Another fundie hating on the Amish

[Buzzard]

Tsk tsk. Teh internet is forever... Google sees all!

Annoying People

Somehow I seem to be good at running into annoying people. Really, why do people have to be so annoying. What makes it worse is that they know they are annoying.

I've been working at PGD (P. Graham Dunn) the last few weeks. People can be rather annoying there. But I realize that could be God's way of telling me I-need-to-deal-with-getting-along-with-those-annoying-people. For one, there is this Amish girl that works in the shipping department there, and she is a bossy woman with a very sharp loud voice that annoys everyone. I used to try avoiding having to talk to her. But then I thought, that maybe if I would go up and talk to her, she would have to yell at me with that annoying voice of hers across the room.

The other annoying Amish girls (that work in finishing, the painting aria) stare at me as if I'm walking by as a modal in a fashion show. I used to walk by, look away and rather stick my nose up in the air. But then I figured that wasn't really a good idea, for one, I'm not proud, nor am I that rood, nor is that the real me. So I started smiling as I walked be and just minded my own business. That did work actually, because they weren't afraid to talk to me then. And one girl actually showed me some kindness rather then staring at me, she brought me some clean cardboard pieces to put on the floor to paint what ever I was painting.

As for the guys, they all are rather creepy in their own little way. Some joke and pick on me like we've known each other for years and are good friends. (That is annoying and creepy) Others give me weird looks, others laugh at me, especially when I come hoppedy-hopping down the stairs and turn to push open the door at the bottom, but it swings open with an Amish dude coming out! I did stop before I ran into him. But with a squeak and a little giggle and a sorry, excuse me, before quickly squeezing between he and the wall. And then hoppedy-hopping I went down the hall....That only occurs when I'm jacked up on coffee, a Starbucks Frappuccino, and a sweet tea, and some candy. I get more work done when I got lots of energy.

And now for all the other people that work up in the gallery where I usually work. It's the most annoying when I feel perfectly safe standing at the very top of a 16 foot ladder, then stretching and trying to untie or tie a rope to something to hang something or take down something. These annoying employees that are walking by, stop, and stand there and then almost turn pale white, shake in their shoes and say, That's not safe! I couldn't do that! You are amazing! Don't fall! I'm up there turning red, almost rolling in sweat, shaking because I'm stretching for so long, and talking threw my teeth to myself saying, if I'm scaring you get OUT of here! Like walk over there...Or hey look there is someone that needs some help over there...

Then there is those wonderful, kind, sweet girls I work with that sometimes don't think. Like even the simplest things they make so complicating. Like standing up a 16 foot ladder or moving it under track lights, or judging where it has to be for you to easily reach a little difficult place or thing you are to place or remove. Or when they are instructed to caring something heavy, they barely lift it and think, that's to heavy. And ask me to help them, I sometimes do, and think this is ridiculous, this isn't even heavy, but then other times I say, Oh sure, here, you carry this, I'll take that. Then they are shocked how I can carry it by myself. I laugh inside and thank God he made me with muscles. I do understand that they haven't done things like this before, or aren't as Tom-boy as I am. Sometimes it's embarrassing that I seem to be tough and masculine and these girls are more like a lady than I am. So really I'm glad they choice to be more of a lady. :)

In a lot of other ways I love working with these girls because they have good ideas and do take off a load of work that I would have to do if they weren't there. Even though they may not think like I do sometimes. :)

I'm most certainly sure I annoy some people to. As well as not think smart a lot of times to. See those girls are smarter in some of their opinions then I am. :P So I can't complain. :) (Even though I kinda already have complained.) :P

I do really enjoy my job most the time. Mostly because you do something different everyday and all the time and so it can't get boring really. You do some ladylike work as well as work that should be done by a man. But hey, girls can do it to. :)

And so I'm trying more to not be so annoying myself, and not be easily annoyed by others. And try react to things the way Jesus would. Now that is hard. :)

I think I may come across to people as maybe always a grumpy, mean, or a sad person. But really I'm not like that. I'm more of a jolly person and I love to laugh a lot. :) But I can be that grumpy rather mean person when things don't go my way. I'm trying hard to learn to except things the way they are. And not react so poorly when they don't go just the way I want them to. I know I can't control anyone's actions except for my own. But I do tend to think that everyone should think like me. Which I'm glad they don't because I don't think smart very often. Or do smart things.

