Jump to content
IGNORED

Kids Never need Milk! Or juice!


AddieBelle

Recommended Posts

I can't imagine they were too enamoured with the first person who ate the unhatched young out of a chicken's bum either.

It tastes better to you.

I wonder it about a lot of things. A person has to be really desperate to figure out that olives would be edible after being soaked in lye too. But wondering doesn't mean that I don't enjoy the discovery. I like that I live in a time and place where I can enjoy my food, and that includes milk. (I like hazelnut and coconut milk, but prefer real dairy)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 276
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I love milk! I grew up in WI so got it fresh from the cow, that was the best! No pasteurized, homoginized, hormoned stuff for us. And guess what? I'm alive and very healthy. I miss fresh cow's milk so much though.

Still warm....yummy!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The last couple of generations of Americans were raised with little or no dairy and milk. They don't drink milk as adults. They avoid cheese, because it makes them gassy. They don't like cottage cheese. The cheese and dairy they do eat is artificial. Not really the real deal. Like coffee creamers, Cool Whip dessert topping, nacho cheese products, Velveeta and American cheeses. Not really dairy, folks. Whey. Made from soy, wheat and flour and lard. If there's no demand for that enzyme, it will naturally taper off.

Can you tell me where this statistic is from? My grandparents and parents were/are all milk drinkers. (milk in coffee, milk in cereal, or in ice cream or in milk shakes.) They also were not very into overly processed foods for the most part. They cooked from scratch, and were raised cooking from scratch. One of our favorite treats from my grandma born in 1917 was what we called a milkshake, but it's more of a milk based smoothie, with a banana, frozen strawberries and acidopholis milk. I don't ever remember American cheese at either of their houses, and no cool whip either, you made your own whipped cream!

And, my mom and grandpa grew up on raw milk from my great grandma's Jerseys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anybody else get terrible gas from almond milk? I love it on my muesli, but i'm fairly sure i'm almondtose intolerant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm fairly certain that it's possible to be allergic to milk because one of my Sunday school students can't have any dairy at all, not even butter, which is often digestible for the lactose-intolerant. She says that if she has any she has to go to the hospital. Her dad says that she really has an allergy, not one of those digestive issues called an allergy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never drank milk for years, and in dealing with the anorexia it's given me osteopenia and a vitamin D level so low it's a single digit. On my current meal plan I have to have 8oz of milk (1%) OR a yogurt with every meal.

I don't think milk itself is important so long as you're getting your vitamin D and calcium from other sources.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm fairly certain that it's possible to be allergic to milk because one of my Sunday school students can't have any dairy at all, not even butter, which is often digestible for the lactose-intolerant. She says that if she has any she has to go to the hospital. Her dad says that she really has an allergy, not one of those digestive issues called an allergy.

It is possible to be allergic to milk. Whenever I saw milk allergy indicated on a health history further questioning usually indicated it was lactose intolerance but sometimes it was allergy. Most notably milk allergy can cause increased respiratory secretions, including fluid in the ears. Stopping milk is sometimes enough to cause the fluid in the ears to go away.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know, every time these debates come up I wind up deciding that I would rather eat stuff that makes me happy and live a short life than eat healthy food I hate and have a long, miserable life. I know first hand the way being forced to eat food you don't really like every day messes with your head. Lucky for me, I like a decent mix of junk and healthful things just fine.

Also, dairy products are great. I think I would go insane without dairy- I don't like soy milk, almond milk, OR coconut milk, and I hate tomatoes, the usually substitute for cream sauces in the US. Luckily, I shouldn't have my mom's lactaid allergy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not a big juice drinker. I usually have some lemonade in the summer and orange juice or apple juice when I am sick but other than that I don't really drink it. I like milk but I don't drink it everyday. I'm starting to be interested in cheese making. Since I have started that hobby I tend to get a gallon of milk each weekend in order to try out different types of cheese recipes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kids definitely don't need juice, even the 100% kind. It's a major reason for the childhood obesity epidemic - people giving toddlers and up juice to drink all the time to sip. I'm assuming this blogger is in the US, where we all have access to clean water. If your kid is thirsty, that's what he should be drinking. Children and adults should be obtaining their daily recommended servings of fruit as actual fruit, complete with fiber.

Per the ADA: http://www.eatright.org/Public/content.aspx?id=8055 (see section on Fruit)

The kid of one of my relatives was like this, and her parents acted all surprised when they stopped her giving juice boxes and then her appetite increased and they could get her to eat normally at mealtimes. No wonder she wasn't hungry, with all the sugar she must have been taking.

