Rebeccaeleventy's Dad's post

[formergothardite]

It's hisblog; he can do whatever he wants.

Well, it is his daughter's blog, but he could have written it in pig latin if he wanted to. But he was writing to us and obviously wanted us to be able to understand what he was saying and the way he wrote it made if very hard to do that. I don't think it is weird at all to point out that if you want to people to easily understand what you are trying to communicate, use paragraphs and organize your thoughts.

[lilwriter85]

Yeah, but... it was an attempt at communication, and it was difficult to understand. He failed at the thing he was trying to do and people are commenting on that. It's a normal response.

I agree, people had a difficult understanding what he was trying to convey. I had to re-read parts of the passage a few times. I have read similar testimonials about addiction and finding religion. My cousin has written testimonials about how he found religion after dealing with addiction. My cousin makes sure that his message is put across in a way for people to understand.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

It's true that it's his blog, but it's also true that he wrote a book and expects people to buy it.

[formergothardite]

I almost didn't read it because I scanned and saw that it was going to be a challenge to figure out what he was trying to say. It looks like he wrote it somewhere else and copy/pasted it to the blog and when he did the whole thing got messed up. Sentences drop off in the middle and start back up on other lines, I'm sure he didn't write it that way originally.

I don't think it shows a lack of intelligence, just that he didn't take the time to read over it and fix the lines that got messed up. Who knows why, he could have been rushed or just didn't care. But if you want to be able to easily convey a message, you don't present it like he did.

[Syd+Marky]

Im not too old or too young to understand what this guy is trying to say.And it doesnt sound too easy either.I have known many people in recovery (including myself).Some of them tried it this way(God will heal me if I truly believe).Some of those people are dead from their addictions,now.

No 12 step meetings?Im supposing that means no SMART recovery,Rational Recovery,etc.,either?Even my Christian friends in recovery will tell you that doesnt work forever!If Rebeccas Dad is open to reading anything but the bible,the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous explains this very well.

Rebeccas Dad says "I know you cant be as far gone as I was"-How does he know that?!Because he lost his faith?Is he judging other addicts "bottoms",now?If hes never been to a real recovery meeting,how could he know how "far gone" anyone has been?

"Ask him!",he says.Ya,I tried that.Again,& again,& again.Guess where it got me?!A suicide attempt,& four open-heart surgeries! A very kind nurse in recovery explained to me that it would never work that way,& gave me a copy of the AA book.

13 yrs later Im alive,& clean&sober.Unfotunately,many friends who chose the route of Rebeccas Dad,are not.

[bionicmlle]

Jerry posted again -- the post served as my Saturday morning word puzzle but I THINK he is saying that the world won't be nice to you and you should be nice to your spouse. The misuse of punctuation is KILLING me.

[Guest Anonymous]

I saw this. Oh dear, it is starting to look as though he is trying to 'do a Steve' to Rebecca's blog.

Come back please, Rebecca, I liked your photos and family news better than your dad's preaching.

[formergothardite]

Good morning everyone

Good morning back. What happened to Rebecca?

Hope the Lord is treating you good..

Well, he doesn't exist, but I had some good coffee, does that count?

the world won't if you believe in what Jesus had done for you )

Actually Christians are treated fairly well by the world even when they are being assholes.

Have you been arguing with your spouse this morning?

No.

Children arguing and talking back to you??

Nope.

Parents arguing with the kids?

Also no.

Remember: Your spouse is not your enemy

I never thought he was.

Parents, your children are not your enemy!

I think the fact that I only had children I wanted and could care for helps me not view them as my enemy. If I had had a whole bunch of kids I didn't want and couldn't care for it would be easier to view them that way.

Children, your parents, and your siblings are not your enemy!!!

Okay

Satan is!!!!

Daleks are.

Don't blame others

Don't blame Satan or God when you act like a jerk.

In Christ; May He bless you richly!!!!!!!! Jerry

Jerry, most of the time just one "!" will do.

[Brittanicals6]

Yes, my little brother was going through a "spiritual renewal" when he overdosed on coke. I had to ID his body. It will be four years next September.

My mother still talks about how concerned my brother was with the "end times" and how "some of us" (most likely me) are living and not going to make it. My last conversation with him, he was up in arms about Obama not being born here, and not happy when I mentioned that I was going to see a friend perform at a drag show.

