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Kids Never need Milk! Or juice!


AddieBelle

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I recommend lavender and lemonbalm tree with lemon juice. It's soooo goood... gosh it's so goood! :3 I can literally get high on lavender it's my catnip! My human catnip : )

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Having an apple is so much better for you than a glass of apple juice. IMO Juice is a junk food.

Milk is unnecessary after infancy. I hate the stuff, I drink my tea & coffee black. Which causes a mix up nearly every time I get coffee with the BF because people assume the man is having the manly black coffee & the woman is having the latte.

That said I love milk's child, CHEESE!!!!

I agree, in fact my brother said that my niece's pediatrician said that about juice, that it's fine in moderation, but that children should drink water if they're thirsty. My niece only has juice on extremely rare occasions, and she's more likely to ask for some fruit instead of juice. I'm also one of those who drinks black coffee, while my fiancee is the one who puts milk in it as it reduces the laxative effect for him. For me, milk is fine for baking, or for dunking cookies, especially Oreos. I get my calcium from cheese as well as leafy greens as much as possible. I've never had any fetuses leech calcium from my bones, and I also do plenty of walking and other weight bearing exercises.

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I can't snark on this too much. If it wasn't chocolate milk or hot cocoa nobody in my family drank it by the glass either. It's not that we don't use it, or even drink it occasionally with something like cake/cookies, but it wasn't something we felt we needed and none of use like it all that much. And my kids have only had non fat milk even though some think the fat is necessary. It's just the way we are...we hate fatty liquids. Juice we did drink but only becasue we like it and it helped keep the kids regular when they were little :). I never was a fan of drinking my calories but sometimes I'm not in the mood to eat fruit either, and a glass of OJ or apple juice hits the spot.

I would never make a food or drink item "off limits" though, that is totally unnecessary minus an allergy or medial reason and is just a way to control others.

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I thought I was being all virtuous and stuff by drinking lots of plain fruit juice during my first pregnancy, when I could drink anything but had serious trouble keeping down solids. I got the nutritionist going "OMG ALL THE FRUCTOSE D:" when I told her just how much I drank. So we didn't have juice in the house except as an occasional sweet treat or for making crap-free ice pops in the summer.

Now it turns out that my youngest kid's iron is low despite his iron-rich diet, and the recommended way to increase his iron uptake is to serve those iron-rich foods with something rich in vitamin C, such as . . . juice.

I agree that kids don't need milk, but they have to have some source of calcium and, unless they are outdoors most of the day, vitamin D. It's easy to do if you live in salmon country; just eat lots of home-canned salmon with bones and skin. But there has to be something doing the job that milk usually does.

Vit. C will help your body absorb more iron. There are other sources for it besides juice. Fruit for desert is a good option.

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While I agree no human (kid or adult) NEEDS milk or juice to have a balanced diet, I am sick of this "cow's milk is for calves and not for humans, OMG it is so bad for you!". Well, eggs are for the hen to hatch, meat comes from animals that are supposed to live, fruits, nuts, seeds and veggies are for plants to produce the next generation... there's no logical value in "cow's milk is for cows only!".

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As a recovering caffeine addict ( I've gone from up to 24 cans of coke a day to 3 a month) I drink mainly water with a side of fat

free milk, and diluted apple juice ( I add water to it, it's too sweet otherwise).

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Sweet Acidopholus is made for lactose intolerant people. We drank milk as kids and stayed thin- hmmm. I you like soomething drink if not don't.

I think the reason Fundies start barring certain foods is the cost. A gallon of milk averages $4-$5 a gallon relying on where you live. So imagine buying 5-6 gallons each week for expanding families with several teens and on down.

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As a recovering caffeine addict ( I've gone from up to 24 cans of coke a day to 3 a month) I drink mainly water with a side of fat

free milk, and diluted apple juice ( I add water to it, it's too sweet otherwise).

Holy cow, up to 24 cans of coke/day! I can't imagine just the volume alone, I could never drink that much of anything in a day. Did you lose a lot of weight when you reduced the intake to 3 cans/month? Congratulations on doing that. I'd be glad to get rid of my 2 or 3 cans/day.

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Holy cow, up to 24 cans of coke/day! I can't imagine just the volume alone, I could never drink that much of anything in a day. Did you lose a lot of weight when you reduced the intake to 3 cans/month? Congratulations on doing that. I'd be glad to get rid of my 2 or 3 cans/day.

Thanks, my doctor thinks that part of my problem was that i was taken off my ADHD medication to early and my body was

looking for a stimulant to replace it. As for the volume I've always had had a non alcoholic drinking problem, all that salt probably dehydrated me, plus I built up a tolerance. When I first switched to water I was drinking several gallons a day to make up for it. My bladder was not happy.

