Rebeccaeleventy's Dad's post

[prairiemuffin]

I don't see much difference between AA and "Jesus recovery." In both cases, you have to believe you are powerless and that only surrendering to a higher power will help you. It seems to me that self-empowerment, not self-degradation, is the path to recovery. I'm not questioning anyone positive experiences with AA, but this is what I've gathered in my own experience and research.

For anyone who is interested in the failures of AA, this is a good place to start: http://www.orange-papers.org/

I'm not a disciple of 12 step programs. Like Christianity, there are many different interpretations of them out there; some good, some not so great, and some twisted and majorly fucked up. No great surprise there.

What I AM a fan of, however, is at least trying to give the addict some basic knowledge and tools to understand what their addiciton is, how it works, and that they will be less successful in staying in recovery if they try to do it alone. Community is key, whether that's a 12 step program, harm reduction, or just a group of like minded friends in similar situations trying to stay clean.

Those in recovery from addiction are almost guaranteed to relapse; it's a sad but true fact. But who do you think might have a better time coping with that relapse: someone who has people to turn to and receive real time, face to face support, or someone who believes they owe their recovery to some dude in the sky who's not going to be on your speed dial?

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I'm not a disciple of 12 step programs. Like Christianity, there are many different interpretations of them out there; some good, some not so great, and some twisted and majorly fucked up. No great surprise there.

What I AM a fan of, however, is at least trying to give the addict some basic knowledge and tools to understand what their addiciton is, how it works, and that they will be less successful in staying in recovery if they try to do it alone. Community is key, whether that's a 12 step program, harm reduction, or just a group of like minded friends in similar situations trying to stay clean.

Those in recovery from addiction are almost guaranteed to relapse; it's a sad but true fact. But who do you think might have a better time coping with that relapse: someone who has people to turn to and receive real time, face to face support, or someone who believes they owe their recovery to some dude in the sky who's not going to be on your speed dial?

I think group recovery is a great idea - what I'm objecting to is the "you are powerless against alcohol and you must surrender everything to a higher power" bullshit, which is the exact same thing as the "dude in the sky". I just don't see how it is helpful for a recovering addict to believe s/he has no power. And there are secular group recovery groups. The reason AA is so much more accessible is that they've got the whole country convinced that they are the one and only cure for all addictions, to the point where AA programs can be court-ordered, so you can pretty much always find a meeting in your area.

On another topic, as far as us not having any "proof" that Rebecca's dad is a typically bad fundie dad, the fact that he has been taking her to Maxwell conferences for years is a pretty good hint - you may go to one conference as a fluke, but if you go year after year then you probably think Steve is on to something. Which pretty much inarguably makes you a BAD PARENT.

The fact that she does not have any life outside of her family at her age is another. So is the fact that for her 21st birthday, she went out and bought baby clothes. It's one thing to know at 21 that you want kids in the future, but unless you are married and/or pregnant, you are usually focusing on other things. Rebecca seems to know that she will not be doing anything but "waiting" for her future husband for the forseeable future. So I, for one, am perfectly comfortable connecting the dots on ol' Jerry in this case.

[Mama Mia]

Well remember we often see what we are expecting to see. If we expect that he is trying to convert us then we will see it that way. I have no doubt that he would love it if any of us were "saved", but the meat of his post, to me, was in answer to what he sees that we think he is like. He explains that finding "god" is what changed him from being the person that fj thought/thinks he was/is. If you want to snark about that then go for it. As for me, having lived with a nasty alcoholic for almost 13 years before he finally managed to find sobriety for the last 10 years I cellabrate sobriety when I see it.

There are people out there who have woken up one morning and never taken another drink. They didnt do any program. Does that mean they are not really sober? I obviously only know what I read about this family, but from what I read he has done more than just stop drinking. He appears to be more than just a dry drunk. If religion is what he needs to stay sober than i say that's OK. It is supposed to be whatever works for you, not whatever i think should work for you.

Sorry for the rant, but this snarking on sentance structure and formatting and ignoring that this guy is and has been staying sober just gets to me. Snark on dick heads, but at least give kuddos when they are deserved.

By the way if he was posting on a nook like I am I dont blame him for not going back and trying to fix formatting etc. This thing SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!

Seriously, if finding religion is what worked for him for sobriety - good for him. It works for a lot of people. So do 12 step programs, so does Rational Recovery, or formal treatment centers or a variety of other methods.