Not saying that religion doesn't help some people, but it sure as hell isn't a cure all. Sadly, nothing is for addiction. My 25 year old son is an addict, it breaks my heart daily, especially after seeing his uncle (tall and thin like him) dead from his addiction. There are no easy answers or fixes. It is just damn hard and heartbreak and pain.

My mother says she KNOWS my son will be ok, because she prays for him. But her own son, it was just part of God's plan for him to go home to Jesus, so the prayers still worked. The three kids he left behind may at some point disagree.

Sorry, the whole "Jesus picked me up and cured my massive addiction" thing is kind of a trigger for me. I can't tell you how many "testimonies" I have heard and just want to say stfu up to. It's dishonest, to say the least. And it gives people the illusion that they have to be actively engaged in a hard, hard battle to get well.

[mockingbird]

I wonder, in cases like Rebecca's Dad where the person doesn't just become normal religious but a fundamentalist, if they are in a sense trading one addiction for another? I just remember watching some show on addiction and one of the women became obsessed with exercise (basically spent her whole day exercising), and one of her therapists told her that she was merely "trading" addictions and for her sobriety to last she needed to commit to her treatment plan and really work on the actual addictive behaviors she was displaying. It made sense to me given how extreme she got, and I thought that might apply to fundamentalists too - but I know very little about addiction psychology, so this is all total conjecture.

[Brittanicals6]

That is a good point, Mockingbird.

[kpmom]

Jerry, most of the time just one "!" will do.

I guess now we know where Rebecca!!!!!11!!!!!! gets those exclamation points from. They're genetic.

[dpndetfarm]

I've got to say I didn't take what he wrote the way most of you did. First, we are not all great writers. Perhaps this is his best. I won't snark on a person who in my mind was simply trying to explain to us who he was and why in the best way he could.

Second, addicts die all the time no matter what path to sobriety they attempt to take. That is the sad, cold fact of the addict. For evry 7 addicts 1 will live. Addiction kills. If this man has found sobriety I don't give a flying fuck how he stays sober. If this works for him that is great! For every addict who died/killed themselves/OD'd after finding "god" there is one who did the same on some other program. There is no right or wrong path to sobriety and those of you saying there is are missinformed. Those blaming the god path on their loved ones death are blaming the wrong part of the issue. Addiction killed your loved one, not the recovery path.

Third I don't see the man as trying to convert anyone. I see him more as saying this is what saved my life and perhaps it can work for you. I suppose maybe that is trying to convert, but I took it more as a testimonial. I mean if i felt something had saved my life I might recommend it to people myself.

I guess I just see him as a man who was slowly killing himself and his family and is very happy to be alive and humbled that he still has both.

Finally as far as trading one addiction for another that is really what an addict does, they trade an "acceptable" addiction for the unacceptable one. Ever been to an AA meeting without coffee or cigarrettes? Even a therapist will, and

has at my husband's outpatient recovery program, said that the addict still needs a high and without a healthy one they will have a much harder time maintaining their sobriety.

And in case you think recovering addicts dont die using other programs, we buried my BIL almost two years ago after he hung himself in front of his 1 year old daughter. He was an atheist.

[formergothardite]

I've got to say I didn't take what he wrote the way most of you did. First, we are not all great writers. Perhaps this is his best. I won't snark on a person who in my mind was simply trying to explain to us who he was and why in the best way he could.

Second, addicts die all the time no matter what path to sobriety they attempt to take. That is the sad, cold fact of the addict. For evry 7 addicts 1 will live. Addiction kills. If this man has found sobriety I don't give a flying fuck how he stays sober. If this works for him that is great! For every addict who died/killed themselves/OD'd after finding "god" there is one who did the same on some other program. There is no right or wrong path to sobriety and those of you saying there is are missinformed. Those blaming the god path on their loved ones death are blaming the wrong part of the issue. Addiction killed your loved one, not the recovery path.

Third I don't see the man as trying to convert anyone. I see him more as saying this is what saved my life and perhaps it can work for you. I suppose maybe that is trying to convert, but I took it more as a testimonial. I mean if i felt something had saved my life I might recommend it to people myself.

I guess I just see him as a man who was slowly killing himself and his family and is very happy to be alive and humbled that he still has both.