As for the weight, unfortunately between undiagnosed PCOS, hypotyroidism and psychiatric medication I gained 30 pounds in a month and kept it until I was put on meds/taken off the med. However I've lost over 10 inches all over my body in two months now.

I will warn you if you try to go off it go slowly. Withdrawal symptoms from caffeine are a huge pain.

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It's funny that after a lecture in med school about the rate of lactose intolerance in the world, everyone assumed I must be intolerant since I was Asian and didn't drink milk. That wasn't a bad guess as half my family are lactose intolerant, but I just never liked the taste of milk (I think that just baffled more people).

There are many sources for calcium. In the west, we can eat a dairy filled diet (cheese, milk, eggs etc). As a child in China, my mom said dairy in the western sense was nonexistent. Cheese was unheard of (and still expensive in China), eggs were rare treats, and few people had access to cow's milk. However, they get their calcium through other sources like veggies, seaweed, nuts. I don't think one diet is better than the other. I think each culture have diets which fulfills the nutritional needs of the human body. In today's foodie culture, most people can cross out items they want off the list (i.e milk) and replace its nutritional content with something equally edible and delicious. Fundies are bad for not understanding basic nutrition, thus starving their kids or teaching them bad eating habits.

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Guest Anonymous

Milk is making a comeback in many of our primary schools, simply because (for those who can tolerate it), it is a quick and inexpensive way to provide nutrition to children who may be sent to school having had little or no breakfast. A small cup of milk and some sliced fruit is a common morning snack in my area, with alternatives for those who can't/won't tolerate it.

As to juice being a junk food: I wonder if portion control has got out of hand as (carton) juice has become relatively cheaper over the years. When I was a child of the 70s and 80s, a small glass of juice with breakfast was an indulgence. But a small glass would be about 4oz, not the giant supersized glasses that get handed out in restaurants now. UK health guidelines suggest that a small glass of pure juice (no additives, preferably with pulp) is fine as a substitute for no more than one of your five a day of fruit and veg.

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Oh... dang. That looks sooo good. I love goat cheese. Apparently they sell that brand at the fancy grocery store near my parents' house. I'll have to tell my dad, he is the other cheese eater in my family and I will be visiting them in a few weeks. I splurge on gruyere every so often, but my grocery stores are pretty hit and miss with cheese. They have Aero bars though so I can't complain.

Aero bars as in the chocolate bars with bubbles in them? Where are you that these aren't on the shelf everywhere?

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Thanks, my doctor thinks that part of my problem was that i was taken off my ADHD medication to early and my body was

looking for a stimulant to replace it. As for the volume I've always had had a non alcoholic drinking problem, all that salt probably dehydrated me, plus I built up a tolerance. When I first switched to water I was drinking several gallons a day to make up for it. My bladder was not happy.

As for the weight, unfortunately between undiagnosed PCOS, hypotyroidism and psychiatric medication I gained 30 pounds in a month and kept it until I was put on meds/taken off the med. However I've lost over 10 inches all over my body in two months now.

I will warn you if you try to go off it go slowly. Withdrawal symptoms from caffeine are a huge pain.

You didn't develop any kidney problems from that volume of fluid? I think I'd have wanted a catheter if I drank several gallons of anything per day. Although to be honest I don't think I could drink that much of anything. I just can't drink large volumes, 3 to 4 oz is the most I can drink at a time. 12 ounces of anything lasts several hours.

Are you feeling better with the absence of so much caffeine?

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Guest Anonymous

I need to speak to the British government about this milk thing. They provide free milk to all children up to age six every day in school. They must be way behind on this new research. Actually it used to be up to the age of 18 but under Margaret Thatcher it was cut...hence her nickname 'Maggie Thatcher the milk snatcher' Another useless fact brought to you by me :lol:

:lol: I was in primary school when milk was stopped abruptly and I remember the cries of "Maggie Thatcher the Milk Snatcher" well. I don't think it was ever free to secondary kids though. Just up to age 11. Then it disappeared altogether for a couple of decades, before being re-introduced for younger kids only.

Am I significantly older than you, or do you remember the crates of 1/3 pint bottles being delivered to the school by the milk van? We used to have a rota for who got to poke the straws in the top and hand it out before morning break. It was delicious except for hot summer days when it had turned warm before break time. :mrgreen:

I have seen cutesy little faux-replica bottles online (http://www.dotcomgiftshop.com/school-milk-bottles-crate) but they are not like the proper, dairy stamped, thick little stubby bottles that used to come with about 30 bottles per crate.