I'm sorry that this sounds so much like I'm complaining. I'm not really. I'm just learning to love everyone even though they are creepy and annoying. :)

~Sandy~

[valsa]

Others give me weird looks, others laugh at me, especially when I come hoppedy-hopping down the stairs and turn to push open the door at the bottom, but it swings open with an Amish dude coming out! I did stop before I ran into him. But with a squeak and a little giggle and a sorry, excuse me, before quickly squeezing between he and the wall. And then hoppedy-hopping I went down the hall....That only occurs when I'm jacked up on coffee, a Starbucks Frappuccino, and a sweet tea, and some candy. I get more work done when I got lots of energy.

Well, I'm not Amish but I'd give you a weird look too, mostly because I'd want to know why your work was employing a goddamn 14 year old.

[Burris]

Tsk tsk. Teh internet is forever... Google sees all!

Well, since I kind of hijacked the thread - it wasn't intentional, but it happened - then I guess now here's a chance, through the magic of Google, to put it right:

I've been working at PGD (P. Graham Dunn) the last few weeks. People can be rather annoying there. But I realize that could be God's way of telling me I-need-to-deal-with-getting-along-with-those-annoying-people.

If an individual keeps meeting "annoying" people everywhere, then perhaps it's God's way of telling her she is the problem.

The other annoying Amish girls (that work in finishing, the painting aria) stare at me as if I'm walking by as a modal in a fashion show.

Maybe they're thinking, "Oh please let her not speak directly to us."

I used to walk by, look away and rather stick my nose up in the air.

...which isn't the slightest but "annoying."

But then I figured that wasn't really a good idea, for one, I'm not proud, nor am I that rood, nor is that the real me. So I started smiling as I walked be and just minded my own business. That did work actually, because they weren't afraid to talk to me then.

Oh, gasp. How shocking that a smile would invite kinder conversation than sticking your nose up at other people - which, you know, is "rood."

As for the guys, they all are rather creepy in their own little way. Some joke and pick on me like we've known each other for years and are good friends. (That is annoying and creepy) Others give me weird looks, others laugh at me, especially when I come hoppedy-hopping down the stairs and turn to push open the door at the bottom, but it swings open with an Amish dude coming out! I did stop before I ran into him. But with a squeak and a little giggle and a sorry, excuse me, before quickly squeezing between he and the wall. And then hoppedy-hopping I went down the hall....That only occurs when I'm jacked up on coffee, a Starbucks Frappuccino, and a sweet tea, and some candy. I get more work done when I got lots of energy.

I'd be giving you weird looks for that, too.

And now for all the other people that work up in the gallery where I usually work. It's the most annoying when I feel perfectly safe standing at the very top of a 16 foot ladder, then stretching and trying to untie or tie a rope to something to hang something or take down something. These annoying employees that are walking by, stop, and stand there and then almost turn pale white, shake in their shoes and say, That's not safe! I couldn't do that! You are amazing! Don't fall! I'm up there turning red, almost rolling in sweat, shaking because I'm stretching for so long, and talking threw my teeth to myself saying, if I'm scaring you get OUT of here! Like walk over there...Or hey look there is someone that needs some help over there...

Or: "I'm on a tall ladder trying to accomplish something, here. Stop fucking distracting me!"

I'm most certainly sure I annoy some people to. As well as not think smart a lot of times to. See those girls are smarter in some of their opinions then I am. :P So I can't complain. :) (Even though I kinda already have complained.) :P

My God - a glimmer of light!

I'm sorry that this sounds so much like I'm complaining. I'm not really. I'm just learning to love everyone even though they are creepy and annoying. :)

....aaaand it's gone.