Finally as far as trading one addiction for another that is really what an addict does, they trade an "acceptable" addiction for the unacceptable one. Ever been to an AA meeting without coffee or cigarrettes? Even a therapist will, and

has at my husband's outpatient recovery program, said that the addict still needs a high and without a healthy one they will have a much harder time maintaining their sobriety.

And in case you think recovering addicts dont die using other programs, we buried my BIL almost two years ago after he hung himself in front of his 1 year old daughter. He was an atheist.

His writing isn't the problem, it is the format that he messed up and then didn't bother to go back and fix.

And I have no doubt both of his posts are trying to convert us:

I urge you to call upon Him today for the saving

of your souls (I left this as it is on the blog instead of fixing it to show how it is his format that is the problem, not his writing skills. Don't have sentences drop off mid line and then start up on the next line. It makes it hard to read)

He removed the craving for alcohol right then

and right there! There was No 12 step classes. He has done unto me what is promised in His Word His Word, The Holy Bible!

I don't see how this can possible be saying, hey this worked for me and it might work for you but it is possible that you can call on God to remove your addiction and he won't. That there is a chance this might not work.

[dpndetfarm]

Well remember we often see what we are expecting to see. If we expect that he is trying to convert us then we will see it that way. I have no doubt that he would love it if any of us were "saved", but the meat of his post, to me, was in answer to what he sees that we think he is like. He explains that finding "god" is what changed him from being the person that fj thought/thinks he was/is. If you want to snark about that then go for it. As for me, having lived with a nasty alcoholic for almost 13 years before he finally managed to find sobriety for the last 10 years I cellabrate sobriety when I see it.

There are people out there who have woken up one morning and never taken another drink. They didnt do any program. Does that mean they are not really sober? I obviously only know what I read about this family, but from what I read he has done more than just stop drinking. He appears to be more than just a dry drunk. If religion is what he needs to stay sober than i say that's OK. It is supposed to be whatever works for you, not whatever i think should work for you.

Sorry for the rant, but this snarking on sentance structure and formatting and ignoring that this guy is and has been staying sober just gets to me. Snark on dick heads, but at least give kuddos when they are deserved.

By the way if he was posting on a nook like I am I dont blame him for not going back and trying to fix formatting etc. This thing SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!

[formergothardite]

I don't have pet fundies. It is great he is no longer a drunk. But let's not forget that this is a man who believes women are less than men, that would most likely deny women the right over their bodies, who would probably deny gay couples the ability to get married.

I'll snark on the fact that he wrote something specifically to Free Jinger and then was too lazy to fix the formatting making whatever the hell he was trying to say hard to read.

By the way, did anyone on Free Jinger think that he was currently a drunk? I certainly never viewed him as a drunk, a fundie sure, but a drunk no. So he has not changed my opinion of him at all. He doesn't even seem to understand the problem most of Free Jinger has with him and the way he is raising his daughters. His god is what changed him into the person Free Jinger is snarking on, not the other way around. It is great that he used religion to be sober. But then he used religion to raise his daughters to believe that they will never be equal to men. So no gushing over another patriarchal fundie man for me.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Agree formergothite. I am sure the family are nice...unless you're gay, not Christian (or not Christian enough!) or do anything their beliefs conflict with.

[formergothardite]

Agree formergothite. I am sure the family are nice...unless you're gay, not Christian (or not Christian enough!) or do anything their beliefs conflict with.

Or a feminist.

[dpndetfarm]

Except that we have never seen him say this. You are generalizing that because other fundies do this he does too. All we know of him is what his daughter has written and she has not written anything like what you are attributimg to him. In fact she has displayed in her writing the closest we see here to a true follower of jesus. I have not read where she has judged anyone else so if we are.to believe.he is responsible for who she is and how she acts then it follows that he is this way too. You cant have it both ways.

By the way my position here does not make him my pet fundy. I thought the definition of fundy was that they judged others and saw themselves as superior to the rest of us because of those views. I will go read again to see where this has happened. Until i read that he believes and espouses what you say he does i will reserve judgement.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I don't blame this man for being somewhat defensive. There were people who posted unkind remarks on that blog, including accusations that Rebecca's father was abusing her and her sister.