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Can't speak for the OP, but I am. I gave up caffeine five months ago. I would drink around ten cups of strong coffee a day plus the occasional cola. Ive always had anxiety issues but I started getting jittery. I only have one caffeinated coffee a day now. First thing in the morning to kick start me. Rest of the time its decaff and no cola either. I drink around three cups of decaff a day and the jitter has gone and I'm sleeping better.

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So it always makes sense to do some research when this type of discussion arises. At any time I feel my knowledge base or experience appears to lack or differ, off to google we go.

The data seems to differ wildly. The predominant studies that first come up seem to be American based.

Australian article

http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv ... ntolerance

Milk and other dairy products contain a sugar or carbohydrate called lactose. Normally, the body breaks down lactose into its simpler components with the help of the enzyme lactase. Most mammals stop producing lactase when they are weaned; humans, however, continue to produce it throughout life. Without enough lactase, a person can have digestive problems like abdominal pain and diarrhoea. This is known as lactose intolerance or lactase deficiency.

It is rare for Caucasians to develop lactose intolerance. However, it is quite common among people from Asia, Africa, the Middle East and some Mediterranean countries, as well as among Aboriginal Australians. Up to five per cent of Caucasians and up to 75 per cent of non-Caucasians living in Australia are lactose intolerant.

Many Australian babies are unnecessarily weaned because their irritability is wrongly assumed to be lactose intolerance. In reality, the severe form of this condition – known as primary lactose intolerance (where the infant does not produce lactase from birth) – is rare.

Secondary lactose intolerance (which develops after weaning) is more common. This can occur temporarily after a bout of gastroenteritis, for example, but often improves after several weeks as the lining of the gut heals.

An interesting US article.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/bl ... nd-fiction

Adding fuel to the fire are the restaurants, food companies, and marketers of popular "detox cleanses," whose offerings of "free-from" foods is exploding. It seems these players are both responding to and creating the increased consumer demand for foods without popular villains like dairy, gluten, soy, and fructose. Additionally, an expensive blood test which claims to measure "food sensitivities" by looking at antibodies in the blood called immunoglobulin G, or IgG, may be convincing more folks that they, too, have food intolerances. While the test seems to be growing in popularity, no mainstream medical bodies have endorsed its use for diagnostic purposes, and scant reliable scientific evidence exists to support its utility in pinpointing food intolerances.

UK. NHS website.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Lactose-in ... ction.aspx

Diagnosing lactose intolerance

If you suspect that you may be lactose intolerant, it is important to make an appointment to get a diagnosis confirmed (or ruled out) by a doctor.

Many experts are concerned that people wrongly "self-diagnose" as lactose intolerant and miss out on the nutrients that dairy product provide.

Similarly, many parents wrongly assume they have passed the condition on to their children, where this may not actually be the case.

Lactose intolerance can be diagnosed with a breath or blood test that can assess how the body reacts to lactose.

Read more about the diagnosis of lactose intolerance.

Treating lactose intolerance

Limiting your intake of food and drink containing lactose is the main treatment for lactose intolerance.

Depending on a person’s levels of intolerance, they may also require additional calcium and vitamin D supplements to keep the bones strong and healthy.

Advice from a dietitian may sometimes be helpful in determining the best diet for a person.

Lactase substitutes are also available. These are drops that you can add to your meals or drinks to improve your digestion of lactose.

It can be difficult at first to assess how much lactose you can eat without ill effects. But usually, with time, a person learns to "judge their own limits" and work out what they can eat and drink without it causing symptoms.

Complications such as osteoporosis, caused by a lack of nutrients in the diet, can usually be avoided with advice from a GP or dietitian on whether food supplements are required.

But this I did not know and is quite fascinating

Levels of lactose intolerance can differ between different ethnic groups. For example, it is thought that only 1 in 50 people of Swedish descent have some degree of lactose intolerance whereas almost all people of Chinese descent have the condition.

In the UK, it’s more common in people of Asian or African-Carribean descent.

Most cases first develop in people aged 20 to 40, although in rare cases the intolerance can be present at birth. Both sexes are equally affected by lactose intolerance.

Depending on which site or article you read the statistics differ.

