Pope's Last Speech

[Coconut Flan]

Having recently lost a neighbor at 85 who went downhill rather suddenly the last year of his life and having an 85 year old relative who is having trouble mustering the will and energy to do more than stay stuck in the lounge chair in front of the TV, I find sympathy that Benedict looks to be in the same condition.

The convent was used on a rotational basis with a different order moving in every three years or so. The nuns weren't kicked out of their permanent home although they did have to vacate early. Since they left last fall for the remodeling to begin, it seems this was indeed not a spur of the moment decision.

[Anxious Girl]

Or possibly he really feels just too old to continue? Many people were not happy at all with JP II staying Pope through his illness up to his death.

And while this pope didn't seem to be as fond of the Opus Dei as the previous one, it is still a relatively large Catholic organisation in good standing with the Church and can't be passed over all the time.

To me, there's such a thing as too much conspiracy theories.

I disagree. The last time this happened was during the schism, when Martin Luther's Protestanism started to build up and branch out into different Protestant sects. I'm not usually much for conspiracy theories, but when it comes to the Roman Catholic Church, I bet they're hiding lots of secrets (documents) that they don't want people to know about.

[Ellimenopy]

Not about his speech, but his housing. If I understand correctly, he's moving into a cloistered convent in the Vatican--and all the nuns got kicked out.

Pisses me off.

Wait, he's moving into that convent? That kind of pisses me off, too. We're not catholic or even religious, but my husband and I thought the convent in the Vatican was a very sweet tradition when we visited there last year.

Edit: I know the difference between their and there.

[Bethella]

Okay, so how long do people think Benedict will survive after he leaves the papacy? If we accept that his resignation was due to age/health issues there is a very real chance that those will catch up with him quickly; especially if the job is what has been keeping him going these last few months/years.* If we accept some version of the conspiracy theories he knows to much and the hidden shadow powers will need to remove him so he can't blab. Overall, I'm guessing he won't make it a year from his resignation.

*For example my maternal grandmother had three goals her last year: to make it to her 95th birthday in November, to make it to Christmas and to make it to New Years- she died the day after New Years.

[Dandruff]

He gave just a few weeks notice to leave a job he was expected to do for the rest of his life. There has to be a good reason.

[mg78]

Does anyone else think its interesting that Opus Dei was involved? I mean just from my past dealings with them i think that its rather interesting...i didn't think they had that level of influence with this pope?

Well, from my own dealings with the OPus Dei, I find interesting that they were named in te newspaper.Usually members do not tell they are part of te organization. The Opus is a very wealthy organization and they have close ties with the Vatican. An example is the canonization of Josemaria Escriva, the founder of the OPus. As far as I (but this was just gossip) there was not a real reason for this man to be canonized, just the Opus wanted it.

Edited for clarity.

[mockingbird]

I don't know if I believe any of the conspiracy theories for sure, but I kind-of want there to be more to this besides him just retiring from old age. Not that I want to see corruption, or anything, but I do think the Catholic church needs to be reformed, and unfortunately a huge scandal might be what it needs to get that going. I have just seen WAY too much lip-service from priests and others in any position of power within the church and I feel like if there has not been a huge movement to reform (or split) by now, it's not going to happen without some huge external motivating factor. I have been Catholic all my life and the overall atmosphere of my local church was very accepting and loving, and the Jesuit university I went to was the same. I felt betrayed when my university came out with a statement about birth control at our teaching hospital because I didn't know any Jesuit there who would have denied BC to a woman or helped her in another way. It was so obviously put out so that we could keep our funding and that disgusted me. At the same time this was going on my roommate was going to church and getting a lot of support from one of the Jesuits after her mother had died - my roommate was a lesbian but never once did she hear that she was sinning, couldn't receive communion, or anything stupid like that. Just support for her grief. My roommate actually got *more* into Catholicism because of this experience. I know there is already a lot of corruption, but I think there are also a lot of good priests out there who would support a reformed church (including *all* of the issues we discuss here: women priests, appropriate consequences for those who abuse, more transparency, updated theology on sexuality and BC/abortion, etc) if any of them just had the courage to get off their butts and start something. And yeah, I think it's going to have to be a group of priests, because it's such an old boys' club right now. People have already left the church in droves and that didn't do much.

ETA: Wow, I have not been able to voice just exactly how I feel about my religion until now. I have not been to church since the birth control statement came out. I live in a Bible Belt-y area and get asked about my religion semi-frequently, and have never been able to articulate plainly what I believe or how I feel about religion. I never wanted to say I was Catholic, because I didn't want to seem like I supported their political crap, but I also don't feel like I have lost faith or that I really want to join another denomination (at the moment). I knew I was angry about some things but didn't know how to describe that within the context of my personal beliefs. What I feel is betrayed. Thanks FJ!