And if Rebecca's father is trying to convert people, so what? It's a fundie blog and this is what fundies do. When we visit fundie blogs, we are on their turf, so to speak. If an atheist is going to get upset every time a Christian posts a "get saved" message, then fundie blogs probably aren't the best place for that individual.

[love2scrap]

Except that we have never seen him say this. You are generalizing that because other fundies do this he does too. All we know of him is what his daughter has written and she has not written anything like what you are attributimg to him. In fact she has displayed in her writing the closest we see here to a true follower of jesus. I have not read where she has judged anyone else so if we are.to believe.he is responsible for who she is and how she acts then it follows that he is this way too. You cant have it both ways.

By the way my position here does not make him my pet fundy. I thought the definition of fundy was that they judged others and saw themselves as superior to the rest of us because of those views. I will go read again to see where this has happened. Until i read that he believes and espouses what you say he does i will reserve judgement.

agreed. it does bother me occasionally when i see generalisations on this board about fundies when we have only seen the real opinions of a few.

[lilith]

The "God is my D&A worker, sober companion and saviour in one neat package" shit is dangerous.

It also preys on very vulnerable people.

People relying on Jesus to keep them sober are incredibly vulnerable to relapse, and they will view that relapse not as a flare in their addiction but as a spiritual failure and abandonment.

That's the sort of thinking that makes people either continue to use because they think that if they want to it must mean Jesus has withdrawn his love, or just outright kill themselves.

I'm glad he's sober. He obviously hit his bottom and found god there. There's no harm in that. There is harm in telling people that Jesus will do it for them too if they just ask (cause when he doesn't they will feel rejected) and telling people that twelve step programs and rehabilitation processes are not needed and inferior to finding the IFB god.

The reason he is sober is because he made a major life change. Many many people find sobriety that way, but they are very vulnerable to losing it again the moment their new life gets hard or their old life beckons. While he's hanging out with fundie teetotallers he's probably fine. But if he loses his faith I would bet anything he loses his sobriety at the same time.

He is also ruining his daughters lives by keeping them at home decorating very amateurish looking cakes with mummy instead of allowing them to get an education, earn an income and live their lives.

He's waiting for Prince Charming to come calling for them, but by keeping them naive, uneducated, frumpy and poor he is guaranteeing that the prince won't come.

I have no doubt Rebecca is a sweet girl. But she's not what fundie boys are looking for, and Daddy won't let her explore other options. That makes him pretty abhorrent in my book.

[Guest Anonymous]

Except that we have never seen him say this. You are generalizing that because other fundies do this he does too. All we know of him is what his daughter has written and she has not written anything like what you are attributimg to him. In fact she has displayed in her writing the closest we see here to a true follower of jesus. I have not read where she has judged anyone else so if we are.to believe.he is responsible for who she is and how she acts then it follows that he is this way too. You cant have it both ways.

By the way my position here does not make him my pet fundy. I thought the definition of fundy was that they judged others and saw themselves as superior to the rest of us because of those views. I will go read again to see where this has happened. Until i read that he believes and espouses what you say he does i will reserve judgement.

I give Jerry a pass on addressing this particular post to us and sharing the gospel with us because I see it as a response to the way he and Rebecca have obviously been affected by the post made on FJ (and later on Rebecca's own blog) which suggested that Jerry had abused Rebecca, based purely on the way Rebecca looks in photographs on her blog.

I do find Jerry's other writings to be snarkable though, and I base my assertions about him on his own writings (not Rebecca's), a sample of which can be found here: http://www.amazon.com/Thoughts-From-Him ... 1466306696. We have previously discussed this on FJ, if you have a look via the search function.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I don't see much difference between AA and "Jesus recovery." In both cases, you have to believe you are powerless and that only surrendering to a higher power will help you. It seems to me that self-empowerment, not self-degradation, is the path to recovery. I'm not questioning anyone positive experiences with AA, but this is what I've gathered in my own experience and research.

For anyone who is interested in the failures of AA, this is a good place to start: http://www.orange-papers.org/

[formergothardite]

People have said really mean things about Rebecca and her dad based just on how they look, that has to hurt. But does anyone really think that if Rebecca got up this morning and told her dad that she wanted to start college, get a job, and eventual move out on her own that he would be supportive of this? Or if she said she was a lesbian? That he wouldn't use the Bible to try to guilt her into staying as a SAHD who is dependent on him?