Most mammals normally become lactose intolerant after weaning, but some human populations have developed lactase persistence, in which lactase production continues into adulthood. It is estimated that 75% of adults worldwide show some decrease in lactase activity during adulthood.[5] The frequency of decreased lactase activity ranges from 5% in northern Europe through 71% for Sicily to more than 90% in some African and Asian countries.[6] This distribution is now thought to have been caused by recent natural selection favoring lactase-persistent individuals in cultures in which dairy products are available as a food source.[7] While it was first thought that this would mean that populations in Europe, India, and Africa had high frequencies of lactase persistence because of a particular mutation, it was later shown that lactase persistence is caused by several independently occurring mutations.[8

Lactase persistance. Again the statistics vary from 40% of the world population to 25% in other citations. This percentage whichever number is factual debunk the 'cows milk is for baby cows' stance. As this percentage is not weaned yet from what I understand (to put it simply.) It is quite fascinating to see how dietary culture and genetics intertwine.

The major reason some people can’t digest dairy products is they lack the enzyme lactase, which is necessary to break down lactose in the small intestine. It has been determined that continued genetic expression of this enzyme, known as lactase persistence, is dependent on ancestry and racial background. (2) The ability to consume dairy probably gave early herdsmen a distinct survival advantage, allowing for the spread of the gene in certain regions of the world such as northern Europe and parts of Africa; today, only about 40% of the world’s adult population maintain full lactase function following childhood. (3, 4) Lactase deficiency makes digesting dairy products more challenging for these individuals.

However, true lactose intolerance is rarely diagnosed by medical testing, and adults frequently mistake their gastrointestinal symptoms as a sign that they are unable to digest dairy products at all. Studies have shown that even diagnosed “lactose malabsorbers†are capable of consuming moderate amounts of dairy, tolerating an average 12 grams of lactose when administered in a single dose (the lactose content found in 1 cup of milk) with little to no symptoms. (5) Additionally, many adults who believe they have lactose intolerance are actually suffering from other gastrointestinal disorders such as SIBO, celiac disease, or IBS, and do not see significant benefit from eliminating dairy. Ultimately, there are many people who avoid dairy products without reason for doing so.

The Calcium debate.

Calcium is a mineral that is difficult to get adequate amounts of in a modern Western diet without the inclusion of dairy. While the adequate levels of fat soluble vitamins A, D, and K2 reduces the amount of calcium an adult needs to maintain bone health, it can still be challenging to get enough calcium simply from leafy greens and bone-in fish. Several studies have shown that individuals with lactose intolerance have lower bone density and are at higher risk for fractures and osteoporosis, likely due to their inadequate calcium intake. (8, 9, 10) This risk is possibly exacerbated by low K2 consumption, as grass-fed dairy is one of the best sources of vitamin K2.

There really is a lot of data out there. It is quite confusing and contradictory.

I do though after a few hours of wading through it. (I even read some OMG Milk is the best thing EVER to find them written by various Countries dairy councils. Hehe.) Feel that unless a true milk allergy or diagnosed lactose intolerance (with it's rather miserable symptoms) exists. That milk is not the enemy it is painted to be. Horses for courses I guess.

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:lol: I was in primary school when milk was stopped abruptly and I remember the cries of "Maggie Thatcher the Milk Snatcher" well. I don't think it was ever free to secondary kids though. Just up to age 11. Then it disappeared altogether for a couple of decades, before being re-introduced for younger kids only.

Am I significantly older than you, or do you remember the crates of 1/3 pint bottles being delivered to the school by the milk van? We used to have a rota for who got to poke the straws in the top and hand it out before morning break. It was delicious except for hot summer days when it had turned warm before break time. :mrgreen:

I have seen cutesy little faux-replica bottles online (http://www.dotcomgiftshop.com/school-milk-bottles-crate) but they are not like the proper, dairy stamped, thick little stubby bottles that used to come with about 30 bottles per crate.

:lol: No i think we may be of similar age *cough* OH the joy of the milk crate that sat until the afternoon. It is amazing with that experience I actually still like milk. I think you are right about 11. It certainly had stopped by the time I left primary school. Now it is in tetrapaks :lol:

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If you love milk fine, drink it. Just don't force kids who can't digest it to drink it, and don't buy into all the false advertising. As for butter, it's a thousand times healthier than margarine.

Yes quite obviously I am going to force a food on a child that will make them ill :roll: What particular false advertising would that be?

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But if drinking milk gives makes someone vomit or gives them diarrhoea then it's kind of counter-productive.

Also, more people than just Anglo-Saxons have lactase persistence. Like I said before, it's a common trait among pastoralists. According to this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2672153/ about 90% of Tutsis can digest lactose.

Very true. In researching the cultural instances of lactose intolerance I can see your point and how it could impact, most especially in the areas I was thinking of in regard to famine/starvation. That being said most of the data points to the intolerance not beginning until after age 4-5 so it would still be a quick and nutritious easy fix if it was all that was available. Even lactose intolerant can digest a certain amount before it triggers the symptoms.

All moot points really as in areas of famine it is not really a first choice. I suppose by first world problem I mean that the choice to eliminate it for reasons other than true intolerance or allergy is not one readily available in areas of poverty and famine.

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We rarely drink milk or juice. Water is best, imo. We do get our share of green veggies, cheese, beans and tofu.

Why drink juice when an apple or orange is more filling?

THe consistency of milk makes me gag. Ugh. I remember being told I had to drink all of my milk at lunch as a kid. I was sick the rest of the day.

Now, that being said, the kids had a rare treat of chocolate milk after supper last night.

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Guest Anonymous

Why drink juice when an apple or orange is more filling?

Vodka and a whole apple just isn't as satisfying as a V & O on ice. :lol:

There is a saying that I like that goes along the lines of "There is no such thing as a bad food, only a bad diet". It is possible to incorporate almost anything into a balanced diet if you are educated about nutrition and have the will and the resources to do so.

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Vodka and a whole apple just isn't as satisfying as a V & O on ice. :lol:

There is a saying that I like that goes along the lines of "There is no such thing as a bad food, only a bad diet". It is possible to incorporate almost anything into a balanced diet if you are educated about nutrition and have the will and the resources to do so.

Yes I think that is the key. There is so much OMG that is bad STOP it now scare studies regarding nutrition. Education and practising good choices seems to come second to the latest generally not particularly well researched studies.

Regarding juice it would be who on earth would sit and eat four oranges? The sugar! The average orange contains 2 ounces of juice. As you pointed out anniec, portion control I think is an issue. A portion of fruit juice to me would be 4-6 ounces max. Would be freshly squeezed with pulp. The problem with fruit juice and the sugar argument is based on the fact that actually eating the whole fruit with the fibre slows down the bodies rate of metabolising the sugar. Hence the necking a glass of juice is worse than coke. On the other hand only drinking your 4-6 oz portion of juice with a meal has precisely the same result. It tastes good,is a good source of many vitamins and for a child who is reluctant to eat fruit is then a good nutritional choice used properly. I guess it is about weighing up the positives and negatives.

My child loves her fruit and veg, she drinks a lot of our lovely Scottish water as she does sports every day except one. But she loves freshly squeezed juice. I don't deny her a small glass with her dinner not every night but a fair few. No more than I deny her treats like chocolate or sweets on the right occasion. She like me has a natural aversion (maybe influenced although I have let her try) any kind of fizzy drink and all fast food. Well except good old chippy chips :lol: Obviously eaten straight out of the newspaper.

For me it is a balance. Nutrition, health and that good old forgotten one happiness. There is so much emphasis and prescriptive media about food and weight that navigating it for a child is a mine field. For me the emphasis is on educating her to make good choices. Denial is not always a good choice.

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Once my daughter was around four I stopped worrying about her milk consumption, she loved yogurt and ate a ton of that. I'd say since then she only has maybe one serving a day, often not even that. Only if she buys hot lunch at school or has cereal.

And I rarely bought juice when she was a toddler. It was a huge treat, maybe every couple of months. My parents watched her for us and my mom did buy juice but gave only glass a day and watered it down by half. Ironically at five and a half she was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes and we now buy a couple of packages of juice boxes each month to treat low blood sugars. She drinks FAR more juice now than as a toddler, due to that reason, sigh. And candy, skittles also work wonderfully. That was her favorite candy at Halloween when she was little. She now hates them and only uses them if we are out of juice/on the go.

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We rarely drink milk or juice. Water is best, imo. We do get our share of green veggies, cheese, beans and tofu.

Why drink juice when an apple or orange is more filling?

THe consistency of milk makes me gag. Ugh. I remember being told I had to drink all of my milk at lunch as a kid. I was sick the rest of the day.

Now, that being said, the kids had a rare treat of chocolate milk after supper last night.

I drink juice because tap water in my area tastes horrible. I can't drink an apple! I don't like soda, so I drink juice or milk or bottled water (I recommend Aldi or Lidl for UK people for cheap bottled water).

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While I agree no human (kid or adult) NEEDS milk or juice to have a balanced diet, I am sick of this "cow's milk is for calves and not for humans, OMG it is so bad for you!". Well, eggs are for the hen to hatch, meat comes from animals that are supposed to live, fruits, nuts, seeds and veggies are for plants to produce the next generation... there's no logical value in "cow's milk is for cows only!".

I mentioned this earlier. These animals have been domesticated for thousands of years to produce way more milk than they need for their offspring, and also to produce it for human's tastes. It's okay to not like milk, and it's okay to not drink milk, but it's not true that it's only for the calves, kids and lambs.

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