[valsa]

As well as not think smart a lot of times to.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[zcccrv]

This is entirely off topic but as a Croat living in Croatia my whole life (soon to be 32 years) I have to ask Burris: what the heck are you talking about? I assume you are familiar with the circumstances of the formation of Yugoslavia, which all together existed for less than a century (comparatively Croatia became a kingdom in the 10th century) and with the fact that cultural differences were being overlooked in favor of artificial unity benefiting economy, power and communist ideals?

As far as everything wrong with human nature comment goes, that just sounds incredibly flippant and judgmental. It does also sound very dramatic so I'll give to that (as a plus). Please first compare statistics of USA and Croatia, read what people have to say in books, articles, please try talking to regular folk, Croats or Serbs, please consider the fact that Croatia is about to joint the EU, do compare the percentage of people who believe Earth came to be freaking 10 000 years ago... What you are saying sounds to me like mystification of problems instead of using them to learn about human nature to a positive effect. We the people of former Yugoslavia have had plenty of stuff to learn from. Yes it is a long and sometimes painful process but the opportunities for becoming a critical thinking, thoughtful and forward people are plenty. And many do use them.

[Burris]

This is entirely off topic but as a Croat living in Croatia my whole life (soon to be 32 years) I have to ask Burris: what the heck are you talking about? I assume you are familiar with the circumstances of the formation of Yugoslavia, which all together existed for less than a century (comparatively Croatia became a kingdom in the 10th century) and with the fact that cultural differences were being overlooked in favor of artificial unity benefiting economy, power and communist ideals?

Hey! Don't just brag on Croat achievement. Serbia was a kingdom of its own in 1217.

And no shit I'm familiar with the formation of Yugoslavia. And I considered it a good thing to try and pave over cultural differences in favor of unity, though I didn't really appreciate the communism - the fact government tried to silence dissent and cultural difference through artifice. They didn't smooth over cultural differences; they tried to plow them under - which made things so much worse. (I've discussed this aspect of limiting free speech in other threads.)

As far as everything wrong with human nature comment goes, that just sounds incredibly flippant and judgmental.

And absolutely fucking true. But if you think I'm talking about everyone everywhere there, then you misread me. In all fairness to you, though, you're right: It's 2013, not 1992 – and I shouldn't have made such a sweeping generalization.

I...apologize.

Please first compare statistics of USA and Croatia, read what people have to say in books, articles, please try talking to regular folk...

Yugoslavia - including Croatia - was culturally advanced. I don't need to compare statistics or anything of the sort. Art, culture, history - advanced education - advanced cultures. Serbian and Croatian both, as well as several others. Croat culture over 1000 years old, and Serb culture almost as old.

Hey, and Serbia is now doing peacekeeping work as well.

But the civil war was brutal, and anyone who says differently is a liar.

Croats or Serbs, please consider the fact that Croatia is about to joint the EU, do compare the percentage of people who believe Earth came to be freaking 10 000 years ago... What you are saying sounds to me like mystification of problems instead of using them to learn about human nature to a positive effect.

I don't have a positive view of human nature. I'm supposed to think better of what happened because the different factions bounced back, each alone? No! It fucking sucks!

Милунка Савић was a hero to me, so I tried to follow in her footsteps and became instead...this. I'm supposed to think better of human nature now?

...thoughtful and forward people are plenty.

Of course there are. Maybe even you.

Me? No. I'm so fucking prejudiced that my first thought on seeing your post was simply to call you a string of profanities. I know this about myself and I think it about other people and I work on it all the time.

You are culturally advanced. I'm still not.

[zcccrv]

The mere thought of profanities doesn't make you any less cultural than me. Saying those profanities out loud, if accompanied by some explanations, would also not make you any less advanced.