I don't see anything wrong with drinking juice occasionally, but what's the point of having it all the time. As a child I drank OJ in the morning (from pressing oranges) and otherwise water.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Anonymous
I do agree with commercial juice. You may as well drink Pepsi or Coke. Juice is better made at home with a blender.

Commercial juice is the same- it's just sugar water.

I get that whole fruit contains more fibre, but do you honestly believe that a product labelled "100% pure orange juice" is going to be the nutritional equivalent of Pepsi or sugar water?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QFT. The cow's milk that most of us grew up with is not the cow's milk of today. rGBH was approved for use in 1993, and there are some frightening facts out there about what that does to humans, not to mention the cows.

There are plenty of other ways to get calcium into your diet without dairy-collard greens, tofu, oranges, almonds.

You really need to be careful with soy products. Soy creates a hormone very similar to estrogen and actually slows, and if consumed enough, stops your natural production of estrogen. Drinking a glass of soy milk has the same affect on your hormones as taking 10 BC pills.

Not to mention, it's hard for the body to digest. While you're consuming something with a lot of protein, you're body can not actually process enough of the soybean to extract it effectively.

You're better off with things like hemp seeds. They're lower in protein, but your body can digest it efficiently to extract all the protein. Not to mention it's full of almost every essential nutrient your body needs, including a perfect balance of the omegas. Furthermore, hemp, unlike soy, can grow in a variety of environments and sun exposures. You dont need to deforest to grow hemp (deforestation for the growing of soy is as much of a problem as deforestation for the production of beef/dairy). And, since it replenishes the soil as it grows and removes contaminants (even mercury and oil) from the landscape, growing it can restore the production abilities of farm lands left to fallow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Anonymous

You really need to be careful with soy products. Soy creates a hormone very similar to estrogen and actually slows, and if consumed enough, stops your natural production of estrogen. Drinking a glass of soy milk has the same affect on your hormones as taking 10 BC pills.

That's awesome news! Could you post the scientific journal reference in which this finding was published please? Then we must tell Obama and start a fundraiser to have soy milk distributed via Planned Parenthood clinics!!11!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, I should really tack on "in my opinion" or "personally" to everything because you don't understand that it is implied?

Why yes. Yes you should for those of us without the benefit of super mind reading skillz :lol:

Get a grip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First the evils of milk, now the evils of soy milk. :roll:

This "OMG soy products are worse for you than BC!" seems to have the same basis in fact as "OMG dairy is so bad for you it will clog up your intestines with slime!".

Recently, I watched a documentary about people who were obsessed with healthy eating (not in the orthorexia-sense, but still obsessed), and the moderator said in the beginning food was the new God of our age. Yepp, seems so, but there's also a devil who has to be vilified to the utmost!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's awesome news! Could you post the scientific journal reference in which this finding was published please? Then we must tell Obama and start a fundraiser to have soy milk distributed via Planned Parenthood clinics!!11!!

I didnt say had the same contraceptive abilities. It has the same affect on your estrogen hormones, as I stated in the previous sentence. BC pills are a mixture of estrogen and progestin. To have a contraceptive ability, you need the progestin, which is similar to progesterone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can you tell me where this statistic is from? My grandparents and parents were/are all milk drinkers. I don't ever remember American cheese at either of their houses, and no cool whip either, you made your own whipped cream! And, my mom and grandpa grew up on raw milk from my great grandma's Jerseys.

Not your grandparents and parents. All of our grandparents ate real food 'cause that's what there was. They didn't have Kraft Mac & Cheese yet. The last couple of generations. From about the 70s to now. People born during the last 40 years. The Betty Crocker times. I don't think they had nachos and Cool Whip in the early 1900s. Milk wasn't as readily available and inexpensive as it is now. In urban populations, poor and middle-class families used canned and powdered milk. And nobody liked it.

Our food supply changed. Shipping and availability. We got mega-supermarket chains with instant product on the shelves. Convenience foods. And very little public education on nutrition disseminated the way it is now.

The US Department of Agriculture tracks this data. Tons of great information in science-based academic papers.

Certainly milk allergies are possible. You bet. Like I said, endocrine/metabolic illnesses. Comes with other medically-complicated conditions. There's a bunch of them. Not something that makes your tummy upset and makes you gassy. Stuff that makes you have to go to the ER. Anaphylaxis.

"People of all ages with gastrointestinal tract disease may have difficulty digesting these proteins and may absorb them as antigens. Milk problems may be attributed to lactose intolerance and the milk-sugar enzyme, lactase, may be prescribed. Milk allergy is a protein problem and is not improved by changing the milk sugar - often the diagnosis of "lactose intolerance" is incomplete or wrong and symptoms persist with only lactose exclusion."

Alpha Education, a division of Environmed Research Inc. Sechelt, B.C., Canada. Feeding Children, Children and Family, Stephen Gislason MD.

