"My parents were more interested in having kids than things"

[roddma]

I think they use this to justify their upbringing which deep down they resented. There are also secular people with <4 kids who think the child-free by choice are selfish because they aen't spending all thier money on child-related things or knock parents who give their child a little extra. Commonly, when someone says they are delaying kids because of finances , they hear "children aren't expensive, but lifestyles are or if you wait on money you'll never have any.' That is just throwing guilt on them. Children need their bellies full, a roof, and a decent education. They need to go somewhere other than the backyard. IMO it is selfish to have so many kids where you can't provide the basic needs. If a parent wants to buy a kid extra it is no one's business.

I do feel sorry fo rher. not only her disability but the fact she expects to marry and have kids; thinking she should save money for future children in middle school.

[ADoyle90815]

I think they use this to justify their upbringing which deep down they resented. There are also secular people with <4 kids who think the child-free by choice are selfish because they aen't spending all thier money on child-related things or knock parents who give their child a little extra. Commonly, when someone says they are delaying kids because of finances , they hear "children aren't expensive, but lifestyles are or if you wait on money you'll never have any.' That is just throwing guilt on them. Children need their bellies full, a roof, and a decent education. They need to go somewhere other than the backyard. IMO it is selfish to have so many kids where you can't provide the basic needs. If a parent wants to buy a kid extra it is no one's business.

I do feel sorry fo rher. not only her disability but the fact she expects to marry and have kids; thinking she should save money for future children in middle school.

I also feel sorry for Heather, as she expects to marry a RM and have children, as that's what good Mormon women do. I also think it's sad that it seems that the Mormon men she knows aren't interested in dating or marrying her, and it probably isn't because she's in a wheelchair. The sad thing is that she would completely ignore a nice non-Mormon man who would treat her as an equal partner because she's expected by her church and family to marry a Mormon. She would face pressure to convert a non-Mormon boyfriend or husband, and if she successfully converted him before the wedding, he might not be cool with not having anyone from his family at the wedding.

[roddma]

It just seems Quiverfull type fmailies make some kind of game out of poverty; like who can sacrifice the most and have the most kids. however, it is the kids who sacrifice from this mind set. They didnt pick to live this life. That is my issue. It may be safe to say 80% of larger families a relgious. So they aren't having kids because they like them necessarily. I come across comments from those who defend their big families but I often wonder if they really resented them in some way. Yes I know may be some who were happy growing up in their large family. It is just how they cut down others as though they lack family values fo rnot wearing hand-me downs.

[lilwriter85]

I think they use this to justify their upbringing which deep down they resented. There are also secular people with

I do feel sorry fo rher. not only her disability but the fact she expects to marry and have kids; thinking she should save money for future children in middle school.

I don't think Heather expects to have kids now that she is disabled. She confirmed not being able to in a couple of postings. I remembered this posting and she talked about not having kids in another posting.

paralyzedwithjoy.blogspot.com/2010/10/damaged-goods.html

[lilwriter85]

I also feel sorry for Heather, as she expects to marry a RM and have children, as that's what good Mormon women do. I also think it's sad that it seems that the Mormon men she knows aren't interested in dating or marrying her, and it probably isn't because she's in a wheelchair. The sad thing is that she would completely ignore a nice non-Mormon man who would treat her as an equal partner because she's expected by her church and family to marry a Mormon. She would face pressure to convert a non-Mormon boyfriend or husband, and if she successfully converted him before the wedding, he might not be cool with not having anyone from his family at the wedding.

I think with Heather, the Mormon men around her might not want to date her because her disability is too severe. Maybe if she was a paraplegic with use of her arms she would be married now to a fellow Mormon. Heather's age is now becoming a strike against her in the LDS community. She will be turning 29 in a few months. Heather and her family do take great pride in being LDS. They seem like nice people and I kind of think they might be ok if Heather married a non-Mormon man and maybe left the church. But Heather has pretty much stated that she wants a temple wedding. But maybe at some point she will realize that it would be ok for her to marry a non-Mormon who may not want to convert.

[lilwriter85]

It just seems Quiverfull type fmailies make some kind of game out of poverty; like who can sacrifice the most and have the most kids. however, it is the kids who sacrifice from this mind set. They didnt pick to live this life. That is my issue. It may be safe to say 80% of larger families a relgious. So they aren't having kids because they like them necessarily. I come across comments from those who defend their big families but I often wonder if they really resented them in some way. Yes I know may be some who were happy growing up in their large family. It is just how they cut down others as though they lack family values fo rnot wearing hand-me downs.