Why does human nature have to be positive or negative? Why can't it just be... natural? I personally think almost every person, given the right (or wrong) circumstances, would lie, steal and kill. I also think almost every person would do acts of charity when face to face with the need. So does that sum make a positive or a negative? No fucking difference because there is no one else to discern what those words even mean except, well, us humans.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I have no love for the Amish. They don't recruit, true, but their core beliefs are no better than the fundies. They oppress women and abuse children (and animals) in the same way.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I'm sure there are lovely Amish people, and that they do good things - but I cannot accept their lifestyle as some kind of True Christianity. I don't consider my Christianity to be somehow less Christian, but something tells me that my liberal Anglo-Catholicism (pro-marriage equality and women clergy/bishops) would not be considered valid by the Amish. I do have a problem with people attaching WASPy cultural values like a Protestant work ethic and favouring nuclear heterosexual families to 'how Christians are supposed to live', when Jesus was a brown single homeless man.

I'm not Christian, but I agree. Rejecting modern things is an Amish practice, NOT a requirement of Christianity in general.

Pitching in to help in times of need, though, strikes me as a classically Christian practice that they just follow more than others.

Forgiving others even when they do heinous things: it's not part of my belief system, but it does sound like the Christian "turn the other cheek" doctrine being put into practice even in the most extreme situations. It's not something that I see as required or even desirable, but I do respect that they can be so committed to that belief.

[fauxmenno]

Well, I'm not Amish but I'd give you a weird look too, mostly because I'd want to know why your work was employing a goddamn 14 year old.

I'd expect this type of blathering from a 12-14 year old, but this girl is 19 iirc.

[Montana Wildflower]

I'm sure there are lovely Amish people, and that they do good things - but I cannot accept their lifestyle as some kind of True Christianity. I don't consider my Christianity to be somehow less Christian, but something tells me that my liberal Anglo-Catholicism (pro-marriage equality and women clergy/bishops) would not be considered valid by the Amish. I do have a problem with people attaching WASPy cultural values like a Protestant work ethic and favouring nuclear heterosexual families to 'how Christians are supposed to live', when Jesus was a brown single homeless man.

I don't know that I would call Jesus "homeless" as much as he was nomadic, as many people in those times were. And, he traveled in his adult life, but always had his boyhood home in Nazareth. He lived the life of a missionary, which is nomadic in nature. I think actual homelessness in those times had more to do with the loneliness of no family or community ties.

[yewchapel]

I'm not Christian, but I agree. Rejecting modern things is an Amish practice, NOT a requirement of Christianity in general.

Pitching in to help in times of need, though, strikes me as a classically Christian practice that they just follow more than others.

Forgiving others even when they do heinous things: it's not part of my belief system, but it does sound like the Christian "turn the other cheek" doctrine being put into practice even in the most extreme situations. It's not something that I see as required or even desirable, but I do respect that they can be so committed to that belief.

Of course helping and forgiving others is a good thing (and it should be pointed out that it's done by plenty of non-Christians). But it doesn't make them the Best Christians Ever when they run puppy mills and stunt their children's education and have an extremely narrow view of doctrine. They may seem to be nicer than most fundies we discuss but that isn't difficult - and I do consider the Amish to be fundies.

[yewchapel]

I don't know that I would call Jesus "homeless" as much as he was nomadic, as many people in those times were. And, he traveled in his adult life, but always had his boyhood home in Nazareth. He lived the life of a missionary, which is nomadic in nature. I think actual homelessness in those times had more to do with the loneliness of no family or community ties.

I was going by Luke 9:58/Matthew 8:20.

[Olive Plant]

*groan* I actually hate that question, though I know I did sort of invite it. (I managed to be on here for years without over-sharing damned near anything about myself. I blame my husband's illness ;) )

That's kind of hard to answer, since I've been taking English to some extent since I first started school - but Serbo-Croation. *sigh* Or what's left of it: The language(s) re-fractured when the country did. There was always a plurality in how Serbs and Croats dealt with the language, but to see it fracture by bloc, and quickly...wow. (Want to see what racism and genocide can do to a people? Check that place out. Parts of it are like a boiling microcosm of everything wrong about human nature.)

A little German. Also some French; I took that for years, too, but never quite enjoyed it in the same way as I do English - so I wasn't a terribly good student.