All methods have a really high rate of relapse. A good success rate for residential treatment programs is 33%. The residential treatment centers and AA are also filled with people talking about how their program led to there success and how they want people to join them- what is wrong with this guy sharing his story and trying to get people to try the same method ?

[nokidsmom]

I would like to say that it's great that he found a way to sobriety that worked for him but unfortunately, I can't really applaud this. His way of recovery by finding Jesus, while good for him, has not been so good for his family. He accepted a patriarchal religion that does not see his wife and daughters as equals, and through it, he has squelched any means for any of them to realize their full potential. They can only be wives and mothers, no education, no career, no life of their own. His daughters are forced to stay at home waiting for the Prince Charming that may never come all because of their restricted life. From where I see it, his recovery has come at the cost of others and in that way, he's not a good dad, sorry.

However, I will say that speculation that he has abused Rebecca based on how she looks is wrong. There's no way we can know that and it's a pretty big claim to make. Unless he posts something that definitely shows he has or thinks it's OK, or something praising the Pearls way of training as being the way to go, then I think speculation on any physical abuse should be off-limits. So I can see why he's bothered by that.

[formergothardite]

I have to say that they do seem to take really good care of their dog. So many fundies don't so I will give them credit for actually being nice to animals. After reading God's country boy's blog where he basically tortured a rabbit to death, Rebecca's blog seems nicer.

[B5SnowDog]

Sorry for the rant, but this snarking on sentance structure and formatting and ignoring that this guy is and has been staying sober just gets to me. Snark on dick heads, but at least give kuddos when they are deserved.

Tough. This is Quiver Full of Snark, not Quiver Full of Candy Coated Unicorn Farts.

[clarinetpower]

I would love to visit Quiver Full of Candy Coated Unicorn Farts. That sounds awesome! ;)

[Anxious Girl]

... So he just switched from 1 addiction to another? Correct me if I'm wrong; but that's all I'm getting. :| :think P.S: Jerry, I consider myself a spiritual Christian deist who has a Roman Catholic belief (due to my upbringing) towards Mary and Roman Catholic saints; and I don't feel that I need to be in an organized religion to feel God's presence when I need him most/am reading the Bible/praying. I'm happy with that, and I don't need you begging me to join your cult through your blog. Maybe what I'm trying to say is don't feel insulted that some people don't need to be part of a group to believe in God and Jesus and the angels. Trust me; it's possible.

Or maybe that some don't believe in a higher power and are atheists/are agnostics and don't know whether ther is a higher power or not. Or if they're not Christians who have a different spiritual belief. Or if they're of a different sect of Christianity than you and your family are. Trust me; it's possible.

[B5SnowDog]

I would love to visit Quiver Full of Candy Coated Unicorn Farts. That sounds awesome! ;)

Go past the Lake of Ruffled Griffin Feathers, make a right at the Mountain of Minotaur Manure, and then hang a left in Albuquerque.

[Jiraffe Jirl]

I have to say that they do seem to take really good care of their dog. So many fundies don't so I will give them credit for actually being nice to animals. After reading God's country boy's blog where he basically tortured a rabbit to death, Rebecca's blog seems nicer.

Imagine the fun FJ would be if instead of snarking with a side of intellectual critique, we pointed out things we do like about each fundie in comparison to other fundies. The Maxwells certainly are looking more fashionable lately. And I really like the font Lori uses to post her hate speech. The PP & Zsu do such creative crafts with their children! :roll:

Personally I think all fundies are bad news, but some are more bad then others (Animal Farm). Their redeeming qualities only look great when compared with the bottom of the barrel. I'm glad Rebeca Eleventy's dad is sober, but I'd be more glad if he was sober and not a misogynist.

[Anxious Girl]

Imagine the fun FJ would be if instead of snarking with a side of intellectual critique, we pointed out things we do like about each fundie in comparison to other fundies. The Maxwells certainly are looking more fashionable lately. And I really like the font Lori uses to post her hate speech. The PP & Zsu do such creative crafts with their children! :roll:

Personally I think all fundies are bad news, but some are more bad then others (Animal Farm). Their redeeming qualities only look great when compared with the bottom of the barrel. I'm glad Rebeca Eleventy's dad is sober, but I'd be more glad if he was sober and not a misogynist.

So we'd be the fundies' Joan Rivers? :lol: I hardly watch her; but my ma and younger brother find her hilarious for some reason. :think: