Lori Alexander: Medicine is Bad, Mmkay?

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Her recommendations are to eat healthy, exercise, use probiotics, avoid chemicals, clean with non toxic cleaners. Yeah I think those are good recommendations.

I don't think that anybody is arguing that this is bad. Just that this will not prevent all illnesses. Nothing will prevent some illnesses. As well as the fact that it's a lie that all these illnesses didn't exist before modern processed food and cleaners. Actually a lot of stuff was a lot more toxic 100 years ago. (Lysol douches anybody? Lithium or cocaine in your soda?)

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Basically, medications and doctors can be and are good, they save lives and keep conditions under control. But they can be and are overprescribed, abused, have serious side effects, and are sometimes the first line of treatment when a lifestyle change could do the same thing. When my blood pressure went up I changed my diet and lost weight. It went back to normal. I didn't need medication. IF IT HADN'T, I would have said give me meds! When I had an anxiety problem my Dr. just gave me rxs of klonopin. It helped. But I went to individual and group therapy to learn other ways to cope and now I don't need any medication. IF IT HADN'T WORKED, I would have said give me the meds. I want to clarify I am not anti meds.

[Conuly]

Re: asthma, autism, cancer:

Firstly, the diagnostic standards for autism have changed significantly from when she was a kid. When I was a child, my parents, knowing a bit about the subject, tried to get me diagnosed. Nothing doing, because they wouldn't diagnose a girl with a large vocabulary in those days. When I went as an adult, it was called "very obvious", but I can assure everybody here, nothing about ME changed, except that possibly I became MORE adept at passing and acting normal. It was the diagnostic standards that changed.

Asthma may actually be on the increase, but funny story, I've got a twofer. When the older niece was suffering from untreated asthma, my mother and I remembered our respective childhoods of having the same symptoms and told my sister that likely nothing would come of going to the doctor. I went to the doctor so many times due to what now seems clearly to have been asthma, and the most I ever got was a diagnosis of bronchitis three winters running. I tell you, I was pretty furious when I found out. I have bitched about this so many times to Ana's doctor, and he basically reiterated the autism story, that back when I grew up they didn't know as much about asthma and therefore were less likely to diagnose marginal cases. Maybe I was marginal. I don't know. I don't know, really, how I got pushed under the rug with this one, but I know it happened, and I doubt I'm the only one. Ana went untreated a lot longer than she should have because we thought it wasn't treatable. It is infuriating, but I try not to dwell on it.

Hell, I wouldn't be very surprised if the same exact thing I said above applies to allergies as well.

Which brings us to cancer. Look at that chart up there, various contagious diseases people in this country don't die of anymore. In the end, though, they have to die of something. Cancer is a slow killer, and you're more likely to develop it the older you get. You can't die of cancer if you die of smallpox or diphtheria first, or of violence, or appendicitis, or childbirth. We get more cancer now than before because we live longer. Also, and let's not underemphasize this, when we die of cancer, we know it! In poorer places in the world today, you might die of cancer but never be counted in the statistics of the disease because you were never able to get to the doctor in the first place, and if you had the doctor could not have found the tumor due to poor technology.

Is it possible cancer rates are increasing for other reasons as well? I guess, sure. But we can't know that.

[Conuly]

A new meta-analysis finds drinking cranberry juice (or consuming cranberry-containing products) on a regular basis may help prevent urinary tract infections (UTIs) in women. The study, published in The Archives of Internal Medicine, concluded that regular cranberry-juice drinkers were 38 percent less likely than non-cranberry-juice-drinkers to develop UTIs.

Yeah, but there's no evidence that they cure UTIs, just that they may help prevent them. If you wait until you're sick to drink the stuff - and it has to be cranberry juice, not ultra sweetened "juice cocktail" - then you're not doing yourself much good.

[Wolfie]

Yep, and BTW, Lori, I eat mostly whole foods and a decent percentage organic. I exercise (currently am cooling down from a cross training session). I eat homemade yogurt regularly. And yet? I have a long list of allergies (some life threatening, and even one to cinnamon), and will be medicated for acid reflux for the rest of my life.

Yes, people can take better care of themselves. But God hasn't healed my acid reflux, though he opened my eyes enough to my own discomfort to get me some help. He also didn't heal my mother when she was dying, but he did teach me the lesson: GO TO THE DOCTOR WHEN YOU'RE SICK, DON'T TRY TO HEAL YOURSELF. YOU CAN'T DO IT. YOU MIGHT DIE LIKE YOUR MOTHER DID.

Yes. And I eat mostly organic, mostly whole foods, very little processed, make my own yogurt and water kefir, just took a loaf of homemade sourdough out of the oven. Yet I still have my face swell up to certain allergies, most noticably dogs. I have had people see my face swell up and try to tell me that it couldn't possibly be dogs, one of them was an RN. (I later confirmed that reaction WAS dog.) Allergy shots have made the reaction last for a shorter amount of time, but it hasn't stopped the reaction. But since the duration after exposure is shorter, I know modern medicine is working! Yesterday I had a reaction that was probably due to something on a student's clothing, but it only lasted a few hours and I didn't loose my voice. I still had somebody get furious with me because I was making stuff up, and trying to hurt her and if I only ate better I wouldn't be allergic to her dog.

[Wolfie]

Re: asthma, autism, cancer:

Firstly, the diagnostic standards for autism have changed significantly from when she was a kid. When I was a child, my parents, knowing a bit about the subject, tried to get me diagnosed. Nothing doing, because they wouldn't diagnose a girl with a large vocabulary in those days. When I went as an adult, it was called "very obvious", but I can assure everybody here, nothing about ME changed, except that possibly I became MORE adept at passing and acting normal. It was the diagnostic standards that changed.

This- looking back, I would have had high functioning autistim as a child by today's criteria. I was not diagnosed with anything until I was in my late teens, and it was ADHD. Though I do question, when somebody does something I really think of as abnormal and unexpected if it's my brain being strange or if they really did do something. Generally when I tell others, they also say that it was abnormal. (I have one school administration who has no respect for me, and has done some really odd things trying to control every little thing I do, or to actually undermine me.)

[Wolfie]

Duh? Of course some illnesses cannot be prevented. But some can. Cancer risk can be dramatically cut if you stop smoking, lose weight, and eat better. Yet, some people will still get cancer. That doesn't mean you can't be proactive in your health. As for the real food, yes obviously there is real food at the store. But the middle of the store is full of boxes, cans, and frozen items where the main ingredient is high fructose corn syrup. There's cheese balls and brightly dyed cereals and 99c muffins that have 40 ingredients you cannot pronounce. Prescription drugs can and ARE helpful and life saving. But maybe you dont need a pill for heartburn, a pill to go to sleep at night, a pill for this, a pill for that. They are also powerful and can kill you.

Two of my grandparents died of cancer related complications. Neither were drinkers, neither smoked, neither were an unhealthy weight, both ate mostly from scratch and not a lot of processed foods. So 2 out of 4 is a 50% rate, that's not saying much for how much you can cut from lifestyle choices.

People want to blame something rather than letting it be chance. Sometimes it is just chance and there is nothing to blame.

ETA- two of my mom's grandparents also died of cancer. Again, very healthy, very active people. Both ate the diet that these people push, one was a butcher, the other ran the family farm that was in HER name, and did as much as possible without electricity, so she was very hard working.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

My mom was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes at age 9. If it weren't for insulin and intervention from EMT's and doctors (for sugar crashes, heart attack requiring double bypass, stroke, removal of bone in her toe from infection, eye surgery, etc.) she wouldn't have made to 55 like she did. Modern medicine kept my mom alive! So, Lori can take her kumbaya tea and shove it. :angry-banghead: :angry-cussingblack: :angry-fire:

ETA:

Uh huh. I guess that's why I just plow through chronic pain drug-free because all the eleventy doctors I've seen are too afraid to prescribe me anything more than a low dose of muscle-relaxers. Also why I have to INSIST over and over to have my thyroid checked and medicated because my labs are always just outside of what insurance determines is problematic, never mind my symptoms. :roll:

Same here. :( :x

[Burris]

Duh? Of course some illnesses cannot be prevented. But some can. Cancer risk can be dramatically cut if you stop smoking, lose weight, and eat better. Yet, some people will still get cancer. That doesn't mean you can't be proactive in your health. As for the real food, yes obviously there is real food at the store. But the middle of the store is full of boxes, cans, and frozen items where the main ingredient is high fructose corn syrup. There's cheese balls and brightly dyed cereals and 99c muffins that have 40 ingredients you cannot pronounce.