My parents were right about one thing: There's a reason why English is spoken internationally whereas a lot of other languages are not. It's highly flexible and doesn't have the same burdens a more officially regulated language would - or a language where nouns are generally masculine, feminine, or neuter (which affects the verbs used around them, among other things). It's kind of hard to explain, but English is super-elastic when compared to a lot of other languages. It's also a lot of fun: I was watching a documentary about dialects in Appalachia (US) the other day and loved hearing about it.

There is an English standard, to some extent, but there is no regulatory school of standardization (such as is the case with French).

I never thought, though, that I'd *need* English. Ha ha; I'm a dumbass. I didn't even choose to work as a writer; I just sort of ended up selling services while I attended university – also worked at a low-end hotel, but the rent was cheap - and simply never stopped. (I seem to get hired often to write about unfortunate topics, such as the fate of the Inuit in Northern Canada and the genocide in Rwanda and the Nazi Holocaust. I initially said no to those projects, but then realized...well someone has to do it. Why not me?)

Burris, my internet crush on you just became flaming. Da-aamn. You write like you do in a second language? Holy SHIT. English is my first language, but I totally get what you mean about its flexibility compared to some other languages. Except for the lack of a real third person singular gender-neutral pronoun, like you mention. That can be really annoying.

[Burris]

Burris, my internet crush on you just became flaming.

Uuuum, you might want to read my post directly above yours before stoking that internet crush.

[rward]

I have more respect for the Amish then any of the fundies that keep pushing their religion on me.

How can somone seriously hate the Amish? They're more Christian then the Duggars, Maxwells and every lolfundie family combined along with their quiver.

I'll tell you why I hate the Amish: They're the worst puppy millers on the planet. The abuse and neglect of their breeding dogs defies description. The dogs are kept in tiny cages, never given medical care, grooming, affection or anything but the crappiest food, bred at every heat and left in their cages to suffer and die if they get sick. Maybe, if the dog is lucky, they get dropped on the side of the road when they can no longer get pregnant. That's lucky. Unlucky is to be starved to death, drowned or stomped to death.

Best Christians ever, my ass.

[zcccrv]

Burris, you're making this hyper opinionated, largely cynical, atheist bitch feel like some sort of mushy tragic movie character. :D

I've been friends with a few Germans in their early and mid 30ies and I couldn't bare how they still held the burden of (in a very loose sense) their Nazi history. I found it to be tragic. Burdens do serve a purpose I suppose, up to a point when they become self serving. The US has a similarly tough subject in regards to slavery. White guilt? Defensive, not good. White non-guilt? Too soon, not good. Black's exclusive rights to "nigger"? Divisive, not good. Blacks pretending like all is swell? You get the picture.

The only potential way out that I see is more and more people coming to terms with being very much capable of violence, prone to conformity and susceptible to manipulation. That does not mean those acts shouldn't be judged and harshly so. It means we should perhaps strive for eliminating the "I would never do such a thing" sanctimonious feeling. At least that's my way of handling it. As a human I feel responsibility for doing right by the victim but I also feel responsibility for the behavior the aggressor exhibits. And the aggressor often has a much harder time of coming to terms with the whole thing.

I don't know if I would hold the same opinion if someone close to me had died as a result of war, I can only cautiously hope that I would. Don't take my word on it. I was a kid during the war and yes I was scared on occasion and I do still get twitchy when a strange alarm goes off but I didn't see death and suffering up close.

It's fucked up but perhaps it is more fucked up to dwell too much on it.

[zcccrv]

Regarding the "it was war" notion and the Nazi attitude you mention..

Call me too optimistic but I think a very big part of it is the fact that we are very capable of blocking big stuff out as a form of self defense. "Perhaps I couldn't handle it if I were to let just a bit of doubt creep in, so better to pretend nothing has changed", that sort of a thing. The same mechanism that goes into blocking trauma so thoroughly you forget it even happened.

Violence still happens and will happen. I do hope it is generally on the decline. That, if true, would be fanfreakingtastic even if it doesn't sound very grandiose.

[Burris]

Violence still happens and will happen. I do hope it is generally on the decline. That, if true, would be fanfreakingtastic even if it doesn't sound very grandiose.