Human beings can mount an antigen/antibody response to anything, anytime. It's a cumulative effect - the more exposure to an antigen, the more likely to result in hypersensitivity and antibody response, or histamine. You never know where the threshold is.

High histamine foods:

Alcohol

Pickled or canned foods – sauerkrauts

Aged cheeses

Smoked meat products – salami, ham, sausages….

Shellfish

Beans and pulses – chickpeas, soy beans, peanuts

Nuts – walnuts, cashew nuts

Chocolates and other cocoa based products

Most citric fruits

Wheat based products

Vinegar

Ready meals

Salty snacks, sweets with preservatives and artificial colourings

A separate issue, but overlapping. Histamine intolerance symptoms:

Diarrhea and alternates with normal motions (Irritable Bowel Syndrome), chronic constipation, flatulence and feeling of fullness, stomach cramps, stomach ache, nausea, vomiting, headaches, similar to migraine, runny nose and weepy eyes (without clinical sign of allergies), dizziness, fatigue, swelling around eyes and lips, flushing, skin rashes, itchiness, eczema, urticaria, acne, asthma, cardiac arrhythmia, such as a fast beating or irregular heart beat, dysmenorrhea (severely painful period), HIT symptoms go away during pregnancy and return after birth of child.

NMI Portal für Nahrungsmittel Intoleranz, Histaminunverträglichkeit – Richtige Ernährung

Maintz L, Novak N: Histamine and histamine intolerance, American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 2007

Jarisch, R. “Histaminunverträglichkeitâ€, Thieme Verlag, 2nd Edition

Milk and dairy naturally cause increased secretions and inflammation of mucus membranes. In all of us normally. Usually unnoticeable, it makes a stuffed-up nose worse. People suffering from colds, flu, respiratory infections notice. A comfort measure for babies and children with stuffy noses is to withhold milk.

Whew. More than you needed or wanted to know, right? :violin:

Some of this could be really useful, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just splurged on one of my favorite cheeses tonight, it's American made, but I think it's just as good, if not better than many, French cheeses. http://www.cypressgrovechevre.com/our-cheese/soft-ripened-cheeses/truffle-tremor.html

Backtracking a million pages but I love this one! And the humboldt fog and midnight moon. We had a lot of these cheeses at the grocery store I used to work in. I made sure to cultivate a friendly relationship with the cheese guy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First the evils of milk, now the evils of soy milk. :roll:

This "OMG soy products are worse for you than BC!" seems to have the same basis in fact as "OMG dairy is so bad for you it will clog up your intestines with slime!".

Recently, I watched a documentary about people who were obsessed with healthy eating (not in the orthorexia-sense, but still obsessed), and the moderator said in the beginning food was the new God of our age. Yepp, seems so, but there's also a devil who has to be vilified to the utmost!

:lol: This is it exactly Cran.

I get the fact that some people may have a 'true' allergy. May have been diagnosed not self diagnosed with a 'lactose intolerance.' I get that people might just not like the taste of milk or certain other foods. But why they then feel the urge to tell the rest of the world they are doing it wrong just because of their own particular circumstance or lifestyle choice I do not get.

You have no TV in your house and your kids are better than mine because of it? Great. That inner voice your mother taught you? This is when you employ it.

You have turned your whole family vegetarian and you are all healthier than me and mine. Fabulous. That inner voice your Mother taught you? Yup.

I am very interested to hear how all these choices impact people and more than happy to hear about it and am also very interested and open minded to new ideas. But the moment people start preaching how evil/uneducated/naive everybody who does not make these choices are I'll just put you down as a patronising fuckwit.

I recall being in company when a non-smoker starting preaching at a smoker the terrible health choices he was making (nobody was actually smoking at the event.) He politely said you know you are right. I am the only person in the world who has never seen the adverts read the warnings on the packet or knew this. Thanks for telling me. We all know smoking is bad, but I got the point. The non-smoker who society would agree was correct came off looking like a sanctimonious twat.

Back to milk.

So if 'milk is for baby cows' does this mean that that all derivative products are a no-no also?

The average adult requires 700-1000mg of calcium per day. Going as high as 1200mg for a breastfeeding woman. Upward of 2000-2500mg would be too much.

Interestingly the NHS advises it does not need to be a daily amount but should be looked at cumulatively over a month period to protect bone density.

100g of Parmesan = 1376mg Calcium.

100g of tofu =372mg.

100g of almond = 266mg. If roasted or butter.

Cup Skimmed milk = 306mg

Low fat yoghurt per cup = 415mg

Greens per 100g Highest yield is Turnip leaf at 190mg Dandelion greens at 187mg Kale at 135mg of Calcium.