No one argues that. But it's a leap from 'highly processed food is available at grocery stores, and on the cheap' to 'and most people eat fake food - perhaps more than any other kind - and don't exercize enough which is why they're fat.'

Read Lori and her fangirls: You'd think apples were loaded with corn syrup the way they talk.

Prescription drugs can and ARE helpful and life saving. But maybe you dont need a pill for heartburn, a pill to go to sleep at night, a pill for this, a pill for that. They are also powerful and can kill you.

And maybe - just maybe - doctors and their patients are the in the best position to figure that out.

I take sleep aids. Powerful ones. If I don't, I sometimes wake up screaming or with my hands wrapped around some part of my husband or walking around without any idea how I ended up a certain place.

And yet, on those rare IRL occasions when I mention sleep aids, I've sometimes gotten, "Sleep is a natural occurrence, duh! You don't need that shit."

Silly me, preferring sleep over violent night-terrors.

My point: Dr. Lori thinks she's an expert on this, and those of her leg-humpers who take her advice could be endangers themselves or their children just because Lori is a conspiracy nut with a chip on her shoulder.

You want links on Americans using a lot of medications, antibiotics being over prescribed, and obesity? Ok:

http://www.businessinsider.com/infograp ... ted-2012-2

Nearly 50 percent of Americans take prescription drugs, with the number of people taking more than five drugs rising 70 percent between 2000 and 2008.

I asked for proof antibiotics are still overperscribed. I'm not seeing it in your link.

And for how long do those 50% of Americans take drugs? For what? Could it have something to do with the higher percentage of senior citizens alive and active?

Doctors write prescriptions, often with incentives from drug companies, even though most drugs work for only 30 to 50 percent of patients, according to Allen Roses, an academic geneticist from Duke University.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/infograp ... z2MP6hPK7x

First of all, that is not exactly what Roses said - and secondly, he also works for GlaxoSmithKline. That smells a little like a conflict of interest to me.

Here's what he actually said:

Allen Roses, worldwide vice-president of genetics at GlaxoSmithKline (GSK), said fewer than half of the patients prescribed some of the most expensive drugs actually derived any benefit from them. (Link)

(Emphasis mine)

And I'm sure some doctors do get kick-backs. Human nature. But what you're alleging is almost a conspiracy. Could that be true? Maybe. Do you offer proof of it here? Not really.

But your 'citation' below was what really did me in:

http://www.totalhealthinstitute.com/articles-research/americans-are-overmedicating/

About 130 million Americans swallow, inject, inhale, infuse, spray, and pat on prescribed medication every month, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention indicates. Americans buy much more medicine per person than any other country in the world.The number of prescriptions has grown by two-thirds over the past ...[sNIP]...majority in prescriptions, according to industry consultants. That is about $850 spent on drugs for every American. - See more at: http://www.totalhealthinstitute.com/art ... ky2vh.dpuf

Total Health Institute, eh? I wonder who they are? Let's just take a look:

Dedicated to drug-free, holistic treatment plans, the Total Health Institute aims to help clients achieve total body wellness. (Link)

And from the THI website itself:

We do not treat any symptom, condition or disease. We never have and never will. But what we do is treat the cause of all symptoms, conditions and diseases instead of treating the effects which are the actual symptoms, conditions and diseases that have manifested from imbalances in the body/mind complex.

Uh...

I hate to be a real downer, here, but some of your sources are less than, er, neutral.

http://www.asipp.org/documents/TESTIMONY-FROMEXECUTIVECOMMITTEE-RESPONDINGTOTHEPRESCRIPTIONDRUGEPIDEMIC-STRATEGIESFORREDUCI.pdf

Okay, and so to treat this crisis, the ASIPP offers courses on pain management without the use of opiods. There's a big shiny list of them on the main page.

Want expert training on Neurostimulation? Two day training workshop: $4500. Guess the pharma companies aren't the only ones making money off others' suffering.

And what else do they do besides training?

Of course...