[Cran]

I disagree. The last time this happened was during the schism, when Martin Luther's Protestanism started to build up and branch out into different Protestant sects. I'm not usually much for conspiracy theories, but when it comes to the Roman Catholic Church, I bet they're hiding lots of secrets (documents) that they don't want people to know about.

Sorry, but this is just plain wrong. The last and until Benedikt XVI.only pope to step down was Coelestin V. in 1294, long before the reformation.

[Megan]

Sorry, but this is just plain wrong. The last and until Benedikt XVI.only pope to step down was Coelestin V. in 1294, long before the reformation.

I think AnxiousGirl was combining Gregory XII, who had to resign due to the antipopes, with the counterreformation. Gregory XII was the century prior to the reformation, though the antipope craziness certainly was part of the corruption Luther addressed. He technically stepped down but the media isn't counting it because it wasn't voluntary.

re: not conspiracy. Benedict has difficulty controlling the Vatican as it is. He didn't consolidate power. If he's weak, he won't be able to keep things under control the way JPII did when he was ill (I've heard there were even calls for JPII to step down towards the end... I was in HS at the time, not sure). If he were better at the political side of things, I'd be suspicious. Right now I think he saw control slipping away anyway and just gave it up.

[Eliowy]

Well, from my own dealings with the OPus Dei, I find interesting that they were named in the newspaper.Usually members do not tell they are part of the organization. The Opus is a very wealthy organization and they have close ties with the Vatican. An example is the canonization of Josemaria Escriva, the founder of the OPus. As far as I (but this was just gossip) there was not a real reason for this man to be canonized, just the Opus wanted it.

Edited for clarity.

It was more the naming of them that surprised me as well. usually they work more behind the scenes. This was just gossip as well but supposedly they were also one of the driving forces behind getting John Paul II beatified so quickly. I was just under the impression that they were a behind the scenes group and to be publicly id'd isn't the norm.

[Diana]

Im watching the pope leaving in the helicopter, a historic moment! and now starts the process to choose the new one

[YPestis]

I'm not one for conspiracies myself. Not even Catholic ones. The guy is 85 and has health issues. Remember when JPII was sick near the end? The church was unable to deal with anything with an invalid Pope. Frankly, the Catholic Church really needs a strong, forceful Pope who can consolidate power, clean up corruption and push for reforms. An old Pope can't do that. They need a young Pope with new ideas and years of good health.

I think Benedict did the right thing by stepping down realizing he can no longer serve the church. The Pope is often referred to as a king, but I hope they turn it into a presidency. Kings must die before they can leave office. Presidents can step down.

[Lillybee]

Mockingbird, I left the Catholic Church for the same reason you did. I remember my pastor saying not to worry about over population in Latin America because Jesus would just repeat the miracle of the loaves and the fishes and that made me walk out.

They say that they want the next pope to be a reformer but I remember (this may be a conspiracy theory) that Pope John Paul the First died only a month after being elected. He was elected during the Vatican bank problems and the issues with Masons in the upper levels of the Church. There were more than a few who thought that he was murdered because he was a reformer.

[Evilbad]

I saw him last year and two before that. The decline in his physical health was noticeable, even from a distance in a crowd. He could barely get up and down stairs by himself, and looked incredibly frail.

I don't think there's much more to this than exactly what they're putting out there. He is old, frail, and his health seems to have taken a sharp turn for the worse. Could you imagine being a head of the church with failing health? Look at what 4 years as a US president does to people. Travel is exhausting and I'm just 32. In my 80's? Screw that.

I've always heard he never wanted to be pope, and was very much a background worker.

[Savoring Samsara]

I went to high school with a beautiful young man who took vows. A friend referred to him as "Father What a Waste."

I think I've heard others use that expression before. It's a good one. :D

When I was backpacking in Italy I bought this amazing calendar at a souvenir shop that can only be described as a "hot priests calendar." It's (G-rated) glamour shots of young, attractive Italian priests in their religious garb; I think it was meant to be some kind of fundraiser item. I wonder how long they had to look to find 12 priests who were that hot. -+That thing is still hanging on my wall despite the fact that it's like 10 years out of date now. It's way too funny to take down.

[Hane]

I think I've heard others use that expression before. It's a good one. :D

When I was backpacking in Italy I bought this amazing calendar at a souvenir shop that can only be described as a "hot priests calendar." It's (G-rated) glamour shots of young, attractive Italian priests in their religious garb; I think it was meant to be some kind of fundraiser item. I wonder how long they had to look to find 12 priests who were that hot. -+That thing is still hanging on my wall despite the fact that it's like 10 years out of date now. It's way too funny to take down.

If they'd gone to Assisi, it wouldn't have taken long at all. When I was there a few years ago, I was astounded at the huge numbers of young (and gorgeous) nuns and priests I saw there.