100g of Brazil nuts = 160mg Calcium.

100g of Herring = 74mg Calcium.

100g raw Broccoli = 47mg Calcium.

2 slices wholewheat bread = 60mg Calcium.

100g ofFireweed leaves = 429mg Calcium.

35g Oatmeal = 105mg Calcium.

100g sesame seeds = 110g Calcium.

I won't add Soy or Almond milk because it is only calcium rich when fortified. So is not a natural food per se. (I thought it was naturally occurring. Another fact learned.) You can buy calcium enhanced 100% freshly squeezed Naval orange juice here. With the juice controversy, this somehow struck me as funny.

There is obviously more calcium rich foods out there but that incorporates the top ten calcium rich food and then the most commonly spoken about others per group. Greens, nuts, seeds etc.

100g = 4oz.

After reading all that I am beginning to wonder how any of us are getting the full RDA never mind if you eat dairy or not. Also, pretty sure our dear parsimonious fundies are not.

I'm off to have a wholewheat fireweed sandwich (whatever the the fuck that is and bearing in mind I have to squeeze 4 ounces of it between 2 slices of bread. I'll grate some parmigiano reggiano and with a glass of milk that should be me for the day :lol:

I am going to make some tahini though. Because I doubt trying to swallow 4 ounces of sesame seed is easy and tahini is YUM!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get that whole fruit contains more fibre, but do you honestly believe that a product labelled "100% pure orange juice" is going to be the nutritional equivalent of Pepsi or sugar water?

anniec tut tut. you forgot the from concentrate or not label :P

The sugar in freshly squeezed juice is very high. If you squeeze 6 oranges it is the equivalent of eating said 6 oranges. Hence the OMG fruit juice is full of sugar. The fibre in the actual fruit slows down the rate the body metabolises it. As another poster said, why it is invaluable for diabetics as a rescue food. Taken with a meal and in a sensible portion I fail to see the utter evil. Especially if you have a child who will not eat fruit.

Did I mention it is a naturally occurring sugar? Silly me because Pepsi is full of the same OBVIOUSLY, making for that rather neat observation :think:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Anonymous

It is possible that my views are formed because I am 'of a certain age' and come from a relatively poor background. Juice is not something I have ever sipped on throughout the day, or carried in small boxes in case thirst strikes. As a child we usually had orange juice in pint bottles on weekends, and it was shared between a family of 6, if everyone wanted a share. I now drink small glasses of juice for breakfast and/or occasionally with vodka of a Friday night (what day is it today... hmmm!). When I was a child, an individual carton of juice was a once or twice a year treat, on those school trips where glass bottles and tupperware beakers were not allowed, for fear of breakages or spills. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is possible that my views are formed because I am 'of a certain age' and come from a relatively poor background. Juice is not something I have ever sipped on throughout the day, or carried in small boxes in case thirst strikes. As a child we usually had orange juice in pint bottles on weekends, and it was shared between a family of 6, if everyone wanted a share. I now drink small glasses of juice for breakfast and/or occasionally with vodka of a Friday night (what day is it today... hmmm!). When I was a child, an individual carton of juice was a once or twice a year treat, on those school trips where glass bottles and tupperware beakers were not allowed, for fear of breakages or spills. :D

Same memory here. Our fresh juice was delivered with the milk on a Friday in a pint bottle. Dare I mention Kia-Ora :lol: (party juice) Folks might keel over and die.

I get my milked delivered now. No clinky Milk van, no guy in a white jacket :( But it's a local diary and only 11p more expensive than the supermarket. Worth it for many reasons. To me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I never tried vodka with my breakfast. I must try it. I'll do it this weekend, not on a weekday.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Anonymous

Same memory here. Our fresh juice was delivered with the milk on a Friday in a pint bottle. Dare I mention Kia-Ora :lol: (party juice) Folks might keel over and die.

I get my milked delivered now. No clinky Milk van, no guy in a white jacket :( But it's a local diary and only 11p more expensive than the supermarket. Worth it for many reasons. To me.

I used to have pink grapefruit juice delivered in a glass bottle with my milk on a Friday morning, until my dairy stopped the deliveries. Now gin and pink grapefruit juice... that was a delicious Friday night treat while it lasted! :D

Edited to add: also - do you remember in the 1980s when a small glass of orange juice was considered to be a starter course in a fancy restaurant?! Possibly with a glace cherry on a cocktail stick to add to the charm. :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I used to have pink grapefruit juice delivered in a glass bottle with my milk on a Friday morning, until my dairy stopped the deliveries. Now gin and pink grapefruit juice... that was a delicious Friday night treat while it lasted! :D

AND one of your 5 a day! As is Strongbow..all those apples :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.