When I started university here, it was learned early - I don't know by whom - that I could write about genocide. And so that's how I got paid and sometimes still do. Most of the words I've published - under no name but the banner of whomever hired me - are about genocide. Tens of thousands of words. Then someone else would get my number and ask me - I met with survivors of the Rwandan genocide who requested it to my face - to write their stories. I almost said no - God help me. But I couldn't look them in the face and tell them to find someone else. That I did for free - how the hell could I charge them?

I love English; I hate - hate - my career. I hate almost every single word I've officially published. I'm not joking. But I do it. They call and ask and I do it.

So I'll die as I've lived - a morally deformed, physically damaged cynic whose job is to write about genocide.

But even I am happy to see people who are optimists. Thank you. You have no idea how much I appreciate hearing your perspective - sincerely. Maybe, then, a day will come when I can write about the children of more enlightened people - those who refused to be cowed.

[zcccrv]

When I started university here, it was learned early - I don't know by whom - that I could write about genocide. And so that's how I got paid and sometimes still do. Most of the words I've published - under no name but the banner of whomever hired me - are about genocide. Tens of thousands of words. Then someone else would get my number and ask me - I met with survivors of the Rwandan genocide who requested it to my face - to write their stories. I almost said no - God help me. But I couldn't look them in the face and tell them to find someone else. That I did for free - how the hell could I charge them?

I love English; I hate - hate - my career. I hate almost every single word I've officially published. I'm not joking. But I do it. They call and ask and I do it.

So I'll die as I've lived - a morally deformed, physically damaged cynic whose job is to write about genocide.

But even I am happy to see people who are optimists. Thank you. You have no idea how much I appreciate hearing your perspective - sincerely. Maybe, then, a day will come when I can write about the children of more enlightened people - those who refused to be cowed.

I don't know what to say to you. You make my heart hurt a little bit. All I can say is- if you feel the need to contact me further, or if you need me to share some of your writing in my community or anything really that helps communicate, articulate and heal- please do.

[Burris]

I don't know what to say to you. You make my heart hurt a little bit.

Please, for the love of all that's good, the last thing I want is pity from you. Hate? That I could take. Pity? No!

All I can say is- if you feel the need to contact me further, or if you need me to share some of your writing in my community or anything really that helps communicate, articulate and heal- please do.

I doubt it's a thing I could ever do. I can't believe I did it here. I have nothing of use to say to your community. Literally nothing. You challenged me, and won by words alone. I never thought such a thing would happen between something like me and someone like you - especially not on a damned snark forum.

I'll look back on these logs in a week and still not understand just what the hell happened here. I've been here for years and never said a damned thing about it - both on the board and in real life. And after this, I may never do so again.

You're better than me. Your message is more powerful than mine. If it hasn't already, your community needs to hear from you.

[zcccrv]

If you're too scared to be open about it that's your decision. My opinion is that your message is stronger than mine. Mine is pretty universal, the actual circumstances are of less importance. It is also my opinion that you may be a masochist :mrgreen: but plenty people are (especially where I live, subjective judgment call). Maybe you should just come and visit these parts again some day, get drunk and spill profanities like we all do.

[MysteryHaggis]

I never expected to see Marco Borsato of all people on FJ. Rood means indeed red in Dutch, it is pronounced road.

I have a Flemish friend who is MAD about ol' Marco. I like him far too much. Rood is like some Europop Bohemian Rhapsody. :D

[Burris]

If you're too scared to be open about it that's your decision.

You bet your ass I'm scared.

My opinion is that your message is stronger than mine. Mine is pretty universal, the actual circumstances are of less importance. It is also my opinion that you may be a masochist :mrgreen: but plenty people are (especially where I live, subjective judgment call). Maybe you should just come and visit these parts again some day, get drunk and spill profanities like we all do.

LOL! I like you.

Maybe someday, when I'm not a coward...

[zcccrv]

I like you too.

Are we now done with this Disneyfied nonsense, the cynic in me is getting really nauseous.