ASIPP – PAC - ASIPP is recognized by members of Congress and the Administration as one of the most involved and influential medical political action committees. Each year at our Annual Meeting, held in Washington, DC, ASIPP provides the opportunity for its members to take their issues directly to their officials. These Capitol Hill visits are preceded by a Legislative Session featuring preparatory sessions and an array of distinguished Congressional speakers. (Link)

And so...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/14/health/gupta-accidental-overdose/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_health+%28RSS%3A+Health%29

As a starting point, 80% of the world's pain pills are consumed right here in the United States, according to 2011 congressional testimony from the American Society of Interventional Pain Physicians.

(Emphasis mine)

Your strongest data are here:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db42.htm

Key findings

Over the last 10 years, the percentage of Americans who took at least one prescription drug in the past month increased from 44% to 48%. The use of two or more drugs increased from 25% to 31%. The use of five or more drugs increased from 6% to 11%.

In 2007-2008, 1 out of every 5 children and 9 out of 10 older Americans reported using at least one prescription drug in the past month.

...except a prescription drug could be anything from an asthma inhaler to, I kid you not, oxygen. That's right: O2 is a prescription drug. Didn't know that until my husband needed it.

http://www.losethebackpain.com/blog/2011/11/10/prescription-drug-statistics/

Pharmaceuticals are a $650 billion dollar a year business — $307 billion in the U.S. alone — and for years the most profitable U.S. business has been the pharmaceutical companies.

Lose The Back Pain is the site of a for-profit company that sells alternative therapies (and 'natural' drugs). BONK!

And then you offer this:

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/nov/13 ... e-20121113

Antibiotic overuse remains a problem in the U.S., researchers say

The map was unveiled Tuesday as part of Get Smart About Antibiotics Week — an annual event that focuses on antibiotic resistance. That morning, representatives from the 25 health organizations that signed on to a new policy statement regarding antibiotic overuse spoke with reporters about some of the findings, noting that infections that once were easy to treat, including urinary tract infections, are now resistant to medication.

On Monday, Consumers Union, publisher of Consumer Reports, called for a "major reduction in the use of antibiotics in food animal production." About 80% of all antibiotics sold in the U.S. are used on food animals, the consumer group said. It also reported that earlier this year, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration asked livestock growers to voluntarily cut antibiotic use in animals to promote growth.

[Bloo]

Cleaning with non toxic cleaners....I do use an all natural dish soap, but for cleaning the bathroom and even doing laundry I absolutely have to use bleach. My husband has a fucking colostomy bag and I change diapers at work. My apartment would be E Coli central if I didn't, and we'd be hella sick CONSTANTLY.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Two of my grandparents died of cancer related complications. Neither were drinkers, neither smoked, neither were an unhealthy weight, both ate mostly from scratch and not a lot of processed foods. So 2 out of 4 is a 50% rate, that's not saying much for how much you can cut from lifestyle choices.

People want to blame something rather than letting it be chance. Sometimes it is just chance and there is nothing to blame.

ETA- two of my mom's grandparents also died of cancer. Again, very healthy, very active people. Both ate the diet that these people push, one was a butcher, the other ran the family farm that was in HER name, and did as much as possible without electricity, so she was very hard working.

That's not exactly a scientific study. I said some people will get cancer regardless. It can be random, it can be a genetic predisposition. I also said lifestyle choices can affect your risk of cancer. Like obesity, what you eat, smoke, exposure to carcinogens etc. Why are you arguing with this? These are facts. My ex (because I am divorced but I still see her) great grandmother in law lives off of coffee, donuts, and cigarettes and is 90 years old. That doesn't mean an unhealthy diet and cigarettes can be recommended because they obviously do not cause illness.

[VooDooChild]

Same here. :( :x

:( I'm sorry. Gentle hugs.

[Wolfie]

That's not exactly a scientific study. I said some people will get cancer regardless. It can be random, it can be a genetic predisposition. I also said lifestyle choices can affect your risk of cancer. Like obesity, what you eat, smoke, exposure to carcinogens etc. Why are you arguing with this? These are facts. My ex (because I am divorced but I still see her) great grandmother in law lives off of coffee, donuts, and cigarettes and is 90 years old. That doesn't mean an unhealthy diet and cigarettes can be recommended because they obviously do not cause illness.

But both of these examples don't say "If you make bad lifestyle choices, you will be unhealthy." Neither do they say "You must be unhealthy because you make bad lifestyle choices." So much more of it is genetics than lifestyle choices. I don't disagree that we should try to make the best choices, but the reason that we see more illnesses isn't because all these people are making poor choices. There is way more to it, the most likely that with modern medicine people survive things that they would not have survived in the past.

I wouldn't even have been born alive without modern medicine. (my mom's water broke early and she had to be induced because she wasn't going into labor.) I have some genetic issues and some other issues that are probably related to my slightly early birth (though I'll never know for certain about those), not to my lifestyle choices.

[mockingbird]

That's not exactly a scientific study. I said some people will get cancer regardless. It can be random, it can be a genetic predisposition. I also said lifestyle choices can affect your risk of cancer. Like obesity, what you eat, smoke, exposure to carcinogens etc. Why are you arguing with this? These are facts. My ex (because I am divorced but I still see her) great grandmother in law lives off of coffee, donuts, and cigarettes and is 90 years old. That doesn't mean an unhealthy diet and cigarettes can be recommended because they obviously do not cause illness.

To me it comes off like you are blaming people who get cancer for getting it because they weren't being "proactive" enough, and that's offensive.

Do you have anything to support your claim that cancer rates are *dramatically* decreased if you lose weight or follow a healthier diet? Curious because there have been numerous studies that prove obvious direct links between certain behaviors or risk factors and cancer (i.e. smoking, radiation [like with Chernobyl], certain occupations like coal mining) but everything I have read/heard about nutrition and exercise has been more general, like that you will improve your health overall so by default that includes generalized cancer risk, but nothing that says obesity, for example, is specifically linked to a significantly increased risk of cancer.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

If Americans were not buying a SHITLOAD of processed foods, it would not be such a huge industry. All one has to do is look at the stuff on the shelves. And the statistics on how many fruits and vegetables people eat. And how many people are obese. And if people were not taking a SHITLOAD of drugs then it would not be such a huge industry. The fact that antibiotics is in our food only illustrates my point that a lot of our food system is disgusting. Factory farming is disgusting. Bacteria resistance is a real problem. Deadly staph outbreaks that plague our hospitals are real problems. They certainly are still over prescribing antibiotics in our meat supply.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162- ... the-south/

Elderly people in the South use more antibiotics than the rest of their peers in the U.S., leading researchers to believe that doctors in the region may be overprescribing the drugs.

About 21 percent of people 65 and older in the South used an antibiotic on average each quarter of the year, compared to 17 percent of people in the West and 19 percent of people in the Midwest. There was no discernible difference in disease prevalence in any of the regions

The World Health Organization's director-general, Dr. Margaret Chan, spoke about the fear that overuse of antibiotics could lead to super bugs during a conference in Copenhagen earlier this year. She mentioned that if rates continue as they do "things as common as strep throat or a child's scratched knee could once again kill" due to drug-resistant bacteria.

The study was published online during September 2012 in the Archives of Internal Medicine.

http://avivaromm.com/children_antibiotics

Last week (September 1, 2011) the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) released the report of its first look in over a decade at how well docs in the US are doing at reducing unnecessary antibiotic prescriptions for kids. They discovered that, while there has been a substantial improvement since the early 1990s, overall doctors are unnecessarily prescribing antibiotics for kids more than 50% of the time! Most of the overprescribing is for common upper respiratory and ear infections.

The inappropriate use of antibiotics is now well known to be a major cause of antibiotic resistance. Antibiotic resistance has been called one of the world’s most pressing public health problems and international campaigns are underway to help reduce over-prescribing. Additionally, new information is being raised about pediatric antibiotic exposure and later development of asthma.

http://www.cdc.gov/getsmart/antibiotic- ... facts.html

Antibiotic resistance has been called one of the world’s most pressing public health problems.

The number of bacteria resistant to antibiotics has increased in the last decade. Many bacterial infections are becoming resistant to the most commonly prescribed antibiotic treatments.

Parent pressure makes a difference. For pediatric care, a study showed that doctors prescribe antibiotics 62% of the time if they perceive parents expect them and 7% of the time if they feel parents do not expect them.[1]

Antibiotics were prescribed in 68% of acute respiratory tract visits – and of those, 80% were unnecessary according to CDC guidelines.[2]

Widespread overuse and inappropriate use of antibiotics continues to fuel an increase in antibiotic-resistant bacteria.So the next time you or your child really needs an antibiotic for a bacterial infection, it may not work.

Antibiotic resistance is also an economic burden on the entire healthcare system. Resistant infections cost more to treat and can prolong healthcare use.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/ ... 7G20111108

That translates to more than 10 million antibiotic prescriptions each year that likely won't do any good but might do harm, said study leader Adam Hersh of the University of Utah in Salt Lake City.

"One reason overuse occurs is because the diagnosis is often unclear -- this is common with ear infections. The decision is made to prescribe an antibiotic even though the diagnosis isn't certain, just to be on the safe side," he said.

Half of all the antibiotics prescribed were "broad-spectrum" drugs, which act against a wide range of bacteria -- killing more of the good bacteria in the bodies as well and perhaps setting the child up for more serious infections with antibiotic-resistant bacteria later on.

http://roguemedic.com/2012/12/more-evid ... at-change/

Today Lancet Infectious Diseases posted an early release of an article that shows that the antibiotic amoxicillin still does not work on viruses.

Many doctors still routinely prescribe antibiotics for viral infections.

Our trial is the largest study so far of the use of antibiotics in acute lower-respiratory-tract infection, and adds much to the placebo-controlled evidence noted in the Cochrane review, especially data for patients aged 60 years or older.16 Compared with placebo, amoxicillin did not significantly affect the duration of symptoms rated “moderately bad†or worse in the first few days of infection, neither overall nor in patients older than 60 years. Symptom severity also did not differ significantly between treatment groups. Amoxicillin prevented some patients from developing new or worse symptoms but the number needed to treat was high and matched by a similarly sized number needed to harm for side-effects. Our data suggest, if anything, a smaller benefit from antibiotics for symptoms and a clearer estimate of harms than did the Cochrane review. Thus, unless pneumonia is suspected, antibiotics should not be prescribed for patients with acute lower-respiratory-tract infection.[1]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2013/ ... ce-roberts

. In the UK, most antibiotics are prescribed by GPs, and the evidence suggests that prescriptions could be significantly reduced without adverse effects – antibiotics don't do much for runny noses, sore throats, bronchitis, sinusitis, or even middle ear infections. Unfortunately, GPs seem to be prescribing more of them. For instance, from 2003 to 2006 there was a 10% increase in prescriptions of antibiotics to children in the UK. Pressure from patients doesn't help – in France, apparently more than 50% of people expect to be prescribed an antibiotic for flu-like illnesses. In

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 091218.htm

From today

http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Health/ ... 50661.html

Professor Nigel Stocks, head of general practice at the University of Adelaide, says antibiotics are overused in Australia.

This increases the number of bacteria that are resistant to commonly used antibiotics and creates an expectation that antibiotics will cure what is usually a viral infection.

Here is some cheery news from a couple days ago

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162-575 ... uidelines/

Fearing antibiotic overuse and resistance, the American Academy of Pediatrics has released a new set of guidelines on how to treat the common ailment. They hope this will clarify for doctors and parents when a child needs immediate antibiotics or when they should wait.

Despite significant publicity, the study authors noted that studies have shown that doctors were hesitant to follow the 2004 recommendations, and antibiotic prescribing rates went largely unaffected in the years that following their release.

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-02-c ... mazon.html

A major review recently published in Frontiers of Microbiology examines the broader issues associated with widespread antibiotic resistance. The paper, by Professor Michael Gillings from Macquarie University, discussed the increasing concentration of antibiotics in densely populated areas. He says that the effects of antibiotics and resistance genes have now spread to locations distant from the influence of developed societies, such as the Artic, Antarctica, and the Amazonian jungle.

[Free2BeMe]

I need a LINK to prove Americans consume a lot of drugs and eat too much garbage? If you have watched TV then you have been told to ask your Dr. about such and such. If you have been to a grocery store you will see what passes as "food."

Her recommendations are to eat healthy, exercise, use probiotics, avoid chemicals, clean with non toxic cleaners. Yeah I think those are good recommendations.

The other one is the drug one which I took as "don't be do quick to jump on a drug bandwagon when maybe there are alternatives." I am thinking like antidepressants, which I use. But I don't want to be on them for life so I also know that exercise, foods, therapy etc are options. And I've refused antibiotics from drs several times. I'd rather try to clear up my uti with cranberry juice and vitamins. My body can and does heal itself. I am different from fundies in that if it doesn't get better ill seek a dr instead of dying of sepsis. Personal preference I have.