I agree with a lot of what you said. There are some large families that are happy. But I have noticed some people do rip into people from small families for having more. With Heather's family, I suspect they didn't adopt more kids from foster care because of finances. Heather has never said that kind of job her dad had. I part of her resentment might have to do with cliques in the LDS community. She talked about not having fancy shoes like other girls at her ward when was a kid. I think the girls she was talking about came from well to do LDS families where the dads had high salaries. There are some large LDS families that live comfortably on one large income. Stephanie Clark Nielson's family is an example of that and Stephanie's sister Courtney mentioned several months back that the Clark kids all had trust funds. There are some LDS women who never become SAHMs and they work outside the home or they have work at home jobs or they a have small businesses. I think some of Heather's Mormon friends were brought up in two income homes.

[Jinger Jar]

I agree with a lot of what you said. There are some large families that are happy. But I have noticed some people do rip into people from small families for having more. With Heather's family, I suspect they didn't adopt more kids from foster care because of finances. Heather has never said that kind of job her dad had. I part of her resentment might have to do with cliques in the LDS community. She talked about not having fancy shoes like other girls at her ward when was a kid. I think the girls she was talking about came from well to do LDS families where the dads had high salaries. There are some large LDS families that live comfortably on one large income. Stephanie Clark Nielson's family is an example of that and Stephanie's sister Courtney mentioned several months back that the Clark kids all had trust funds. There are some LDS women who never become SAHMs and they work outside the home or they have work at home jobs or they a have small businesses. I think some of Heather's Mormon friends were brought up in two income homes.

I agree that there are large, happy families. There are lots of them, in fact. My own family has been Catholic through-and-through at least since the 1820s, except for one of my grandmother's sisters, who went rogue and married a Methodist in the 1940s. There are plenty of mega-families throughout my family. My grandmother had 14 siblings and 12 step-siblings; my grandfather had 13 brothers and sisters. I have five, that I know of, contemporary cousins with more than 10 children, and of their children who've gotten married so far, there are several who are having babies at a brisk clip.

Between my family and my parish, spiritual home to plenty of big families, I have developed a nose for resentful and contented mega-family parents. Contented parents don't complain about the newlyweds who aren't pregnant and ask aloud if they're using artificial birth control. They don't pester other couples, including their married children, about their reproductive choices. They don't use the Bible or the teachings of their church to deny their children food or medical care. They don't torture their children. They're not forever seeking approbation that they're holier than the parents of smaller families. If their ob/gyn says no more pregnancies they may seek a second opinion, but if the second doctor says stop, they stop. They don't try to tell anyone else that their reasons for avoiding pregnancy are unjust or selfish. They don't announce another pregnancy with the qualification, "I know you think we're crazy... I know you think we're irresponsible... but we're pregnant. Again."

It's been my experience that contented mega-family parents just are. They'll offer advice if asked, but they don't share with the non-receptive. They don't get defensive about the number of kids they have or their pregnancies. They don't constantly complain about how no one understands them. They don't complain about those selfish small families or couples with no children. They're not forever speculating about who's using birth control. They're usually too busy just parenting their own kids to spend time wondering about other marriages and other families.

I also have known lots of children from big families. The ones who grew up parented by mom and dad are able to live their adult lives without looking back with resentment at what they didn't have because there were too few resources for so many kids. My grandmother was her mother's second child and her father's 14th. She was raised by a half-sister, and she in turn raised her youngest brother. She was far closer to half-sister than her own mother and mourned her brother's death as if he'd been her son. She was bitter about many aspects of childhood directly related to being one of 27 kids, she and my grandfather had exactly one child, and growing up she reminded me over and over that women were put on earth for more than simply cranking out baby after baby.

My grandfather, on the other hand, had a much different experience in his large family. His mother mothered all of her children. Into his 80s my grandfather spoke lovingly about his parents and told stories that demonstrated that his parents, especially his mother, knew him intimately as a son and not just as one of a throng of kids. She was the adored family matriarch until the day she died. I remember being at her house as a little girl, and even though I was one of maybe 25 great-grandchildren she had, she knew all about me down to what subjects I liked in school and the fact that I loved her gingerbread. She truly enjoyed mothering, and I have no doubt she had ways of making all of her children feel uniquely loved.

[Magdelope]

:o :lol:

*ba dum tss*

Do we have an "apply cold water to burn" smiley?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think she would probably have hated my family. My parents are well-off and it is only my sister and me (well, we have four half-siblings but they never lived with us). My mum would probably have loved buying me lots of clothes if I had asked but as a teenager I put all my allowance on books! ;)

They sent me abroad to study when I was seventeen which I am very grateful for and they hope to do the same with my sister if she shows the same aptitude for studying abroad as I did.

However, my parents (especially my dad) taught me the value of money and today they don't help me at all. Me and my girlfriend live on very little and we have to be thrifty to make ends meet. It is fine though, completely fine and we live very fullfilling lives!

My point being, small families and money has nothing to do with how one turns out as an adult. I was probably spoiled in her eyes but I am very good with money.

Oh and as a side note: when we do have money we do spend it on video-games so that is probably something our kids will have. That and books... our flat is full of both them!