years ago a devout, conservative Roman Catholic friend of mine invited me to consider joining her small-group Bible study, and the rest is history. I'll never join that church, they'll never join mine, but we have learned over those years that our shared beliefs are 90, 95% of how we live, worship and carry out the Great Commission. The 5-10% where we disagree? - in our experience, we can continue to disagree, agreeably. And we all expect to see each other in Heaven eventually.

(Of course, there was the day when I reported that Saint Anthony really did help me find something, and I heard one of my friends gasp to her husband, 'Lutherans using Saint Anthony?!" with a bit of frustration and do-not-like .... :D )

Poor Darby.

[Jana814]

From what I noticed w/ Fundies is this. Unless u follow & believe in what they believe in they think that you will go to hell. Even if someone tells them they are Catholic & go to mass every week.

The ones who probably the most nortious in doing this are the Maxwells.

[Arete]

Hey, don't forget the Anglicans/Episcopalians! ;) Probably not Sydney Anglicans, mind....

A sin of ommission. Of course we include the Anglicans/Episcopalians in the vestment wearing, better music, smells and bells idolatrous confederation. :D

[uber frau]

When I ran away from the Reformed mob I grew up in and joined the Sydney Anglican's (yeah, I know but it was the first stepping stone to enlightenment), my mum was slighty scandalised that the pastor wore a frock (and even a few frilly bits for festive days). Compared to were I came from, even the Jensenites looked

[Jinger Jar]

One of my grandmother's sisters married a Methodist and was summarily ostracized by her very Catholic family. This was back in the 1940's.

Fast forward to the mid-1970's. My senior year at my Catholic high school I was required to do an ecumenical capstone project in my religious studies class, which entailed visiting two houses of worship and, if possible, attending a religious service at each.

My grandmother suggested I give her sister a call to see if it would be Okay for me to attend church with her. Grandmother would not call her herself because they had not spoken in 30 years. Aunt Rose was delighted to have me tag along to an evening prayer service. So there I was, in my school uniform with the crucifix embroidered on the blazer pocket, agog because I had never been in a non-Catholic church before, not knowing what to expect, and wondering where the holy water fonts and confessionals and statues of Mary and St. Joseph were.

At the end of the service Aunt Rose made it a point to introduce me to the minister, who was talking to a group of eight or ten people. After the introductions she said, "Please keep Jinger in your prayers even though she is a Catholic."

If there had been a hole in the floor, I would have gladly fallen into it.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Is this from her facebook or blog? Do you have a link?

Sorry, been offline for a bit. Yeah, she's on FB as Darby Maeve Sproul.

[DefraudedByPlaid]

Looks like sombody's been reading Chick tracts!! If you're not familiar with the classic "The Death Cookie" I would highly recommend checking it out.

chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp

I never will understand the hate-boner most fundies have for Catholics. My fundie Aunt and Uncle were missionaries to Poland, of all places. Poland is 95% Christian, but 91% of the Christians there are "the wrong kind" so naturally my idiot relatives had to go try to convert them to some whacked out form of Calvinism. So glad I don't talk to that side of the family any more. :roll:

Oh my, that tract :( I grew up attending a Baptist school and an Assemblies of God church, both of which kind of skipped over Church History until the Reformation (as if REAL Christianity took a break after the original apostles and did not re-emerge until Martin Luther did his thang). Thankfully, my parents are not of that mentality and taught me not to discount other traditions blindly and unthinkingly, but instead to be open to the possibility that God just may be a bit larger than our own version of how things "should" be done.

Some of the old churches in Jerusalem illustrate the diversity of the Church beautiful. There are churches that were literally built one layer on top of another by many different Christians over the centuries, under many different regimes and by people of many different persuasions. That brief visit was also my first real exposure to more Coptic/Orthodox forms of worship, which were very beautiful (and, by the way, felt a lot closer to the culture of the historical Jesus than any other services I've been in).

How sad not to be able to learn from other people of faith who may have strengths in areas that we are weak in. And how sad not to be able to learn from people who don't share your same faith but might, JUST might, sometimes be better at exhibiting some of the qualities we espouse.

[MamaJunebug]

I'm having major trouble with religions - any religions - that demonize The Other.

My friend who recently died by her own hand was the daughter of a couple who married each other late in life. The man (my friend's father) had had a long-term affair with someone outside his faith.

His parents delivered an ultimatum and he broke up with her (she then took her own life) to marry someone of his faith, of whom the parents approved. The marriage was troubled and though they raised my friend in the faith it did little to comfort or encourage her.

There was a history of mental illness, granted, but I've briefly wondered if my friend would've had a better chance at a happy life, had her dad married his first lover, taken the wrath of the family, and raised his daughter in a religion-less but loving home.

IN any case, it's becoming increasingly difficult for me to listen to people yawp about differences and not want to just walk away. Last night, I listened to friends of one denominaiton fret at length, that their godchild was in mortal danger because her parents had switched denominations. It's left me regretful that I had to hear the discussion .. it's made me impatient with my friends' ... what do I call it? "spiritual xenophobia"?????

Poor Darby's caught up in what many people of many faiths - and non-faiths - are. Sad.

[DefraudedByPlaid]

MamaJunebug, I'm so sorry to hear about your friend and this situation.

It definitely puts this issue in perspective - when you feel that you have to go to certain lengths to fit into what others expect of you, but it's not what you want, you could be setting yourself up for many difficulties down the road. It is indeed very sad.

ETA: I just reread my post and realized how generic my last comment sounded (DUH, of course it means you're setting yourself up for many difficulties! I blame the late hour.). I meant to link this back to the religion discussion and say that in the name of dogma or denominationalism, forcing someone to do something isn't going to result in good things for them. If I were to sincerely believe one of my religion's tenets is true and could be beneficial for someone (e.g. such-and-such is critical for salvation, etc.), if I force them into it what's the point? Kind of like forced religious conversions back in the day (and heck, still a lot of religious intolerance in our world today). Are you REALLY "saving someone's soul" if they're going through the motions to please you? Better to respect their humanity and allow them the dignity of a choice, which is what we all deserve.

And again, I'm saddened to read about your friend and her family.