-------

So people with mental health issues should drop their meds,and just eat fluffy foods and talk to somebody about thier problems? Yep, I'll tell my brother that he can quit taking his Sertraline and just eat tofu and whole grain shit.

Please, stay on your meds for the good of society. Some folks have to take a medicine in order to function in daily life.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

But both of these examples don't say "If you make bad lifestyle choices, you will be unhealthy." Neither do they say "You must be unhealthy because you make bad lifestyle choices." So much more of it is genetics than lifestyle choices. I don't disagree that we should try to make the best choices, but the reason that we see more illnesses isn't because all these people are making poor choices. There is way more to it, the most likely that with modern medicine people survive things that they would not have survived in the past.

I wouldn't even have been born alive without modern medicine. (my mom's water broke early and she had to be induced because she wasn't going into labor.) I have some genetic issues and some other issues that are probably related to my slightly early birth (though I'll never know for certain about those), not to my lifestyle choices.

And I never said that either. I said people CAN make choices that CAN affect their risk. I do not see the point in arguing against healthy eating. You only have to go to Cancer organization websites to see that they too outline ways to decrease your risks. And really, its not just cancer I am referring to. When I say we have more chronically ill people its not just because we have people living a longer life. Its because there is a HUGE increase in diseases like type II diabetes and blood pressure issues and heart disease and YES it OFTEN NOT ALWAYS has to do with the types and amounts of foods you eat and how sedentary you are.

I had one hospital birth with too many unnecessary interventions that was miserable. Catheter, failed epidural, stadol shot that made me crazy, episiotomy and I tore. Terrible recovery. The second birth was a homebirth with a Certified Nurse Midwife. I was able to squat. No tearing, no cutting. I had taken a certain tea during the pregnancy. I barely bled during my recovery. It was great. Does that mean I am against hospital births? No. My third was a planned homebirth but I fell and had a placental abruption that became evident in labor. So I WENT TO THE HOSPITAL. They are there for a reason. I am pro healthy pregnancy and labor practices. I personally prefer natural birth. I also recommend hospital birth if you want it or need it. Its all about educating yourself about different possible outcomes and risks, whether its birth or food choices or chemical free bath products or whatever you care about.

[LostSamurai]

Antibiotics and other medications is what has kept my mother alive all this time. She's got asthma and this past year almost died due to pneumonia and severe anemia.

But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO according to this dipshit, JESUS WILL CURE U!

[NotALoserLikeYou]

-------

So people with mental health issues should drop their meds,and just eat fluffy foods and talk to somebody about thier problems? Yep, I'll tell my brother that he can quit taking his Sertraline and just eat tofu and whole grain shit.

Please, stay on your meds for the good of society. Some folks have to take a medicine in order to function in daily life.

No shit. That's why I mentioned that I take an antidepressant. Where the FUCK did I say anyone, especially people with mental health issues, should drop their meds? I said sometimes there are other options that CAN help. I personally did not want to be on anxiety meds for the rest of my life so I sought therapy and figured out why I was so anxious and learned coping methods so that I didnt have panic attacks. For me it was important to try to really fix it instead of keeping it at bay with a pill. Believe me, I FULLY understand the hell that is depression and anxiety and I highly support medical resources for people like that. There are plenty of people in my life that I wish would use them.

[Free2BeMe]

Yeah, but there's no evidence that they cure UTIs, just that they may help prevent them. If you wait until you're sick to drink the stuff - and it has to be cranberry juice, not ultra sweetened "juice cocktail" - then you're not doing yourself much good.

^That

[Burris]

If Americans were not buying a SHITLOAD of processed foods, it would not be such a huge industry.

I should have bet money this would be your next response, after I pointed out what was wrong with damned near every source you tried to cite in your last attempt to...uh...I think you were trying to prove some sort of point.

Just to rehash, you cited an alternative health clinic that doesn't believe in the traditional definition of disease, an executive for GSK. a super-PAC that makes huge bank off their condemnation of pharmaceutical use, and what amounts to an online health food and alt-drug store. (The fact you managed to fit the CDC in there somewhere was surely an accident.)

And now that I have pointed out, using one of your own damned sources, that antibiotic overuse is primarily the result of feedlot misuse, you pull this rabbit out of your hat: 'Well, gee golly; it's your fault anyway, for eating all those foods the US health inspectors said were safe for human consumption.'

All one has to do is look at the stuff on the shelves. And the statistics on how many fruits and vegetables people eat. And how many people are obese.

Uh huh - and yet you are essentially arguing that people using prescribed drugs are off the hook for determining whether or not the side-effects are worth the benefits - which is why you harped on doctors and big pharma but said little about patient responsibility.

And if people were not taking a SHITLOAD of drugs then it would not be such a huge industry.

Okay so you are arguing that doctors and pharma are in this together, sharing kickbacks, and at the same time you think sometimes uneducated individuals are responsible for taking too many drugs as prescribed.

I am not wasting more of my life going through another round of what will likely turn out to be equally useless citations just to argue with you. I already had to endure a round of your web bingo once – and FFS, learn to embed your links.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

[Wolfie]

And I never said that either. I said people CAN make choices that CAN affect their risk. I do not see the point in arguing against healthy eating. You only have to go to Cancer organization websites to see that they too outline ways to decrease your risks. And really, its not just cancer I am referring to. When I say we have more chronically ill people its not just because we have people living a longer life. Its because there is a HUGE increase in diseases like type II diabetes and blood pressure issues and heart disease and YES it OFTEN NOT ALWAYS has to do with the types and amounts of foods you eat and how sedentary you are.

I had one hospital birth with too many unnecessary interventions that was miserable. Catheter, failed epidural, stadol shot that made me crazy, episiotomy and I tore. Terrible recovery. The second birth was a homebirth with a Certified Nurse Midwife. I was able to squat. No tearing, no cutting. I had taken a certain tea during the pregnancy. I barely bled during my recovery. It was great. Does that mean I am against hospital births? No. My third was a planned homebirth but I fell and had a placental abruption that became evident in labor. So I WENT TO THE HOSPITAL. They are there for a reason. I am pro healthy pregnancy and labor practices. I personally prefer natural birth. I also recommend hospital birth if you want it or need it. Its all about educating yourself about different possible outcomes and risks, whether its birth or food choices or chemical free bath products or whatever you care about.

I am not arguing against healthy eating. What I am saying is that it's not the be all, end all of what causes diseases. And for what it's worth, type II diabetes' main cause is genetic, same with high blood pressure and cholesterol. Yes, they can be made worse by lifestyle, but it isn't the cause. And if you have the genetics for them, they can still hit with a very good lifestyle. All three, plus heart disease, run in my family. We are not overweight, we are very active, we don't eat much processed stuff, but it's there. My great grandmother had all three issues (not the one who died of cancer, the heart disease killed her), and she was an active gardener, ate well, and up to the end of her life she was out playing tennis before breakfast. My mom has the blood pressure and cholesterol problems, and no matter what she did with diet or excersize (she walks 2 miles daily), she couldn't get it down without meds. I'm now dealing with borderline high bad cholesterol and low good cholesterol, as I've said before, I eat well, mostly non-procesed homemade stuff, and am very active. (I have to be, I live alone on a mini farm and work as a teacher at multiple schools) One thing my family is lucky with, is that we don't have any tendency toward obesity, but strangely, I know people who do have a genetic issue with obesity who don't have the above problems, yet eat well and are still obese.

It sounds like you're listening to both the media and types like we're talking about and not getting into the real medical research.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Uh huh - and yet you are essentially arguing that people using prescribed drugs are off the hook for determining whether or not the side-effects are worth the benefits - which is why you harped on doctors and big pharma but said little about patient responsibility.

Pretty sure I have said a ton about patient responsibility, starting in my first post when I said people should be more informed and proactive about their own health. You dont think people in this country are fat, sick, an dying due to their own lifestyle choices? I guess you can research it yourself. You dont think antibiotics are still overprescribed? I hope you never get MRSA. I stated numerous times that medicines can and do help people. I also am trying to say that getting off of the koolaid, literally, can MAYBE POSSIBLY BECAUSE THERE IS A SCIENTIFIC REASON save you from diabetes, obesity, high blood pressure, cancer etc. And if anyone gets those diseases, please seek medical help for crying out loud. But also feel free to you know, educate yourself about alternatives because there isnt a magic pill to prevent and treat everything.